Fewest amount of clowns in a harem?

[Kinetic]

I've seen a lot of threads and reports on clown harems. These are in display tanks of over 100 gallons (BRS' is 120, Mobert's is even larger).

Assuming I can find a source for captive bred juvi ocellaris, I wanted to know if anyone has any experience (beyond just feelings or assumptions) with the fewest amount of clowns that would avoid the dominant male & female to kill the rest off?

I ask because I'm considering a dedicated anemone + clown display tank at 25"x20"x20" with a large sump (sump will be around 55+ gallons additional water volume for bioload reasons, plumbing it externally).

I'm thinking the display might just not be enough space if I would need more than 8 ocellaris to have them do the whole "colony / harem" thing instead of ending up as just a pair.

[Esage]

I read a thread where they were going to try a harem of 5 in a 40 breeder. I've been thinking of try the same thing in a 30x24x16 tank. I've already started collecting BTA's

[Dcropley]

I have 11 in a 34g they are a year old now and they have the occasional fit of aggression but usually it dissipates after a day or so.

[D-Nak]

I'm running an experiment with seven percula juveniles from one of my clutches in a 10 gallon tank without an anemone. I see the typical squabbles, but no real aggression and no pairing off yet. The juveniles are less than a year old.

I also have a 60 gallon flat that has about 30 clowns in it, along with several gigantea and two RBTAs. It's got four adults that are in the tank while I build out my new system. Surprisingly, I don't see much aggression. The large, dominant female chases around the other fish but isn't able to single any out and kill them. She killed her male that she's mated with, so I know that she can be very mean. And to top it off, another pair that was in the tank was broken up and the male started mating with the dominant female.

I believe that the key to success is having several large anemones in the tank, particularly gigantea. All of the clowns -- adults and juveniles -- are able to hide in the tentacles of the gigantea and can disappear from sight. This is key because aggression is due to visual stimulation. All of the clowns completely ignore the two RBTAs.

You're welcome to swing by anytime to take a look if you like. I'm in Alameda (close to Oakland Chinatown).

[Ron Reefman]

I had 3 tomato clowns and 3 cinnamon clowns in a 75g hexagon tank. Ate the end of a year all that was left was a female cinnamon and a male tomato and they did mate. But they abused their tankmates to death.

[D-Nak]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

I had 3 tomato clowns and 3 cinnamon clowns in a 75g hexagon tank. Ate the end of a year all that was left was a female cinnamon and a male tomato and they did mate. But they abused their tankmates to death.

Good point -- I wouldn't try a harem tank with anything other than percula or ocellaris, maybe perideraion. Other clowns get too big and/or are just too aggressive.

[Kinetic]

Originally Posted by Dcropley

I have 11 in a 34g they are a year old now and they have the occasional fit of aggression but usually it dissipates after a day or so.

What kind of clownfish? Did you introduce them all as juveniles? What's your total system water volume?

[Kinetic]

Originally Posted by D-Nak

I'm running an experiment with seven percula juveniles from one of my clutches in a 10 gallon tank without an anemone. I see the typical squabbles, but no real aggression and no pairing off yet. The juveniles are less than a year old.

I also have a 60 gallon flat that has about 30 clowns in it, along with several gigantea and two RBTAs. It's got four adults that are in the tank while I build out my new system. Surprisingly, I don't see much aggression. The large, dominant female chases around the other fish but isn't able to single any out and kill them. She killed her male that she's mated with, so I know that she can be very mean. And to top it off, another pair that was in the tank was broken up and the male started mating with the dominant female.

I believe that the key to success is having several large anemones in the tank, particularly gigantea. All of the clowns -- adults and juveniles -- are able to hide in the tentacles of the gigantea and can disappear from sight. This is key because aggression is due to visual stimulation. All of the clowns completely ignore the two RBTAs.

You're welcome to swing by anytime to take a look if you like. I'm in Alameda (close to Oakland Chinatown).

That would be really cool! I'll reach out soon (Alameda is super close, I live in Berkeley).

[Dcropley]

Originally Posted by Kinetic

What kind of clownfish? Did you introduce them all as juveniles? What's your total system water volume?

I have regular ocellaris that I bought all from the same spawn at around 2 months old. I have a total of 55 or so gallons of volume including sump. I have a build thread on the tank and the fish.

[Kinetic]

Originally Posted by Dcropley

I have regular ocellaris that I bought all from the same spawn at around 2 months old. I have a total of 55 or so gallons of volume including sump. I have a build thread on the tank and the fish.

That's awesome. I'll go look for your thread.

Thank you!

[davocean]

3 seems to be a problematic number, and for best chance of success they should be same species, and really from same clutch introduced as young juvies.

[Kinetic]

I'm most likely going to try 8 to 10 ocellaris juvies.

I'll need to find a H. Magnifica to establish itself first. That'll be a task and a half!

Is there anywhere you know that sells davinci babies in clutches at a non-rediculous price?

[Esage]

Originally Posted by Kinetic

I'm most likely going to try 8 to 10 ocellaris juvies.

I'll need to find a H. Magnifica to establish itself first. That'll be a task and a half!

Is there anywhere you know that sells davinci babies in clutches at a non-rediculous price?

It seems everyone who tries this goes with an odd number of clownfish

[Kinetic]

Originally Posted by Esage

It seems everyone who tries this goes with an odd number of clownfish

Everyone? Not true. For example, BRS has 30...
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/clown...arem-tank.html

At some point, there's very little difference adding one more to a group wouldn't you think?

[davocean]

Odd or even is a wives tale IMO, fish can't count.
It's like what if one dies, does the group suddenly clash?
I think it's somewhat similar to anthia, the larger the group the more the keeping in check is spread around, that's why I say 3 seems to be a very problematic number, the 3rd wheel is always the one getting harped on.

On FB there is a page called clownfish market place, good group of breeders on there, that's where I'd begin, and I'd look for a group deal of them from the same clutch, and I'd say 8-10 is a pretty good number.

[Kinetic]

Originally Posted by davocean

Odd or even is a wives tale IMO, fish can't count.
It's like what if one dies, does the group suddenly clash?
I think it's somewhat similar to anthia, the larger the group the more the keeping in check is spread around, that's why I say 3 seems to be a very problematic number, the 3rd wheel is always the one getting harped on.

On FB there is a page called clownfish market place, good group of breeders on there, that's where I'd begin, and I'd look for a group deal of them from the same clutch, and I'd say 8-10 is a pretty good number.

Thanks!

Do you know the link to the FB group? Can't seem to find it.
EDIT: is this it? https://www.facebook.com/groups/ClownfishMarketplace/

Is having all from the same clutch better because they are basically used to each other from day 0, thus have a better chance of being happy? It would be pretty cool to get a few different types of ocellaris around the same size/age all at once too... but that might be impossible.

I'm thinking: 3x davinci, 3x mocha, 3x misbar, etc

[davocean]

Yes that is it, and it's only guess as to why for me but that seems to make sense in my mind why same clutch works best, it's just what seems most successful long term and even that may come w/ some pecking off way down the road.

I see people mix, not sure about long term, most people don't step up and admit failures way down the road.

Personally I like picasso's best, and there are so many patterns I would think it's easy to have a good varied mix that would make me happy, but others may work for you on that as well and still be same clutch.

[Kinetic]

Originally Posted by davocean

Yes that is it, and it's only guess as to why for me but that seems to make sense in my mind why same clutch works best, it's just what seems most successful long term and even that may come w/ some pecking off way down the road.

I see people mix, not sure about long term, most people don't step up and admit failures way down the road.

Personally I like picasso's best, and there are so many patterns I would think it's easy to have a good varied mix that would make me happy, but others may work for you on that as well and still be same clutch.

Yeah, same clutch makes sense. While a harem is cool, I'm weirdly interested in just getting a couple different ones to start if I can find available ones around the same time and size. Might not work out, but if it does, WOOHOO.

Does the Clownfish Marketplace group have a lot of breeders? I requested to join, so pending membership.

[davocean]

Lots, yes, and I see people giving deals on small groups

[Kinetic]

Still haven't been accepted into the group. How long does it normally take?


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[davocean]

Not long, maybe busy, but try clownfish depot, Brian Williams is owner, he's on there a lot, I've purchased through him before, he'll add you quick

[Kinetic]

Yay I'm in! Thanks so much for the recommendation.