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Old 07/04/2009, 10:49 PM   #101
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Eric Borneman says the best way to ship sps corals especially is damp in a paper towel like LR is shipped.

have any of you shipped damp?

Carl


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Old 07/04/2009, 11:23 PM   #102
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I would never ship sps damp.

Transhippers ship damp to save on freight

Personally, I am not comfortable with transhippers mortality rates. Im kind of funny in the sense I like everything to live all of the time.


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Old 07/05/2009, 04:38 AM   #103
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there is less mortality shipping damp not more. have you ever tried it? Eric has successfully shipped damp hundreds of pieces.

saving on freight can be a benefit also for shipping corals, but is now not used for shipping corals just live rock which may not be benefited by the damp shipping.

personally, i think the goal of all of us should be to keep an open mind to a better way.

old habits die hard.

here is a quote from Eric Borneman
"I damp wrap everything except Seriatopora (submereged) and have had others do the same to ship to me, including USFWS. The paper towels used in public bathrooms are great (the brown ones), but any will do so long as they are perfume and softener free (don't use toilet paper or towels that fall apart when wet). Just take the coral from the water, dampen the towel in tank water, wrap lightly so as much of the tissue remains damp, and then put in a plastic bag with regular air (no oxygen needed - air has plenty of oxygen if not dissolved in water like in wet shipping). You can use styrofoam peanuts in the bag if you ware worried about the coral piercing the bag, but ultimately if it does puncture, no water leakage so no big deal. Then, the key is temperature control. Use heavy styrofoam and be sure to tape the styrofoam box with tape - no air gaps. Use heat or cool packs taped to the inside lid as necessary (no contact with shipping bags). Ship as normal. No acclimation needed, just put directly back in tank. On some species, you may some brown on the damp towel, but that's just a minor stress bleaching and you probably won't even notice it on putting it back in the tank. I think I have shipped just about every coral or at least a similar species in this way with extremely low mortality and much better issues with acclimating, no fouled bag water, etc. Further, the shipping cost is a fraction of the cost and you can pack many more corals in a box. You can put multiple corals in the same bag of air, as long as they don't crush each other. I have shipped 20-40 frags in the same bag each wrapped in small pieces of damp paper towel and had no mortality and no acclimation with polyps out almost immediately after putting in the tank.

Note: Do not take six pieces of styrofoam and line a box - temperature control is terrible. Use a real styro box with a lid."

you can read the whole thread here- http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic95818-9-1.aspx

damp or dry corals are hardier than you think.





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Old 07/05/2009, 12:01 PM   #104
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Old habit or not......I am not basing what I said on something I have read and someone elses experience

I have shipped countless corals as well, in all conditions and have experience shipping and recieving damp. The mortality rates are simply unacceptable.

you will nto find a "better" way than I do it in concern to mortalility rates. I can confidently ship in anything from 20 degree to 100 degree weather and guaranteee specimen to be in perfect health

Again, I have this funny quirk about needing to succeed every single time which may set my methods apart.

Again, JMO and there are many ways to skin a cat in this hobby and many different perceptions of what is and what isnt acceptable

I wont ever ship damp, nor will I knowingly pay for any shipment that I know will be packed damp.

I do absolutely agree with what he says in concern to using a "real" cooler. those makeshift seperate walled things are awful. sure they work most of the time, but you lose all real temp control, as well as the ability to truly control the environment with creative hot or cold pack application if you cannot hold the temp in the container.

If you really think this "damp" method sounds so great, I encourage you to go grab ten pieces fo coral out of your tank. Pack them damp in a cooler just like you would be shipping them and even keep the boxes in yor fishroom for perfect conditions and taking out the fed ex drop kick and cook element. Take them out in 24 hours and report if every single one survived.

For kicks......I just might do that just to prove what I *think*. I could even use a tough specimen of sps to give the experiment the greatest benefit of the doubt. Also keep in mind that frags, are going to be much tougher than colonies. Im not going to risk ten colonies just to prove a point, but I would venture to say the mortality rate of shipping actual colonies this way would be infintely worse yet. Maybe we could do this experiment together....you pull ten colonies out for a nice round number as a result....and I will pull ten frags.

He mentioned seriotopa as not being a ccandidate for this. Singling out that coral seems a little odd to me. It is mostly the thin branches of the seriotopa that makes it a very poor candidate for shippign damp, although there are countless acropora (and other)species that woudl have the same problem with the core temp changing and flesh drying far too easily due to thin branches and slime production to be a good candidate for shipping damp.


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Old 07/05/2009, 12:37 PM   #105
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i and many others would be interested to read about your experience with the "experiment".

i don't have enough sps corals to do the trial.

Carl


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Old 07/05/2009, 06:23 PM   #106
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At what temps do you need a heat pack or ice pack? I still havent seen a solid answer in this thread. Can anyone give pointers?


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Old 07/05/2009, 11:17 PM   #107
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Problems should be corrected with this thread. Please report if not.


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Old 07/14/2009, 08:05 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by flyyyguy
Old habit or not......I am not basing what I said on something I have read and someone elses experience

I have shipped countless corals as well, in all conditions and have experience shipping and recieving damp. The mortality rates are simply unacceptable.

you will nto find a "better" way than I do it in concern to mortalility rates. I can confidently ship in anything from 20 degree to 100 degree weather and guaranteee specimen to be in perfect health

Again, I have this funny quirk about needing to succeed every single time which may set my methods apart.

Again, JMO and there are many ways to skin a cat in this hobby and many different perceptions of what is and what isnt acceptable

I wont ever ship damp, nor will I knowingly pay for any shipment that I know will be packed damp.

I do absolutely agree with what he says in concern to using a "real" cooler. those makeshift seperate walled things are awful. sure they work most of the time, but you lose all real temp control, as well as the ability to truly control the environment with creative hot or cold pack application if you cannot hold the temp in the container.

If you really think this "damp" method sounds so great, I encourage you to go grab ten pieces fo coral out of your tank. Pack them damp in a cooler just like you would be shipping them and even keep the boxes in yor fishroom for perfect conditions and taking out the fed ex drop kick and cook element. Take them out in 24 hours and report if every single one survived.

For kicks......I just might do that just to prove what I *think*. I could even use a tough specimen of sps to give the experiment the greatest benefit of the doubt. Also keep in mind that frags, are going to be much tougher than colonies. Im not going to risk ten colonies just to prove a point, but I would venture to say the mortality rate of shipping actual colonies this way would be infintely worse yet. Maybe we could do this experiment together....you pull ten colonies out for a nice round number as a result....and I will pull ten frags.

He mentioned seriotopa as not being a ccandidate for this. Singling out that coral seems a little odd to me. It is mostly the thin branches of the seriotopa that makes it a very poor candidate for shippign damp, although there are countless acropora (and other)species that woudl have the same problem with the core temp changing and flesh drying far too easily due to thin branches and slime production to be a good candidate for shipping damp.
do you know who Eric Borneman is? he is the author of a book i hope you have in your library, "Aquarium Corals" he has also written many articles for Reef Central over the years. this is the method public aquariums such as Waikiki and Steinhart in SF use to ship corals.

you could ask Eric yourself your questions about shipping on the thread i linked to above.

i think perhaps you are confusing LR shipping with corals. taking sponges on LR out of water to ship IS a bad idea.

are you planning to do the experiment you suggested?

i have a further suggestion for your shipping demo. in each box put one the normal way you do and put the same coral damp as Eric recommends, side by side in the same container with your perfect boxing techniques.

now that would be a test.

Carl


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Old 07/19/2009, 09:56 AM   #109
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The only difference I see is most aquariums fly there corals by plane so they could only be dry rapped for a few hours where fedex and ups is almost 24 hrs or longer.


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Old 07/20/2009, 11:52 PM   #110
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but again my questions is, when is an ice pack necessary? At what temps?


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Old 07/23/2009, 12:40 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reefski's
do you know who Eric Borneman is? he is the author of a book i hope you have in your library, "Aquarium Corals" he has also written many articles for Reef Central over the years. this is the method public aquariums such as Waikiki and Steinhart in SF use to ship corals.

you could ask Eric yourself your questions about shipping on the thread i linked to above.

i think perhaps you are confusing LR shipping with corals. taking sponges on LR out of water to ship IS a bad idea.

are you planning to do the experiment you suggested?

i have a further suggestion for your shipping demo. in each box put one the normal way you do and put the same coral damp as Eric recommends, side by side in the same container with your perfect boxing techniques.

now that would be a test.

Carl

I do know who eric borneman is as well as have and use his book often at times.

Just becasue he knows a lot about soem things doesnt mean he knows everythign and doesnt say some things that may not be the best information. Just my opinion....take it with a grain of proverbial salt

I am in the middle of building a new house and propogation set up.........I will get to those tests as I have a few more on my mind with a little more bearing on them IMO anyway. I do agree with your perception of packing different ways inside the same boxes........makes it an even more level playing field if you will

Quote:
Originally posted by fishgeek12
At what temps do you need a heat pack or ice pack?
short answer- assuming you are using a quality thick walled cooler sealed well so you have some real control of the environment inside the cooler......anything under 60 and over 90 I would say needs temp control help. If you use inferior packaging that window shrinks.

Personally I use hot or cold packs in anything mid 80's and higher and low 70's and lower.

There are many creative tricks you can do from how much your wrap and insulate the hot or cold pack from the corals as well as putting the hot or cold packs outside the box even, and even the thickness fo the cooler itself. Every shipping circumstance is a little different, you either have to ship lots and figure it out and/or play with different concepts at your home tio figure out what really works. We have no control of how fed ex or otherwise is going to treat this package and where it may end up sitting for extended periopds of time along the way. Plan for the worst and the temps both coming and going and you will be doing yourself a favor in the long run. You need to be especially careful with hot packs, you are playing with fire if you use them improperly. Cold packs too but I have seen a coral survive water 40 degrees under temp. 10-15 degrees over in the bags and sps especially will simply be smelly water and skeleton on arrival.

I also believe that intentionally swinging your temps on a daily basis helps makes yoru corals more resilient to shipping and the inevitable changes they will encounter. If you swing it 4 or 5 degrees daily on purpose, then when soemthing goes a little awry, or if you go to ship them they wont even notice the temp swing. If you always keep your temps at exactly the same, then when they go through a change they will not handle it nearly as well

hth


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Old 08/28/2009, 11:28 PM   #112
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I am thinking about shipping a frag pack and would like to know how to calculate the shipping cost without actually bagging everything up and taking it to the shipper.

It would be 11 individually double bagged frags in a styrofoam lined 10"x10" or 12"x12" box with heat pack or cold pack if needed.


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Old 08/29/2009, 01:23 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by twizzlerman77
I am thinking about shipping a frag pack and would like to know how to calculate the shipping cost without actually bagging everything up and taking it to the shipper.

It would be 11 individually double bagged frags in a styrofoam lined 10"x10" or 12"x12" box with heat pack or cold pack if needed.
weigh the packaging.

fill one bag with water multiply the weight by how many bags will be shipped then use the shipping rate calculators on USPS, Fedex and UPS.


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Old 09/08/2009, 12:27 PM   #114
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What cold packs are you guys using?
I found these at WalMart but I wanted to be sure it was the right one.




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Old 09/08/2009, 12:45 PM   #115
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those are more or less it, but those are huge and would only be necessary in a fairly large box.


go to your lfs and buy some frozen food. they will usually have smaller ones to spare for your foods ride home. More along the lines of a 3x5 size or even smaller if you can fidn them. To be sure, if they will fit in the box with plenty of room to seperate from the frags one tht big could work fine, but if using a quality cooler to begin with that is too much cooling power and could be dangerous. A little dab will do ya as long as your packaging maintains temp to begin with.


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Old 10/20/2009, 09:24 PM   #116
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quick question... i am shipping a clam out. Temp in my location will be 69 during the day, 55 at night. The location its going to will have a temp of 84 during the day and 68 at night. Can someone tell me if i can shipout without a heat pack?


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Old 10/20/2009, 10:16 PM   #117
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sound slike a prime circumstance for a 8 hour heat pack. It will burn out by the time you dont want/need it anymore. be careful though as those short time ones burn hot. make sure it is well insulated from the clam by either wrapping/inuslating it well and keeping it at least a few inches from the bag with the animal in it, or simply tape it to the outside top of the box if using a quailty thick walled cooler sealed well.

still insulate it from the styrofoam with a thin piece of cardborad or soemthing. If you dont they can sometimes burn right through the styro


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Old 10/20/2009, 10:24 PM   #118
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damn the only ones i have are 30 hour heat packs. You can actually tape the heat pack on the outside top sytro and they still work? Can i use the 30 hour one and take it like you mentioned with a piece of cardboard in between with no issue?


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Old 10/20/2009, 10:32 PM   #119
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taping it to the outside doesnt really add heat per se, but it helps maintain the temp inside, esepcially if using a quality thick walled cooler sealed well. Your circumstance doesnt sound like you need much, so it would be just a little bit of extra insurance to insure you dont stray too far

most convenience stores and hardware stores carry the 7 or 8 hour packs this time of year

A 30 hour inside the cooler wrapped well so it doesnt give off too much would prolly work just fine too


to be honest, usually when I tape heat packs to the outside is when it is super cold....like 20......and I use them inside too. goal is lots of heat, but not lots anywhere near the bags themselves just to help maintain what you started with


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Old 10/20/2009, 10:35 PM   #120
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i will be shipping it a uline syro box. What would you do in this situation? 8 hour or 30 hour heat pack on the outside?


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Old 10/20/2009, 11:49 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishgeek12 View Post
What would you do in this situation? 8 hour or 30 hour heat pack on the outside?
as first saud, I would do an 8 hour on the inside. just dont take it for granted. that thing can get hot and you want to wrap it in at least a few layers of paper and newspaper and tape it to the top, and have several inches of insulation like peanuts or wadded up newspaper between it and the bags.

always remember that a little on the cold side is better than cooking. I over emphasize the need to be careful with 8 hour heat packs as I will never forget the first time I ever used them and I dont want anyone to repeat the accident on my recommendation


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Old 11/17/2009, 04:24 PM   #122
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Im am going to be shipping about 40 zoa frags all in the same package sometime within the next month

How would I package these frags?

In there own individual bags, or maybe like ten in each bag?

Im worried that if I ship 10 in a bag that some of the corals may be knocked off of the plugs during shipping

I was also wondering how much water should I put in each bag, just to the top of the frags or a couple inches above, (with 40 frags its going to be alot of water weight)

How would you guys ship 40 zoa frags????????


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Old 11/17/2009, 06:38 PM   #123
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How do you go about shiping through fedx? I went in to fedx and asked them if i could ship coral through them and the lady said they only ship live stuff for pet stores. I explained to her how that was not true because i had received shipments from private sellers before. She pulled out a rule book and showed me. So do you just not tell them what's in the box?


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Old 12/07/2009, 01:00 AM   #124
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big clam to ship?

I gotta 7" clam to ship from CA to Florida and Fedex business rates. I think I'll do the bag w/ a lil air in the tefloned ziploc screw top (if I can find a big enough one) all filled w/ water and some peanuts. Then, in another bag, then peanuts bubbles into styrofoam box with 1-30 hr heat pack and 1-8 hr heat wrapped in paper taped on the inside of box. Glue gunned and taped shut. Then fitting box.

Is this too much heat? how about size of styro box for this one?


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Old 12/07/2009, 01:10 AM   #125
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also, I recall some posts talking about how to declare and claim the corals as something else when insuring them through fedex because they will not insure corals. Does anyone know how to do this?? It's a bit fraudulent- I know.


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