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Unread 02/24/2012, 09:04 PM   #3526
psteeleb
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from NOAA - and you will note Mesenterial filiments are not sweeper tentacles although a lot of people jump to that conclusion.

Aggressive Methods

To survive and thrive in a space-limited environment, some corals have developed several specialized mechanisms for direct interaction for self-preservation and competition with other corals and other organisms for space in an ecosystem. The most common aggressive mechanisms include sweeper tentacles (detect and damage adjacent coral colonies), mesenterial filaments (enabling external digestion of neighboring colonies), and terpenoid compounds (coral chemical warfare). [d] These methods are not necessarily mutually exclusive as some species of corals employ each of these mechanisms in concert to prevent losing their space on the reef. [e] It has been estimated that, on the reef, between 22 and 38 percent of all coral colonies are engaged in battle or are within range to engage. [f]

Sweeper Tentacles

Sweeper tentacles are the most common defense mechanisms in the hard corals, and also occur in some soft corals. Specialized stinging cells called nematocysts are present in these tentacles and can attack a competing coral and literally burn it to the point of either killing it or severely damaging it. The length of these sweeper tentacles is not correlated to the length of the normal coral polyp and may, in fact, be many times longer. [e] Sweeper tentacles are also utilized by some species to detect adjacent coral colonies that are encroaching on it.

Mesenterial Filaments

In addition to sweeper tentacles, several hard coral species can produce mesenterial filaments from their stomachs (corals of the genera Favia, Favites, Scolymia, Pavona, and Cynarina all have this capacity). [g] These filaments can kill or devour other coral polyps through a process similar to digestion. Some corals even have the capacity to produce both sweeper tentacles and mesenterial filaments, enabling them to fight a battle on several fronts. [e]


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Unread 02/26/2012, 11:03 AM   #3527
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Very interesting information Pete, thank you. I agree, probably the mesenterial filiments from the carbon dust. Strange my Tri-Colors were the only corals showing this response though. Maybe they are just more sensitive than the other corals when something like this happens...?


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Unread 02/27/2012, 12:03 PM   #3528
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So I added a couple filter socks to the sump last night and they are making my skimmer go nutso and overflow. I washed the socks in hot water with some vinegar and made sure they were dry before using them. I thought it would have settled down by now but 12 hours later it's still foaming and overflowing. I opened the drain plug and connected some tubing to drain back into the sump overnight just in case... didn't want any floods. Any ideas why it's taking so long for them to break the skimmer in?

If it doesn't stop by tonight when I get home I'm going to take the skimmer pump apart and make sure nothing weird is going on with it.


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Unread 02/27/2012, 12:15 PM   #3529
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Filter Socks are notorious for making skimmers go nuts. Most will sock in RO water overnight before adding. I typically just rinse w/ water & let drip dry for an hr before adding. I don't seem to have any more issues. The issues seem worse too when the sock are newer.

Your skimmer should be fine by now, but if not just clean it up and you will be fine.


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Unread 02/27/2012, 12:21 PM   #3530
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Every time I put a brand new filter sock on my skimmer goes bananas... I've yet to try any of the pre-rinsing/soaking methods, but you're not alone in that...


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Unread 02/27/2012, 02:33 PM   #3531
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never had a problem with filter socks but I also bleach them in the washing machine then air dry them.


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Unread 02/27/2012, 02:47 PM   #3532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 110galreef View Post
Filter Socks are notorious for making skimmers go nuts. Most will sock in RO water overnight before adding. I typically just rinse w/ water & let drip dry for an hr before adding. I don't seem to have any more issues. The issues seem worse too when the sock are newer.

Your skimmer should be fine by now, but if not just clean it up and you will be fine.
Good to know, thanks 110g. I picked up a couple of 4" felt socks at the LFS on Sunday, which are the ones giving me the bubble trouble, but have a couple more mesh on the way from BRS. I'm pretty sure these are BRS too since my LFS stocks some bulk items from them like socks and GFO etc... The 4" slip onto my 1.5" bulkheads perfectly but I've got an idea on how to secure the 7" if they don't want to stay put. I'll update when they get here...

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Every time I put a brand new filter sock on my skimmer goes bananas... I've yet to try any of the pre-rinsing/soaking methods, but you're not alone in that...
Thanks dekand.

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never had a problem with filter socks but I also bleach them in the washing machine then air dry them.
OK thanks reeftanknewbie. This time around I just used vinegar to wash them but might look into the bleach method next time. I've seen a lot of people use H202 as well, which they claim has even more of a disinfectant that bleach when washing them - and perhaps slightly safer in the long run.


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Unread 02/27/2012, 09:29 PM   #3533
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UPDATE:


Now that the skimmer has stopped overflowing I plugged the drain back up and it's kicking some serious soap bubbles. Here's a pic of the bubble madness.






As I said earlier I picked up a couple 4" socks at the LFS this weekend. The small tab inside the plastic ring seats perfectly against the threaded end of the two bulkheads in the sump, so they almost "clip" into place. I have a couple 4" and 7" mesh socks on the way but these two were a trial run to see how difficult mounting them would be. I'll have to play with the 7" socks a bit to get them to work but I'll update when they come in.

Here you can see how nicely the 4" socks lock right onto the threaded end of the bulkhead. I also got a new TLF Micro Valve for my Kalk drip which you can see in the foreground of the pic.




Here's the two socks installed.




I also added a 4x8" mini mesh sock to the skimmer to cut down on the excess bubbles. So far it's working perfectly. Absolutely no bubbles in the drain or skimmer section. I just seated it right on the output TEE.





Whole left side of the sump.




I've also been running some BRS GFO alongside the TLF Bioplastics. Since I added the second round of pellets I'm running approximately 600ml in the reactor. The bubbles in the pic are some stray foam that left the skimmer when I took the tubing off the drain and plugged it back up. Normally the return section is free of bubbles. Notice my "high tech" probe holder (still working on that).




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Unread 02/27/2012, 10:15 PM   #3534
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hey - hi tech or not - it works


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Unread 02/28/2012, 10:50 AM   #3535
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hey - hi tech or not - it works
Indeed!


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Unread 02/28/2012, 12:36 PM   #3536
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As always, nice job keeping everything nice and clean looking.


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Unread 02/28/2012, 01:20 PM   #3537
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As always, nice job keeping everything nice and clean looking.
Thank you Brett.


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Unread 02/29/2012, 02:06 PM   #3538
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which skimmer is that again, brett? And I agree, everything always looks really clean. too clean.


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Unread 02/29/2012, 02:13 PM   #3539
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That probe holder is brilliant, its always at the right height! I just might steal that idea for my own tank.


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Unread 02/29/2012, 09:26 PM   #3540
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which skimmer is that again, brett? And I agree, everything always looks really clean. too clean.
That's the magic of photography. The skimmer is an MSX 250A. Marine Solutions (MSX) was the domestic retailer of SWC skimmers so it's basically an Askoll 1500 with SWC volute using an MSX pinwheel impeller. Probably nothing you didn't know already, but these skimmers were almost exactly the same as the older Octo Extremes from a year or two ago.

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That probe holder is brilliant, its always at the right height! I just might steal that idea for my own tank.
Thanks Alex. I just wedged it in between my bubble trap and it's stayed put since. Kinda wish it was a different color, pink doesn't exactly go with my color scheme...


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Unread 02/29/2012, 11:45 PM   #3541
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Thanks for the great idea of the mesh sock over the skimmer output. I'll be ordering one! Perhaps I'll put one at the bottom of the drain pipe as well, as it seems like they'd be easier to clean than the felt socks.


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Unread 02/29/2012, 11:57 PM   #3542
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Thanks for the great idea of the mesh sock over the skimmer output. I'll be ordering one! Perhaps I'll put one at the bottom of the drain pipe as well, as it seems like they'd be easier to clean than the felt socks.
You are welcome. It's working great to cut down on the excess bubbles. I originally had a tee on the skimmer's output and mounted the sock right-side up, but I found the way I currently have it mounted (in the pics) to work the best. The bubbles pop at the far end of the sock and are trapped so they aren't released back into the sump.


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Unread 03/01/2012, 12:01 AM   #3543
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looking good


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Unread 03/01/2012, 12:10 AM   #3544
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looking good
Thanks Pete!


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Unread 03/01/2012, 12:29 AM   #3545
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UPDATE:


Back at work tonight... As you may know, I didn't originally design my sump to accommodate filter socks. I've been thinking about a way to mount 7" socks securely for a long time and finally came up with a solution. Here goes...



Here's what I started with... This is one of the two 1.5" drain bulkheads that terminate into the drain section of the sump. There is a small piece of 1.5" pvc that is friction fit into the bulkhead that extends about 1" under water. The water level in these pics is high because I turned off the return pump and skimmer to photograph this project. Operating water level is ~1.5" below what is shown.





So after a year of research it hit me... If I turn a 2" Uniseal bulkhead upside down, it would create the perfect ledge for the tabs on a 7" filter sock to rest.





The I.D. of a 2" Uniseal is ~60mm in diameter, slightly smaller than the O.D. of my 1.5" bulkheads. I needed to machine the inside of the Uniseal to allow it to adapt to the threaded side of the bulkheads in the sump. So using a coarse sanding drum on the drill press I sanded down the rubber enlarging the I.D. to roughly the O.D. of the threads on the bulkhead.





Once I was done sanding I cleaned up the Uniseals and pushed them onto the bulkheads. Again, the operating level of the sump is roughly 1.5" lower than the water level shown in the pic below.





With the filter sock installed you can see how the tabs on the 7" sock clip nicely above the uniseal's rimmed edge. Makes for a secure fit that allows for quick and easy sock changes. I can easily remove the dirty socks and replace them with clean socks without disturbing the new Uniseal sock mount.





So it took me a year to think of, but only 30 minutes to complete the project. But what I like most, the filter socks are securely fastened to the sump but can be easily removed for cleaning. Also, no permanent changes to the sump were necessary. And for about 4 bucks a piece for the Uniseals, now that's reefing on a budget.





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Unread 03/01/2012, 12:57 PM   #3546
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Nice! As iwishtofish mentioned earlier I do use mesh socks as opposed to felt socks on my drain lines because I do find them so much easier to clean. That being said, I'm still lazy and have a disgusting pile of uncleaned ones sitting in my fish room.

I also use drawstring bags and just hold the drawstring to my sumps euro-brace with a heavy piece of tungsten I happened to have laying around. Your setup looks much easier to maintain, and much more professional, but it really proves you don't always have to break the bank in this hobby.


In unrelated news:
I'm following you and Pete very closely on the biopellet issue. My experience was much more similar to Pete's, but there were so many confounding factors I decided not to blame the biopellets. Once he gets the skimmer volute mod and the recirculating reactor mod I'll see if things improve for him, but in the meantime how are your corals and nitrates reacting to you putting biopellets back on?


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Unread 03/01/2012, 02:49 PM   #3547
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That is a sweet sock setup!


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Unread 03/02/2012, 09:19 AM   #3548
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I like the sock design very nice


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Unread 03/02/2012, 10:42 AM   #3549
drummereef
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Quote:
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Nice! As iwishtofish mentioned earlier I do use mesh socks as opposed to felt socks on my drain lines because I do find them so much easier to clean. That being said, I'm still lazy and have a disgusting pile of uncleaned ones sitting in my fish room.

I also use drawstring bags and just hold the drawstring to my sumps euro-brace with a heavy piece of tungsten I happened to have laying around. Your setup looks much easier to maintain, and much more professional, but it really proves you don't always have to break the bank in this hobby.


In unrelated news:
I'm following you and Pete very closely on the biopellet issue. My experience was much more similar to Pete's, but there were so many confounding factors I decided not to blame the biopellets. Once he gets the skimmer volute mod and the recirculating reactor mod I'll see if things improve for him, but in the meantime how are your corals and nitrates reacting to you putting biopellets back on?
Corals are doing fine in my tank Alex - so far. The pellets haven't quite kicked in like I'd thought they would have by now... NO3 is still roughly ~17-20ppm. I'm running 600ml of the Bioplastics now so I thought that would have been enough to at least get them kicking. If I don't see any changes by the end of the weekend I'm going to add another 200ml, or what's left from my last bag. I'll keep you updated when I see some progress.


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That is a sweet sock setup!
Thanks 110g!! Seems to be working nicely so far.


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I like the sock design very nice
Thank you dthelen!


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Unread 03/02/2012, 12:49 PM   #3550
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Just got off the phone with Jeremy at PA, new sand ordered and on it's way!


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