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12/02/2011, 10:13 AM | #1 |
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Use of Lasers in Controlling Pest Algae and Corals
I've been doing some research on the use of Laser light in eradicating and/or controlling certain pests frequent in marine aquaria. These include,
The most common laser pointers (< 5mW) do not generate anywhere near enough energy to be effective. Higher power lasers are now available that can emit enough energy to instantly "boil" the targeted pest, while avoiding damage to adjecent corals. The primary challenges with this approach,
The next challenge is safety (mine as well as that of the livestock.) At this power output, blinding could be instantaneous if shined in ones eye (including a reflection of the beam.) Even looking at the beam endpoint unprotected is dangerous. Safety goggles provide user/viewer protection. I'm still working on a shield to prevent injury to livestock. This idea was suggested by Lotus-Darkrose, a user in the Laser Pointer forums - albeit a bit difficult to deploy
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-Tom The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw Current Tank Info: 96X30" 270Gal, Kessil 360WEs, BK250 Double Cone, 400 gal ASW station with continuous water change |
12/02/2011, 10:27 AM | #2 |
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I received and assembled the laser and waited for the batteries to charge (about 5 hours.) This model is 1800mW and generates a 445nm beam (beam is blue in color.) It has a 60 seconds maximum duty cycle and then requires a 120 second cooling time. I purchased a Pelican case and lock to prevent any unintentional access.
The second laser shown is a lower output 30mW laser with a 532nm beam (green.) This will be affixed to the main laser used for targeting and to test if any reflections will occur. The spectrum is important as the safety glasses block virtually all light in the 190-445nm range, making it almost impossible to see any reflections from the main laser. The green color beam of the targeting laser is easily viewable with the safety glasses on. Targeting with the low power laser is also important due to how quickly the main laser damages anything it touches. You would not want to hit a prized coral for even a second. I've only had a time to conduct a few tests as I want to complete fabricating a shield to protect the livestock before continuing. Also, more time will be needed to fully determine the impact and to see if anything re-grows – but here is what I've observed so far… Safety observations…This thing is scary-powerful. You have to be very careful.
Early Results Wow… there is no doubt in my mind that this is an effective method to kill virtually ANYTHING in an aquarium. The immediate results vary based on the type of target. So far I've tried the following,
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-Tom The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw Current Tank Info: 96X30" 270Gal, Kessil 360WEs, BK250 Double Cone, 400 gal ASW station with continuous water change Last edited by CalmSeasQuest; 12/02/2011 at 10:57 AM. |
12/02/2011, 11:47 AM | #3 | |
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Quote:
CJ
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65 gal Oceanic Starfire w/ Apex Controller, 2 Vortech MP10wES Powerheads, SWC 160 Extreme Cone Skimmer, Calc. Reactor, DIY LED Lights Current Tank Info: 65 gal Oceanic tank w/ starfire glass, 15 gal sump, Apex Controller, DIY LED lighting, 2x Vortech MP10 |
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12/02/2011, 11:53 AM | #4 | |
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I tried a couple of different methods, lasering the entire exterior of the bubble (you can see the pigmentation being "erased" as you lase the surface. And carving a large hole in the bubble. Time will tell if either are effective means of control.
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-Tom The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw Current Tank Info: 96X30" 270Gal, Kessil 360WEs, BK250 Double Cone, 400 gal ASW station with continuous water change |
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12/02/2011, 12:16 PM | #5 |
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I'm willing to 'let Mikey try it' until I know if there are issues with the tank glass heating, or heating a rock by accident and blowing through the bottom of your tank... inquiring minds want to know.
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Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. |
12/02/2011, 12:39 PM | #6 |
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Calm Sea - Great writeup! I also saw your thread on laserpointerforums
We have other Laser enthusiasts in this thread and my personal video below - This is only with a 700mw 445nm Laser - ive had this for over a year, and never thought of taking out pests, until i saw the thread above!
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12/02/2011, 01:29 PM | #7 |
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Adding the link to the laser forum topic.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...&postcount=244 There is some good info for high power laser noobs like myself. |
12/02/2011, 02:26 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
CJ
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65 gal Oceanic Starfire w/ Apex Controller, 2 Vortech MP10wES Powerheads, SWC 160 Extreme Cone Skimmer, Calc. Reactor, DIY LED Lights Current Tank Info: 65 gal Oceanic tank w/ starfire glass, 15 gal sump, Apex Controller, DIY LED lighting, 2x Vortech MP10 |
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12/02/2011, 02:42 PM | #9 | |
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Even with prolonged exposure, I don't think we have to worry about any rocks exploding. A few thoughts,
i.e. Much is made of someone being subject to Palytoxin, from which a full recover is "usually"expected. Using high power lasers around glass and acrylic cubes full of potential reflection angles carries with it a high likelihood of eye damage (potentially permanent) to either the user or observers not properly protected - Especially since the laser operator (assuming he/she is using the appropriate safety goggles) by design, won't be able to see many of the reflections. Add to this the fact that the safety goggles are nearly $50, and I can see instances where observers are watching Aiptasia being "fried" without protection...very scary. The tank inhabitants are subject to even greater risk, as they will not have the benefit of eye protection. I've also noticed the "sizzling" sound seems to attract fish, perhaps out of pure curiosity. I'm excited about the use of lasers in our tanks, but watching it slice through cardboard almost instantaneously has me treating it with the utmost respect.
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-Tom The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw Current Tank Info: 96X30" 270Gal, Kessil 360WEs, BK250 Double Cone, 400 gal ASW station with continuous water change |
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12/02/2011, 02:43 PM | #10 | |
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12/02/2011, 02:58 PM | #11 | ||
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12/02/2011, 03:54 PM | #12 |
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A reflected beam burned your skin? Imagine what it would do to your eye?
IMO, this sounds so dangerous to ones eyes that I think this thread should be flagged with a huge warning if not removed. I've never seen a thread advocating something so dangerous before (and I've seen a lot of dangerous practices in threads. )
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12/02/2011, 03:57 PM | #13 |
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So you are technically using a weapon to kill pest animals in your aquarium.
This seem stupid to me. I'd leave the lasers for the professionals. Pests can be avoided by quarantine. And removal can be done numerous ways, chemicals, biological, physical.. And you wanna use a WEAPON for this instead, risking your pets and your own safety for what. Reliving the passed while burning ants with a magnifing glass? Please tell me im wrong. Because this is very disturbing. |
12/02/2011, 04:11 PM | #14 |
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Boiling water in an eye wash syringe serves the same purpose, but you do have to get your hand wet.
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12/02/2011, 04:13 PM | #15 |
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I'm tending to agree---with the vision of the fact you can order anything off the internet, and arming random novice reefkeepers with something that can permanently blind or burn the user or some bystanding kid who stands at a lower level, with, say, a bounce off the reflector or other shiny surface, as someone not remotely used to handling a weapon-sort-of-thing swings it off-target with the button pushed---that's scary, guys.
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Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. |
12/02/2011, 04:13 PM | #16 | |||
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Quote:
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Yes, a strong laser is dangerous. Does this mean it should be banned or deleted? This thread and the other have warnings. Does removing this thread stop the people who don’t know better from doing something dangerous or does leaving a informational yet warning thread alive serve a better purpose? Quote:
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12/02/2011, 04:20 PM | #17 |
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This is another warning for the device mentioned above.
http://unitednuclear.com/Insert_For_...eld_Lasers.pdf And further information abour blue lasers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-light_hazard |
12/02/2011, 04:21 PM | #18 |
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This is a quote from the laser forum cited:
"I imagine that if you do this very many times your aquarium fish will go almost blind. Perhaps in an aquarium being blind wouldn't be such a disadvantage.. but if they were my pets I would get a piece of dark plastic to put into the water so the fish couldn't see the laser. Reflections off the glass can also cause eye damage to anyone (sk8r adds: or pet) in the room at that power, so either do this when no one will accidentally walk into the room or have safety glasses for everyone in the house."
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Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. |
12/02/2011, 04:32 PM | #19 |
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jrpark - thx for doing the right thing.
I posted that vid just as a demo, now its on 10+ reef forums getting some 'bad credit'. but in reality, isn't that why we are here? To educate ourselves before making a larger $$$ purchase? especially because it is dangerous. I am pretty sure we have mastered research already being in the sw hobby. before getting a laser you will HAVE to see warnings everywhere, its part of that 'hobby'. However, if you were one of those people "breading aiptasia" bc it was "pretty", then yes, please try joes juice first, and close this thread. Ignorance doesn't need to be blasted with negative feedback, it needs users like us to inform everyone what they are capable of. Good and bad. If this isn't for you there's no need to 'scare' people that are just trying to educate them self. sk8 has a good point though. I can shut the door to my aquarium room, and remove all pets/people. If you have an open area aquarium, you will have to wait to make sure nothing is around
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12/02/2011, 04:48 PM | #20 | |
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Rather than ban, I hope RC recognizes the opportunity to educate with the goal of avoiding injuries. In this case, the education is paramount, not only to protect the user, but any observers (intended or inadvertent.) To stress the importance of education, consider someone who purchases or borrows a laser to kill aquarium pests. They will likely not know that the very safety goggles designed to protect him/her from injury, prevent the viewing of beam reflections potentially dangerous to both livestock as well as any bystanders. As for educating fellow aquarists - If not us, who?
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-Tom The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw Current Tank Info: 96X30" 270Gal, Kessil 360WEs, BK250 Double Cone, 400 gal ASW station with continuous water change |
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12/02/2011, 05:07 PM | #21 |
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A primary goal of this thread was to inform and educate prospective users of laser technology as to not only the benefits, but the significant safety concerns and safeguards that need to be adhered to.
Fair enough, but don't underestimate the stupidity of some people. In my case, for example, there are certain chemical procedures that I'd readily carry out which I am very reluctant to recommend at RC. Even with warnings, someone may try it and not be adequately careful.
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12/02/2011, 05:25 PM | #22 | |
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Using your chemical procedures example - It would take specific knowledge and research to learn how to even try them. With lasers virtually anyone could access one with little or no clue as to the dangers to themselves or passersby. It's the antithesis of underestimating stupidity - I'm basically acknowledging it with the hopes "some" will learn.
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-Tom The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw Current Tank Info: 96X30" 270Gal, Kessil 360WEs, BK250 Double Cone, 400 gal ASW station with continuous water change |
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12/02/2011, 07:48 PM | #23 |
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I was at a local reef club meeting and walked around the corner to discover another member was demonstrating the use of a laser to kill aiptasia. The demonstrator was wearing safety glasses, everybody else was wearing sunglasses (Questionable protection at best), I was subjected to potential blindness because I had no eye protection.
I turned around and walked away thankful to still have my vision.....
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12/02/2011, 08:19 PM | #24 |
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I keep hearing Dr Evil and "frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their frickin' heads," every time I see this thread.
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12/02/2011, 08:24 PM | #25 |
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It's impossible to eliminate stupidity. The best you can do is try and educate as many people as possible.
Because of threads like this, Agu knew to walk away from the situation. I am holding out local reef club's Christmas party and was asked to demo the laser (my 1.4w should be here Monday) but I refused because this laser will not be coming out of the gun safe unless everyone in the room have the appropriate SAFETY (not sun!) glasses - or nobody else is in the room. |
Tags |
aiptasia, algae, laser, pests, xenia |
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