Special Blend + Nite-Out II for the start - how to dose them?

martin87 · 09/24/2018, 02:51 PM

Hi there :-)
Three day ago I filled my tank with saltwater and added start-dose of Special Blend, yesterday I added start-dose of Nite-Out II... what next?

Instructions seem to be clear but more I read more confused I am.

Fist; According to Nite-Out II manual on box I should dose 5ml per 40l every two day.

But; According Microbe-Lift FQA I've found on the Internet they recommend dosing of Nite-Out II only one or two days after the application of MICROBE-LIFT® special blend so that it can only do its work.

So; the difference between those two manual is quite wide - every 2 days or every 7 day (special blend should be dose once a week)

Moreover; dosage of these products, for saltwater aquarium, should be increased of 25% to 50% but on the other hand… they says if you are using two bacterial products that dosage of the second should be decreased of 50%. So.. I should dose 5 or 7,5 ml per 40l of Nite-Out II?

Nevertheless; Another advice from them says: you should dose Nite-Out II as long as ammonia is at detective level but in their leaflet they says that Nite-Out II 'bacteria need 5 to 6 weeks to propagates enough to establish clean and non-toxic system. Should I dose them for 5 to six week?

My question is directed to people who started on this products. Please help me make it simple. Best regards. Martin from Poland.

Akram · 09/24/2018, 05:11 PM

Hello Martin,

You should stop using special blend.
Read here in this forum about cycling a new tank. The “nite-out” product is ok, but there’s better options out there.

You need to cycle your tank.

mcgyvr · 09/24/2018, 06:09 PM

To make it simple dont use the special blend .It seems to be for established systems...Then just pour half the bottle of the other into the tank and just let it go for 4-6 weeks..

Akram · 09/24/2018, 06:36 PM

Thanks mcgyvr!

Also, buy some ammonia and pour it in your tank, if you don’t have fish already.

martin87 · 09/25/2018, 12:34 AM

Thanks for you answers but it seems that outside UE Microbe-Lift and their products are not popular; Special Blend is accurate also for the start and it is a quality product. Have you ever heard about these stinky bottle? That stinks as hell? My concerns are about dosing of Nite-Out II when you are already using Special Blend. My advice is that you should not give advice on products you have never used. Moreover I paid for that bottles and I will not throw them to trash because someone on the Internet told my to do this.

martin87 · 09/25/2018, 12:40 AM

https://www.google.pl/url?sa=i&rct=j...37943986544942

homer1475 · 09/25/2018, 03:44 AM

You do realize the microbes in those bottles will populate on their own given time?

Dose those bottles for 5 to 6 weeks? You can cycle a tank with pure ammonia in that amount of time.

While they may be decent products, what they do will happen on its own given the proper amount of time.

martin87 · 09/25/2018, 05:43 AM

I sent my question to the company and wait for the respond. No further golden advice needed in this thread.

mcgyvr · 09/25/2018, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin87

Thanks for you answers but it seems that outside UE Microbe-Lift and their products are not popular; Special Blend is accurate also for the start and it is a quality product. Have you ever heard about these stinky bottle? That stinks as hell? My concerns are about dosing of Nite-Out II when you are already using Special Blend. My advice is that you should not give advice on products you have never used. Moreover I paid for that bottles and I will not throw them to trash because someone on the Internet told my to do this.

Virtually identical products are sold all over the world and while we may not have experience with that particular product many of us have used similar products in the past..
They are just bacterial strains in a bottle.. Microbe-Lifts products are just like all the rest..
Special blend does claim to have a "rotten egg" smell associated with it (hydrogen sulfide) too..
With all of those products there is really no need to overly complicate the process.. You simply dump some in and go on with your day..
They just try to make it seem fancy/advanced with some specific dosage process.. There is absolutely no need to over complicate it or do anything but dump it in the tank and wait for the bacterial strains to awaken from suspension and start propagating.

Many of us also have enough experience to know that those products are really not needed at all as the same bacterial strains will propagate on their own without needing to dose anything. Many of us "naturally" cycle our tanks with no additions of anything in a bottle.. Just a small introduction of some flake food for a few days or bringing in a rock from another established system and many other ways are all thats needed..

So keep it simple.. Dump the bottles into the tank and monitor the cycling process and once your ammonia and nitrite levels are back down to zero you can perform water changes as needed to reduce nitrate levels and start stocking the tank..

And please relax.. You seemed to go on the defense rather quickly about the advice given to you.. Users here are just trying to help and while the advice may not be what you expected its still valid advice..

homer1475 · 09/25/2018, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin87

Thanks for you answers but it seems that outside UE Microbe-Lift and their products are not popular; Special Blend is accurate also for the start and it is a quality product. Have you ever heard about these stinky bottle? That stinks as hell? My concerns are about dosing of Nite-Out II when you are already using Special Blend. My advice is that you should not give advice on products you have never used. Moreover I paid for that bottles and I will not throw them to trash because someone on the Internet told my to do this.

Why come here for advice then? When given proper advice on these product(no we have never used these specific products, but there are many just like it), you disregard it because its not the advice you want to hear.

martin87 · 09/25/2018, 08:33 AM

Quote:

My question is directed to people who started on this products.

as I had written in my first post.

Why here? Because Reef Central is dedicated to anyone and here for sure are more active users than anywhere else. And for the second - forums are in English.

btw humer1475 have you ever searched for a very specific information outside your homeland using non-native language? dont think so…

I am disregard because I put some effort on writing to you for a specific information but instead of an answer I received golden advice I do not need.

Over and out.

homer1475 · 09/25/2018, 09:02 AM

You received solid advise but disregarded it because it was not what you wanted to hear. Simple as that.

This right here is the best information any seasoned reefer will give you on these types of products, but again you disregard it because it does not contain information that you want to hear, and we didn't use your specific product.......But almost all these bacteria in a bottle products are basically the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Virtually identical products are sold all over the world and while we may not have experience with that particular product many of us have used similar products in the past..
They are just bacterial strains in a bottle.. Microbe-Lifts products are just like all the rest..
Special blend does claim to have a "rotten egg" smell associated with it (hydrogen sulfide) too..
With all of those products there is really no need to overly complicate the process.. You simply dump some in and go on with your day..
They just try to make it seem fancy/advanced with some specific dosage process.. There is absolutely no need to over complicate it or do anything but dump it in the tank and wait for the bacterial strains to awaken from suspension and start propagating.

Many of us also have enough experience to know that those products are really not needed at all as the same bacterial strains will propagate on their own without needing to dose anything. Many of us "naturally" cycle our tanks with no additions of anything in a bottle.. Just a small introduction of some flake food for a few days or bringing in a rock from another established system and many other ways are all thats needed..

So keep it simple.. Dump the bottles into the tank and monitor the cycling process and once your ammonia and nitrite levels are back down to zero you can perform water changes as needed to reduce nitrate levels and start stocking the tank..

And please relax.. You seemed to go on the defense rather quickly about the advice given to you.. Users here are just trying to help and while the advice may not be what you expected its still valid advice..

And there is a more popular reef forum, but you will not find a more set of seasoned reefers who are willing to help anyone then over here. And yes we do actually try to help people not just give them advice on cr*p they want to dump into their tanks when nature will do it on it's own, and make you buy stuff thats totally not needed.

homer1475 · 09/25/2018, 09:10 AM

From their own website:

MICROBE-LIFT/Nite-Out II is designed specifically for aquarium waters that contain marine life. Its highly-specialized microbial consortium of nitrifying cultures are specially formulated to eliminate ammonia via a natural biological process termed nitrification. The cultures contain in MICROBE-LIFT/Nite-Out II will establish, promote or stabilize and maintain nitrification in aquarium waters, eliminating the toxic effect of ammonia. MICROBE-LIFT/Nite-Out II liquid nitrifying bacteria contains select strains of Nitrosomonas, Nitrospira and Nitrobacter. Nitrosomonas oxidize ammonia to nitrite and Nitrobacter and Nitrospira oxidize nitrite to nitrate.

Bacteria in a bottle, same as Dr Tim's one and only, Seachem stability, and countless others.

FWIW this product is made in the USA. It's just not as popular because most of us know better then to buy snake oil, or use a product that nature will do on it's own given time.

jlmawp · 09/25/2018, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin87

My advice is that you should not give advice on products you have never used. Moreover I paid for that bottles and I will not throw them to trash because someone on the Internet told my to do this.

Huh, you came looking for advice, but ended up trying to give it.

I think maybe you should just move on to another place, because your attitude and frame of mind does not align with the folks on this forum. You clearly wanted confirmation of your already-made decision, not actual advice.

Akram · 09/25/2018, 10:16 AM

It’s a cultural thing with this guy, he asked a question, he expected the answer for his specific question. Very common in Northern Europe.

Here in the US. We take pride in what we do, and share all we have to make you successful.
Answering your original question is a matter of math, and we won’t just answer it and let you fail.

I’m from the Mediterranean, and lived here for 11 years and I know what you’re experiencing. Don’t be stuck up, just open up a bit.

martin87 · 09/25/2018, 10:29 AM

I received an e-mail from the Company. The problem is solved.

Follow the directions on the bottle. Keep in mind, these are live bacteria, f there are no sources of organic waste or, in the case of Nite Out II, ammonia, the bacteria will die. These products are intended to be added for the first time when fish, corals or uncured live rock are introduced to the aquarium.
As long as there are sources of organics and ammonia, the two products can be dosed at the same time. Special Blend can then be added according to the dosing schedule on the box. After adding the Nite Out II, monitor the ammonia, if the levels haven’t dropped in 24 hours add another dose. You can dose Nite Out II daily if need be until the ammonia and nitrite are under control. Typically, it only takes one or two doses. Once the system has cycled you can add Nite Out II once a month, or just put it away (storing it in the refrigerator is best) until you add more fish, or encounter an ammonia spike.
Since the bacteria work more slowly in saltwater it is recommended to increase the dosage by at least 20%. You can’t overdose with these products, so don’t be concerned about adding a little extra.

Scott Berke
National Sales Manager
Ecological Laboratories, Inc.
North, Central and South America, Caribbean
Lawn & Garden ~ Pond ~ Hydroponics ~ Aquarium

Akram · 09/25/2018, 10:38 AM

you’re just using this app for the sake of using it. why didn’t you just do that in the first place?

We all told you the same information in the first place.

If you don’t trust information given to you in this forum, then that’s just an insult; and you should just delete your account.

martin87 · 09/25/2018, 11:32 AM

No you didn't.
I expected sth like that:

Quote:

Hey, I was using these product, just follow the instruction on the Nite-Out bottle and don't care abut Special Blend

or

Quote:

I was measuring my ammonia and stopped dosing Nite-Out II when the test showed 0 - do the same

or

Quote:

You have found wrong FQA do not follow it. you can add Special Blend and Nite-Out at the sam day, nothing wrong happen.

or

Quote:

Use these products according to instructions on the bottles but consider buying this and that product because here in US this and that is the most popular/known/famous and people use this and that with great success.

or

Quote:

Do not use Nite-Out II because I was using it and did not work, I had been to buy other bacteria to start the aquarium.

or

Quote:

Give us more details because we don't know this company much and we use different bacteria...

or

Quote:

I added only one dose of Nite-Out II and ammonia decreased to undetectable level. You don't have to dosing it every two days or ever seven.

or

Quote:

I was dosing Nite-Out every two days and after two weeks I had a bacterial flocks so be careful...

I was expecting everything else that I was given.

homer1475 · 09/25/2018, 01:16 PM

The problem is.... Most of us don't use bacteria in a bottle, and you were given that information but failed to listen to it.

All you have to do is give the tank an ammonia source and the cycle will take care of itself without the bottled bacteria(waste of money IMO). Yes some do work, but for the very short time it shaves off a normal cycle they are not worth it in my eyes.

The main problem is we live in an instant society and no one knows what it means to slow down and wait for nature to take its course. Everyone wants everything RIGHT NOW!!! If this hobby teaches you one thing, its patience. If you don't learn that, then your tank unfortunately will fail.

martin87 · 09/25/2018, 02:20 PM

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Above image shows how my tank looks like today. I used Real Reef Rock, however while is have been shipped to Europe and than to Poland from probably Holland the rock had dried out. This shows you the typical problem how hard it to establish and than maintain reef aquarium in such a country like Poland... I cured the rock with RO/di water for about a week with very strong circulation. I had to do this because I noticed some parts of dried US newspapers that every single piece were covered with. In my opinion adding some bottled bacteria was necessary. Maybe if I would leave in US my thinking would be the same as yours...

jlmawp · 09/25/2018, 02:38 PM

I think we are close to talking about the same thing here, but we are all misinterpreting eachother.

We aren't saying those bottled bacteria products don't work. Some of them do, and do work well. However, we don't know about this specific product you have asked about.

What we DO know to work every single time, is to allow the rock/tank to cycle by natural means. This means adding ammonia whether via a pure source, like from a bottle...or by letting a piece of shrimp or other seafood meat decompose for some time in the tank. Bacteria will grow and multiply rapidly in this ammonia-rich environment, and will establish the base of the nitrogen-cycle in your tank. This process takes longer, but is a "tried and true" method with very little possibility for error.

This is heavily recommended over the bottled products for a few different reasons:

- We don't know what else is in that bottle
- A lot of times, people who use those products are often looking for a "shortcut" to getting a tank up and running, and end up putting fish and other animals at risk because the cycle doesn't complete, despite the claims of the product.
- The natural cycling method is slower, and is a good lesson for those with new tanks to be patient and allow nature to take its course. It's a universal lesson when it comes to reef tanks. If this is your first tank, I would take this as the most important part of what all of these people are trying to tell you.

All of that being said, you came to this thread and forum with a combative attitude. What did you expect to happen? These folks are always here to help, first and foremost, and would not lead you astray or be difficult just to do so. The things they suggest are for good reason. We would love you to stay on the forum, but you need to be able to accept criticism and suggestions a lot better than you have in this thread.

Best of luck. The tank looks very nice, and I hope things go well for you.

09/24/2018, 02:51 PM	#1
martin87 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Poland Posts: 12	Special Blend + Nite-Out II for the start - how to dose them? Hi there :-) Three day ago I filled my tank with saltwater and added start-dose of Special Blend, yesterday I added start-dose of Nite-Out II... what next? Instructions seem to be clear but more I read more confused I am. Fist; According to Nite-Out II manual on box I should dose 5ml per 40l every two day. But; According Microbe-Lift FQA I've found on the Internet they recommend dosing of Nite-Out II only one or two days after the application of MICROBE-LIFT® special blend so that it can only do its work. So; the difference between those two manual is quite wide - every 2 days or every 7 day (special blend should be dose once a week) Moreover; dosage of these products, for saltwater aquarium, should be increased of 25% to 50% but on the other hand… they says if you are using two bacterial products that dosage of the second should be decreased of 50%. So.. I should dose 5 or 7,5 ml per 40l of Nite-Out II? Nevertheless; Another advice from them says: you should dose Nite-Out II as long as ammonia is at detective level but in their leaflet they says that Nite-Out II 'bacteria need 5 to 6 weeks to propagates enough to establish clean and non-toxic system. Should I dose them for 5 to six week? My question is directed to people who started on this products. Please help me make it simple. Best regards. Martin from Poland.

09/24/2018, 06:09 PM	#3
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	To make it simple dont use the special blend .It seems to be for established systems...Then just pour half the bottle of the other into the tank and just let it go for 4-6 weeks.. __________________ Who me?

09/25/2018, 03:44 AM	#7
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	You do realize the microbes in those bottles will populate on their own given time? Dose those bottles for 5 to 6 weeks? You can cycle a tank with pure ammonia in that amount of time. While they may be decent products, what they do will happen on its own given the proper amount of time. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

09/25/2018, 09:10 AM	#13
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	From their own website: MICROBE-LIFT/Nite-Out II is designed specifically for aquarium waters that contain marine life. Its highly-specialized microbial consortium of nitrifying cultures are specially formulated to eliminate ammonia via a natural biological process termed nitrification. The cultures contain in MICROBE-LIFT/Nite-Out II will establish, promote or stabilize and maintain nitrification in aquarium waters, eliminating the toxic effect of ammonia. MICROBE-LIFT/Nite-Out II liquid nitrifying bacteria contains select strains of Nitrosomonas, Nitrospira and Nitrobacter. Nitrosomonas oxidize ammonia to nitrite and Nitrobacter and Nitrospira oxidize nitrite to nitrate. Bacteria in a bottle, same as Dr Tim's one and only, Seachem stability, and countless others. FWIW this product is made in the USA. It's just not as popular because most of us know better then to buy snake oil, or use a product that nature will do on it's own given time. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

09/25/2018, 01:16 PM	#19
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	The problem is.... Most of us don't use bacteria in a bottle, and you were given that information but failed to listen to it. All you have to do is give the tank an ammonia source and the cycle will take care of itself without the bottled bacteria(waste of money IMO). Yes some do work, but for the very short time it shaves off a normal cycle they are not worth it in my eyes. The main problem is we live in an instant society and no one knows what it means to slow down and wait for nature to take its course. Everyone wants everything RIGHT NOW!!! If this hobby teaches you one thing, its patience. If you don't learn that, then your tank unfortunately will fail. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

09/24/2018, 05:11 PM	#2
Akram Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 72	Hello Martin, You should stop using special blend. Read here in this forum about cycling a new tank. The “nite-out” product is ok, but there’s better options out there. You need to cycle your tank.

09/24/2018, 06:36 PM	#4
Akram Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 72	Thanks mcgyvr! Also, buy some ammonia and pour it in your tank, if you don’t have fish already.

09/25/2018, 12:34 AM	#5
martin87 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Poland Posts: 12	Thanks for you answers but it seems that outside UE Microbe-Lift and their products are not popular; Special Blend is accurate also for the start and it is a quality product. Have you ever heard about these stinky bottle? That stinks as hell? My concerns are about dosing of Nite-Out II when you are already using Special Blend. My advice is that you should not give advice on products you have never used. Moreover I paid for that bottles and I will not throw them to trash because someone on the Internet told my to do this.

09/25/2018, 12:40 AM	#6
martin87 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Poland Posts: 12	https://www.google.pl/url?sa=i&rct=j...37943986544942

09/25/2018, 05:43 AM	#8
martin87 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Poland Posts: 12	I sent my question to the company and wait for the respond. No further golden advice needed in this thread.

09/25/2018, 10:16 AM	#15
Akram Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 72	It’s a cultural thing with this guy, he asked a question, he expected the answer for his specific question. Very common in Northern Europe. Here in the US. We take pride in what we do, and share all we have to make you successful. Answering your original question is a matter of math, and we won’t just answer it and let you fail. I’m from the Mediterranean, and lived here for 11 years and I know what you’re experiencing. Don’t be stuck up, just open up a bit.

09/25/2018, 10:29 AM	#16
martin87 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Poland Posts: 12	I received an e-mail from the Company. The problem is solved. Follow the directions on the bottle. Keep in mind, these are live bacteria, f there are no sources of organic waste or, in the case of Nite Out II, ammonia, the bacteria will die. These products are intended to be added for the first time when fish, corals or uncured live rock are introduced to the aquarium. As long as there are sources of organics and ammonia, the two products can be dosed at the same time. Special Blend can then be added according to the dosing schedule on the box. After adding the Nite Out II, monitor the ammonia, if the levels haven’t dropped in 24 hours add another dose. You can dose Nite Out II daily if need be until the ammonia and nitrite are under control. Typically, it only takes one or two doses. Once the system has cycled you can add Nite Out II once a month, or just put it away (storing it in the refrigerator is best) until you add more fish, or encounter an ammonia spike. Since the bacteria work more slowly in saltwater it is recommended to increase the dosage by at least 20%. You can’t overdose with these products, so don’t be concerned about adding a little extra. Scott Berke National Sales Manager Ecological Laboratories, Inc. North, Central and South America, Caribbean Lawn & Garden ~ Pond ~ Hydroponics ~ Aquarium

09/25/2018, 10:38 AM	#17
Akram Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 72	you’re just using this app for the sake of using it. why didn’t you just do that in the first place? We all told you the same information in the first place. If you don’t trust information given to you in this forum, then that’s just an insult; and you should just delete your account.

09/25/2018, 02:20 PM	#20
martin87 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Poland Posts: 12	[IMG][/IMG] Above image shows how my tank looks like today. I used Real Reef Rock, however while is have been shipped to Europe and than to Poland from probably Holland the rock had dried out. This shows you the typical problem how hard it to establish and than maintain reef aquarium in such a country like Poland... I cured the rock with RO/di water for about a week with very strong circulation. I had to do this because I noticed some parts of dried US newspapers that every single piece were covered with. In my opinion adding some bottled bacteria was necessary. Maybe if I would leave in US my thinking would be the same as yours...

09/25/2018, 02:38 PM	#21
jlmawp Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 595	I think we are close to talking about the same thing here, but we are all misinterpreting eachother. We aren't saying those bottled bacteria products don't work. Some of them do, and do work well. However, we don't know about this specific product you have asked about. What we DO know to work every single time, is to allow the rock/tank to cycle by natural means. This means adding ammonia whether via a pure source, like from a bottle...or by letting a piece of shrimp or other seafood meat decompose for some time in the tank. Bacteria will grow and multiply rapidly in this ammonia-rich environment, and will establish the base of the nitrogen-cycle in your tank. This process takes longer, but is a "tried and true" method with very little possibility for error. This is heavily recommended over the bottled products for a few different reasons: - We don't know what else is in that bottle - A lot of times, people who use those products are often looking for a "shortcut" to getting a tank up and running, and end up putting fish and other animals at risk because the cycle doesn't complete, despite the claims of the product. - The natural cycling method is slower, and is a good lesson for those with new tanks to be patient and allow nature to take its course. It's a universal lesson when it comes to reef tanks. If this is your first tank, I would take this as the most important part of what all of these people are trying to tell you. All of that being said, you came to this thread and forum with a combative attitude. What did you expect to happen? These folks are always here to help, first and foremost, and would not lead you astray or be difficult just to do so. The things they suggest are for good reason. We would love you to stay on the forum, but you need to be able to accept criticism and suggestions a lot better than you have in this thread. Best of luck. The tank looks very nice, and I hope things go well for you.