Mixing Dwarf Angels

marleesan · 10/18/2016, 06:24 PM

I am setting up a 90 gallon and was wondering if I can have two dwarf angels. I currently have a cherub angel (1") and would add the second angel (flame) about 4 months after the cherub angel. Is this possible?

Bobbitworm13 · 10/18/2016, 06:32 PM

I've never done it before but I've seen people with 30 and 40 gallon tanks do it so I would think so. Maybe get some light diffuser and split the tank in half and let them get used to each other.

Half Vaped · 10/18/2016, 08:38 PM

It's possible, but could end horribly for one or both fish. I had a Flame Angel for less than a month when I introduced a Coral Beauty in an acclimation box for about a week. No aggression at all while the Coral Beauty was in the box.

As soon as I released the Coral Beauty, the Flame started attacking it relentlessly and it went into hiding in the rocks. I never saw the Coral Beauty again. That was in a 150G. The Flame got along with everything else, though.

I never had a Cherub, but I read that they, too, can be pretty nasty. I think you're doing the right thing by putting the Cherub in first since it's smaller. Maybe try a larger Flame, use an acclimation box and be ready to catch one of them, if needed. I also find that heavy, frequent feedings can reduce aggression in many fish.

Angel101 · 10/19/2016, 05:33 AM

Some people constantly repeat received wisdom and say, oh no it cannot be done, when in fact it can. I have three in a two foot cube. A Flame, a Cherub and a Golden and have never had any problems with aggression.

ntropics · 10/19/2016, 08:09 AM

I had a bicolor, coral beauty, and rusty angel in a 180. Never had any problem with aggression either.

scooter31707 · 10/19/2016, 08:51 AM

Had a Flame and a half-back in a 120 that every time they saw each other it was on, lip-locking and everything until my tang would come and break it up. I would not recommend it in a 90, especially with those two which can be jerks.

silentstorm · 10/19/2016, 01:37 PM

While people have done it in the past - doesn't mean its going to work each time...cause it really comes down to the individual fish. But I personally wouldn't push it in a 90 gallon ...
My experience is, its worked for me in my 180 gallon - I did start out with issues which lasted for few weeks - tried everything to catching one & finally before I toredown the tank to get them out - they settled!

On the other hand, if you definitely want to test the waters - I would introduce the flame 2nd as you planned (if he is bigger than the cherub) / same size, would think about introducing together (which has worked for most).

ca1ore · 10/19/2016, 04:41 PM

I have kept multiple dwarf Angels together in all sorts of sized tanks. Some combinations ended badly, but most learned to live together mostly peacefully. The key in sucessfully acclimatizing any new fish to a community tank is to ensure the fish is in good condition. Expecting a new fish suffering from the stress of being caught and shipped to then survive the initial hazing process, is the ultimate in stupidity IME. I put all new fish though many weeks of QT, for disease certainly, but also to ensure that they have regained their appetite and a healthy weight. Doesn't guarantee success, but sure increases the odds.

fishfreak2009 · 10/19/2016, 09:34 PM

If they are added at the same time that generally helps quite a bit. I have a flame, 2 coral beauties, and a lemonpeel in my tank, as well as a baby Koran and a baby regal. Everyone gets along pretty well, only occasional nipping between the coral beauty pair. In my old 180 I had a nox, a bicolor, a lemonpeel, 2 coral beauties, a Potter's, a regal, a Koran, and a juvenile emperor and didn't have any issues.

Lots of food and lots of rock kept everyone happy. Rearranging the rocks upon adding to the tank and having a mirror helps as well. I always suggest trying to find small females. They fit better in a pecking order.

zooman72 · 10/22/2016, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

I have kept multiple dwarf Angels together in all sorts of sized tanks. Some combinations ended badly, but most learned to live together mostly peacefully. The key in sucessfully acclimatizing any new fish to a community tank is to ensure the fish is in good condition. Expecting a new fish suffering from the stress of being caught and shipped to then survive the initial hazing process, is the ultimate in stupidity IME. I put all new fish though many weeks of QT, for disease certainly, but also to ensure that they have regained their appetite and a healthy weight. Doesn't guarantee success, but sure increases the odds.

Simon hits the nail on the head here with this...

I have also found (as has been mentioned) that adding larger ones after smaller ones are established is preferable, or at least adding smaller ones together at the same time...

hogfanreefer · 10/22/2016, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

i have kept multiple dwarf angels together in all sorts of sized tanks. Some combinations ended badly, but most learned to live together mostly peacefully. The key in sucessfully acclimatizing any new fish to a community tank is to ensure the fish is in good condition. Expecting a new fish suffering from the stress of being caught and shipped to then survive the initial hazing process, is the ultimate in stupidity ime. I put all new fish though many weeks of qt, for disease certainly, but also to ensure that they have regained their appetite and a healthy weight. Doesn't guarantee success, but sure increases the odds.

+1

ThRoewer · 10/22/2016, 12:33 PM

Close relatives may form mixed harems. For example Centropyge aurantonotus and Centropyge argi are known for this where their distribution areas overlap in the South Caribbean.

The other option would be to go for species that are as far related as possible and have very different color schemes and behaviors.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

skeeter2134 · 10/22/2016, 01:47 PM

I have three dwarf angels in a 125 gallon reef. Bicolor, Flame and Potter's. The first two have been in the tank for about two years. The potter's is the smallest and this probably caused the flame to check him out but did't feel threatened. All three doing well.

Cancun · 10/22/2016, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marleesan

I am setting up a 90 gallon and was wondering if I can have two dwarf angels. I currently have a cherub angel (1") and would add the second angel (flame) about 4 months after the cherub angel. Is this possible?

I have to agree....it depends on the individual fish. Can it be done...sure. Bit what might work for some may not work for you and vise versa....I have never had any luck mixing dwarfs in my 4ft 80 gallon....it always ended bad....even adding at the same time...rearranging the live rock....the mirror trick...so now I only keep one dwarf angel. I won't try two again.

Kremis · 10/22/2016, 02:32 PM

Depends on the individual like said above. Could end up great, could result in death of either the flame angel or cherub

Frogmanx82 · 10/17/2017, 08:21 PM

Whenever you buy a fish there is a chance it won’t make it and even with QT a chance you will introduce something bad in the tank. Every purchase is a risk. I have a Flame but am really considering a cherub. To me the upside is with it. Just like the 4 clowns I have that weren’t supposed to mame it together.

ReefTeacher · 10/19/2017, 11:37 AM

I have mixed dwarf angels many times...but more timid species, Golden, midnight, coral beauties.

The cherub, C. argi, I had a great deal of experience with, and one of my students even tried to form a harem of them. They are tiny, but they are beasts! I have seen them attack an Emperor at least 10 times its size....and intimidate him! It was trying to inflict "death by 1000 cuts!" I would be very cautious about putting other angels in with them. Just watch carefully, if they make it through the first few days, usually the battle is won.

cwschoon · 03/16/2018, 10:11 AM

I am dripping in a Coral Beauty for my 120 mixed reef now. I have a ton of rock and hope all will be well with my Flame Angel. The new Beauty is larger than the Flame.

KU Ned · 07/20/2018, 10:43 AM

How did the new Coral Beauty work out?

cwschoon · 07/21/2018, 11:24 AM

All went well, after a day or so of tussling

KU Ned · 07/21/2018, 08:20 PM

Great!

I added a Eibl (Red Stripe) to my 70 Gallon tall last week with a Coral Beauty that I have had for over a year. The Coral Beauty was a little aggressive at first but the Red Stripe is slightly larger and nipped back. Since then they mind their own business and sometimes even nip at the same rock/algae together.

10/18/2016, 06:24 PM	#1
marleesan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 327	Mixing Dwarf Angels I am setting up a 90 gallon and was wondering if I can have two dwarf angels. I currently have a cherub angel (1") and would add the second angel (flame) about 4 months after the cherub angel. Is this possible? __________________ 90 gallon FOWLR Valentini puffer, ocellaris clown, cherub angelfish, flametail blenny, falco hawkfish, green wrasse 180 gallon reef: starry blenny, yellowtail damsel

10/19/2016, 04:41 PM	#8
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	I have kept multiple dwarf Angels together in all sorts of sized tanks. Some combinations ended badly, but most learned to live together mostly peacefully. The key in sucessfully acclimatizing any new fish to a community tank is to ensure the fish is in good condition. Expecting a new fish suffering from the stress of being caught and shipped to then survive the initial hazing process, is the ultimate in stupidity IME. I put all new fish though many weeks of QT, for disease certainly, but also to ensure that they have regained their appetite and a healthy weight. Doesn't guarantee success, but sure increases the odds. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

10/19/2016, 09:34 PM	#9
fishfreak2009 Swimming in the School Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 406	If they are added at the same time that generally helps quite a bit. I have a flame, 2 coral beauties, and a lemonpeel in my tank, as well as a baby Koran and a baby regal. Everyone gets along pretty well, only occasional nipping between the coral beauty pair. In my old 180 I had a nox, a bicolor, a lemonpeel, 2 coral beauties, a Potter's, a regal, a Koran, and a juvenile emperor and didn't have any issues. Lots of food and lots of rock kept everyone happy. Rearranging the rocks upon adding to the tank and having a mirror helps as well. I always suggest trying to find small females. They fit better in a pecking order. __________________ A saltwater tank isn't a saltwater tank without angels, butterflies, triggers, and tangs. Current Tank Info: 380 gallon shallow reef in progress, 40 gallon quarantine

10/22/2016, 12:33 PM	#12
ThRoewer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 9,555	Close relatives may form mixed harems. For example Centropyge aurantonotus and Centropyge argi are known for this where their distribution areas overlap in the South Caribbean. The other option would be to go for species that are as far related as possible and have very different color schemes and behaviors. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk __________________ Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio 3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...

10/17/2017, 08:21 PM	#16
Frogmanx82 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,515	Whenever you buy a fish there is a chance it won’t make it and even with QT a chance you will introduce something bad in the tank. Every purchase is a risk. I have a Flame but am really considering a cherub. To me the upside is with it. Just like the 4 clowns I have that weren’t supposed to mame it together. __________________ Exodus 8:2 Check my homepage for tank pics and details. Current Tank Info: 90 gallon, 2x maxspect R420R LED, 4 Ocellaris Clowns, Yellow Eye Kole Tang, Flame Angel, Foxface Rabbitfish, Banggai Cardinals, Azure Damsel, rock flower anemone, cleaner shrimp, serpent star

10/18/2016, 06:32 PM	#2
Bobbitworm13 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Russell Springs, KY Posts: 330	I've never done it before but I've seen people with 30 and 40 gallon tanks do it so I would think so. Maybe get some light diffuser and split the tank in half and let them get used to each other.

10/18/2016, 08:38 PM	#3
Half Vaped Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 401	It's possible, but could end horribly for one or both fish. I had a Flame Angel for less than a month when I introduced a Coral Beauty in an acclimation box for about a week. No aggression at all while the Coral Beauty was in the box. As soon as I released the Coral Beauty, the Flame started attacking it relentlessly and it went into hiding in the rocks. I never saw the Coral Beauty again. That was in a 150G. The Flame got along with everything else, though. I never had a Cherub, but I read that they, too, can be pretty nasty. I think you're doing the right thing by putting the Cherub in first since it's smaller. Maybe try a larger Flame, use an acclimation box and be ready to catch one of them, if needed. I also find that heavy, frequent feedings can reduce aggression in many fish.

10/19/2016, 05:33 AM	#4
Angel101 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 172	Some people constantly repeat received wisdom and say, oh no it cannot be done, when in fact it can. I have three in a two foot cube. A Flame, a Cherub and a Golden and have never had any problems with aggression.

10/19/2016, 08:09 AM	#5
ntropics Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 267	I had a bicolor, coral beauty, and rusty angel in a 180. Never had any problem with aggression either.

10/19/2016, 08:51 AM	#6
scooter31707 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,971	Had a Flame and a half-back in a 120 that every time they saw each other it was on, lip-locking and everything until my tang would come and break it up. I would not recommend it in a 90, especially with those two which can be jerks.

10/19/2016, 01:37 PM	#7
silentstorm Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 96	While people have done it in the past - doesn't mean its going to work each time...cause it really comes down to the individual fish. But I personally wouldn't push it in a 90 gallon ... My experience is, its worked for me in my 180 gallon - I did start out with issues which lasted for few weeks - tried everything to catching one & finally before I toredown the tank to get them out - they settled! On the other hand, if you definitely want to test the waters - I would introduce the flame 2nd as you planned (if he is bigger than the cherub) / same size, would think about introducing together (which has worked for most).

10/22/2016, 01:47 PM	#13
skeeter2134 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Northport, New York Posts: 10	I have three dwarf angels in a 125 gallon reef. Bicolor, Flame and Potter's. The first two have been in the tank for about two years. The potter's is the smallest and this probably caused the flame to check him out but did't feel threatened. All three doing well.

10/22/2016, 02:32 PM	#15
Kremis Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 799	Depends on the individual like said above. Could end up great, could result in death of either the flame angel or cherub

10/19/2017, 11:37 AM	#17
ReefTeacher Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis MO Posts: 358	I have mixed dwarf angels many times...but more timid species, Golden, midnight, coral beauties. The cherub, C. argi, I had a great deal of experience with, and one of my students even tried to form a harem of them. They are tiny, but they are beasts! I have seen them attack an Emperor at least 10 times its size....and intimidate him! It was trying to inflict "death by 1000 cuts!" I would be very cautious about putting other angels in with them. Just watch carefully, if they make it through the first few days, usually the battle is won.

03/16/2018, 10:11 AM	#18
cwschoon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,318	I am dripping in a Coral Beauty for my 120 mixed reef now. I have a ton of rock and hope all will be well with my Flame Angel. The new Beauty is larger than the Flame.

07/20/2018, 10:43 AM	#19
KU Ned Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 12	How did the new Coral Beauty work out?

07/21/2018, 11:24 AM	#20
cwschoon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,318	All went well, after a day or so of tussling

07/21/2018, 08:20 PM	#21
KU Ned Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 12	Great! I added a Eibl (Red Stripe) to my 70 Gallon tall last week with a Coral Beauty that I have had for over a year. The Coral Beauty was a little aggressive at first but the Red Stripe is slightly larger and nipped back. Since then they mind their own business and sometimes even nip at the same rock/algae together.