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Unread 05/08/2013, 09:26 AM   #26
OranguTang
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Mother of....

Super excited to follow this. Looks like a very rewarding journey will unfold.


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Unread 05/08/2013, 09:41 AM   #27
indyjaco
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Holy Crap.

Love the view of Austin.


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Unread 05/08/2013, 09:46 AM   #28
larcomak11
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Mother of all that is holy, this is gonna be intense lol subscribed! Good luck with everything, I can only imagine what it felt like watching that tank on the crane


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Unread 05/08/2013, 01:43 PM   #29
pmrogers
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The Fish Room, plan

The fish room is being implemented in phases.

Phase 1: enclose most of a garage car bay to create a 16' x 12' area. Move the old 750gal acrylic tank and use it during construction to house both its livestock and the livestock from our 205 reef. Relocate about 600lbs of live rock to rubbermaid buckets to make room in the 750.

Phase 2: extend phase 1 with a 23' x 8' space directly under the new display tank. This room will house the sump, skimmer, reactors, and reservoirs for R/O and saltwater.

Phase 3: tear out the 750, then populate that space with quarantine tanks, sink, lab desk, 12' wall of cabinetry for supplies.


I have a few key requirements in mind for the fish room, mostly the result of lessons learned with our previous tanks:

1.Easy access to all equipment - spread things out and keep them on a single level as much as possible. I learned with the 750 and 205 that having things too packed together makes maintenance difficult, and maintenance that is difficult doesn’t get done as often as it should. When I do have to stack some things like the quarantine tanks I will leave 2' or more of clearance between the top of one tank and the bottom of the next.

2. Complete humidity control - Humidity control for our 750 was a high CFM exhaust fan and supplemental window A/C. This was sufficient to prevent actual rot of drywall or mold, but the salt air still caused exposed metal anywhere in the house to rust: most notably the A/C registers even in the far back upstairs bedroom, and the strings on the grand piano 30 feet away from the tank. The new fish room and display tank canopy share no airspace with the house, have a dedicated 3-ton multi-zone A/C, and a dehumidifier separate from the A/C.

3. Tons of storage - With our previous setup, ‘fish stuff’ quickly overflowed the 6’ x 14’ fish room to take over 2 cabinets in the butler pantry, 2 cabinets in the kitchen, 3 in the utility room. Then progressed on to fill a 6 foot storage cabinet on the back deck, and several shelves in the garage. No, I didn’t really need everything I was keeping, but I did need a lot of it. For the new room I’m hoping that a 12' wall of floor to ceiling, 30" deep cabinets plus a couple of hanging cabinets over the sink will let me keep everything contained to one space.

4. Better Salt Mixing Solution - Our previous fish room had a 7' tall reservoir for mixing salt. Every water change entailed hauling a 60-odd pound bucket of salt up a stepladder then trying to carefully pour the contents of the 12" diameter bucket into an 8" opening. I really don't want to do this twice a week for the life of the new tank. Still working on my solution for this requirement.
Now on to pictures...

Plan view of fish room


Early draft of room layout
Some people use SketchUp equipment and plumbing layout. I prefer "CutUp" (TM). The plan shown here is a bit out of sync with my latest thinking. One slight disadvantage of CutUp is that it isn't quite as easy to back up your work, and I had a rather severe data loss incident in the form of a cat deciding to shred my work.



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Current Tank Info: 1700gal 164"x48"x56" starphire and FRP tank

Last edited by pmrogers; 05/08/2013 at 01:51 PM.
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Unread 05/08/2013, 01:48 PM   #30
pmrogers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishyFishy69 View Post
Six 32" filter socks ....???? I'm thinking you meant different diameters. Are they 7" socks?

I can't wait to see more on this build. It looks incredible!
Thanks FishyFishy and everyone else who chimed in.

Sorry, didn't make that very clear, did I? Yes, they are 7" diameter. 32" is the length.


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Unread 05/08/2013, 01:52 PM   #31
WWodyz
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Wow! was gonna say holy Cr@p but someone beat me to it!


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Unread 05/08/2013, 02:00 PM   #32
rbarn
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Sweetness.

1. Careful with Starfire glass it can scratch too. Nothing like Acrylic, but if a big piece of frag brushes against Starfire it will leave a mark.

2. You know you have a real tank when it takes a 100 ton all terrain crane to install it !!!


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Unread 05/08/2013, 02:04 PM   #33
RichieWrasee
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Wow. Lovely pad and epic build. Just a tad jealous.


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Unread 05/08/2013, 02:42 PM   #34
worm5406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmrogers View Post
4. Better Salt Mixing Solution - Our previous fish room had a 7' tall reservoir for mixing salt. Every water change entailed hauling a 60-odd pound bucket of salt up a stepladder then trying to carefully pour the contents of the 12" diameter bucket into an 8" opening. I really don't want to do this twice a week for the life of the new tank. Still working on my solution for this requirement.
OK so this is an easy one.

Take two gated connections. A single inline pump, also. In between this place a smaller 5/10 gallon container. Set it up so that you can fill it with water from the Salt storage.

This will give you a place, lower, that you can add the salt to water and then pump it back into the main storage container, in a higher concentration.


So basically.. from the bottom have a return line headed UP to top, for recirculation works, with a T... hummm let me draw this.



Make sense??

That way the inline pump will draw out the brine/salt mix and drump it in the top of the tank. To be fancy you can open the lower slightly to add water as the pump is running to prevent cavitation or running dry. This setup will also mix the water from the bottom to the top.


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Unread 05/08/2013, 03:37 PM   #35
pmrogers
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Fish room, plan meets reality

Phase 1 did not go as hoped.

Because moving the 750 was going to take multiple weeks due to logistical complications, I arranged for all of the livestock from the 750 to be temporarily housed with a local tank maintenance service.

Unfortunately, the tank maintenance company had a power outage over one weekend and every vertebrate in the tank died except for a snowflake eel. I was crushed. None of the fish were especially rare but many had been with me through multiple tanks over 12+ years.

Nothing to do but carry on, so we proceeded with moving the 750 into the new fish room, tearing down the 205 reef and moving its fish and rock into the 750. Meanwhile, the service guy keeping the rock and corals from the 750 got very busy (or was afraid to face me) and couldn't deliver my remaining snowflake eel and live rock for a few weeks.

Then came the final, awful bit of this setback. For background, when engaging with the fish kennel service I was crystal clear that my fish and rock were to be kept completely separate from his, in separate tanks, no shared water. This he did as requested. What he didn't tell me was that after the big crash he moved our eel into one of his other tanks. 3 days after he delivered the eel and rock back to me, the fish from the 205 developed spots. Over the next 3 weeks every fish died except for a yellow tang and two chromis.

At that time, I was still planning to re-use my live rock, so I needed to get the fish out of the 750 and let the rock lie fallow for 3 months. This takes us up to current state of the fish room.

Fish Room Entrance
I park right next to the entrance, so no excuses for not checking on things at least twice a day.


The fish-less 750


4 pathetic survivors in a 90gal
The only survivors from our fully stocked 750 and 205: 1 yellow tang, 2 chromis, and an eel. The four 75gal quarantine tanks will go on the left wall with the LED and pump drivers; all drivers and sloppy wiring will be removed. Water level in the tank intentionally low to keep the eel from talking a walk. Wall behind the 90gal will be removed to expose phase 2.


Fish room phase 2
Phase 2 of the fish room is the lower level room with the 3 small windows. Display room is directly above on the middle level. Phase 1 of fish room is to the left of phase 2.





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Current Tank Info: 1700gal 164"x48"x56" starphire and FRP tank
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Unread 05/08/2013, 03:50 PM   #36
rbarn
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Sweet add on. Looks like you almost doubled your house. I never would have thought to take it out over the driveway like that. Must be some serious steel work in there.


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Unread 05/08/2013, 04:04 PM   #37
doosiec
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Good lord!

Is that 4 floors in the building? 1 Floor completely dedicated to fish?

The world is now watching you every step of the way.


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Unread 05/08/2013, 04:09 PM   #38
pmrogers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbarn View Post
Sweetness.

1. Careful with Starfire glass it can scratch too. Nothing like Acrylic, but if a big piece of frag brushes against Starfire it will leave a mark.

2. You know you have a real tank when it takes a 100 ton all terrain crane to install it !!!

1. Excellent point, rbarn. Our 205 was starphire and I did manage to put 3 significant scratches in it over its 15 year life. Mostly from over eager use of a metal algae scraper. Even still, the first impression on seeing the tank was that it was new and you had to make a point of looking for scratches; contrasted with the acrylic 750 that was half the age and looked like a war veteran. My plan for the new tank is to use only acrylic-safe algae pads and scrapers. My biggest worry for now is losing control of one of the taller aquascape pillars during install.

2. Yeah, I got a kick out of the crane. I was a huge Tonka fan as a kid.

Crane counterweight
The counterweight is 25,000 pounds and had to be delivered on a separate 18-wheeler flatbed.



Crane footing
Apparently even 18" square feet might punch through the asphalt of the street, so they bring 4' steel plates to further distribute the weight.



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Current Tank Info: 1700gal 164"x48"x56" starphire and FRP tank

Last edited by pmrogers; 05/08/2013 at 04:25 PM.
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Unread 05/08/2013, 04:16 PM   #39
pmrogers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worm5406 View Post
OK so this is an easy one.

Take two gated connections. A single inline pump, also. In between this place a smaller 5/10 gallon container. Set it up so that you can fill it with water from the Salt storage. . .
Thanks so much, worm5406! I was trying to work out something along these lines, but hadn't gotten to the drawing phase yet.

Do you think I might need more like a 20gal mixer in order to be able to dump an entire bucket in one go?

One concern I have about this approach is whether the flow pump would actually pull from the concentrate reservoir given that there is no flow-through, it's just sort of off to the side. Have you implemented or seen an install like this?


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Unread 05/08/2013, 04:28 PM   #40
dave.m
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By the power of Grayskull!!!

(Oops! Sorry, I fell off my chair for a moment, there.)

Dave.M


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Unread 05/08/2013, 05:01 PM   #41
rbarn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmrogers View Post

2. Yeah, I got a kick out of the crane. I was a huge Tonka fan as a kid.

Crane counterweight
The counterweight is 25,000 pounds and had to be delivered on a separate 18-wheeler flatbed.

Crane footing
Apparently even 18" square feet might punch through the asphalt of the street, so they bring 4' steel plates to further distribute the weight.
lol, yeah I sell those for a living. Pretty neat stuff to be around. Thats actually a bit of a baby crane.

I've got a 275-tonner hitting the docks in Houston from Europe in 2 weeks if you want to buy one. lol ..... 155,000lbs of counterweight. Takes 4 trucks. Make you a hell of a deal. Only used by a grandmother on Sundays to move her oil drilling rig around.




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Unread 05/08/2013, 05:10 PM   #42
.Marshall
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YUP.. amazing, subscribed!


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Unread 05/08/2013, 05:25 PM   #43
roni
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Wow Paul, amazing. Very sorry to hear about your mishaps. It's impossible to replace fish you've had for years and I applaud you for staying the course.

That view looks pretty similar to my parent's view near Far West. Looking forward to seeing how the build progresses!


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Unread 05/08/2013, 05:39 PM   #44
worm5406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmrogers View Post
Thanks so much, worm5406! I was trying to work out something along these lines, but hadn't gotten to the drawing phase yet.

Do you think I might need more like a 20gal mixer in order to be able to dump an entire bucket in one go?

One concern I have about this approach is whether the flow pump would actually pull from the concentrate reservoir given that there is no flow-through, it's just sort of off to the side. Have you implemented or seen an install like this?
As long as the inline pump is lower than the actual 'mixing station' (for lack of a word) it will prime and flow to the pump. This will inturn get pushed up the piping to the top of the saltwater storage container. Placement of the pump above the bottom level will not be able to pull a suction. Turning on the lower valve will bring the water from the bottom, into the top, and mix the water continously. Be careful of water heigth, again, in the storage tank as it will need to be below the water level. Discharge of water into the top will create a waterfall affect so care should be taken on airation, into affect.

I have seen this but in a feeding aspect. Put food into the bucket with tank water and turn it on to suck it into the piping. Same aspect, except you are just adding salt in to it. With the mixing station at this level you can do it multiple times by turning one valve and mixing the salt inside it. Once done all you do is flush it a few times.

Or we can get you a electronic hoist to lift the bucket up.


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Current Tank Info: Tank:300g Mixed Reef 300+lb LR|4" LS|5x MP40W|75g fuge|5x RadionPRO|RO DB250 skimmer|Apex
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Unread 05/08/2013, 05:40 PM   #45
HunterBryan
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This build is gonna be amazing I'm excited to start my 75 gallon build but dang that's just one of your QTs haha... Amazing!


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Unread 05/08/2013, 05:43 PM   #46
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I like how your driveway actually goes underneath the house! That's really cool, but beautiful home and setups! Can't wait to see more looks like it progressing fast even with the setbacks and extreme renovation! Following along without a doubt!

Best of luck from Ohio!!!

Joe.


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Unread 05/08/2013, 06:13 PM   #47
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Amazing house my friend. I'm sure the tank will follow suit. Any idea on skimmer and water movement in the tank?

Corey


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Unread 05/08/2013, 06:34 PM   #48
aquasport24
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Oh heck yeah, only an hour away too. Hopefully, i will have a chance to see this tank in person someday.


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Unread 05/09/2013, 05:24 AM   #49
pmrogers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doosiec View Post
Good lord!
Is that 4 floors in the building? 1 Floor completely dedicated to fish?
3 floors. Fish in two rooms: fish room on the lower level, and a 15x23 display room on the middle level.


Quote:
Originally Posted by roni View Post
Wow Paul, amazing. Very sorry to hear about your mishaps. It's impossible to replace fish you've had for years and I applaud you for staying the course.

That view looks pretty similar to my parent's view near Far West. Looking forward to seeing how the build progresses!
Thanks, Roni. Good eye, we are indeed near Far West, in the Cat Mountain area.


Quote:
Originally Posted by worm5406 View Post
As long as the inline pump is lower than the actual 'mixing station' (for lack of a word) it will prime and flow to the pump.
. . .
I have seen this but in a feeding aspect. Put food into the bucket with tank water and turn it on to suck it into the piping
. . .
Or we can get you a electronic hoist to lift the bucket up.
Okay, got it. Thank you for the explanation. I've also seen the feeding solutions you mention. For that matter, the venturi intake on my old skimmer is the same idea, I suppose.

A hoist, simple pulley if not electric, is a great idea! Even with a mixing station at 4' or so height, lifting the buckets to pour is going to be a bit of a pain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biecacka View Post
Amazing house my friend. I'm sure the tank will follow suit. Any idea on skimmer and water movement in the tank?
Thank you, Corey. I do have some ideas and will be posting in the next few days about the selection process and open questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nanoohio View Post
I like how your driveway actually goes underneath the house! That's really cool, but beautiful home and setups! Can't wait to see more looks like it progressing fast even with the setbacks and extreme renovation!

Joe.
Thank you, Joe! "Fast" isn't the first word I'd choose to describe progress-- these first updates are summarizing work that started in November . Once I've caught up with this first batch of posts I imagine we'll be going 2 and 3 weeks at a stretch between interesting progress updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquasport24 View Post
Oh heck yeah, only an hour away too. Hopefully, i will have a chance to see this tank in person someday.
Sure thing! I will most definitely be hosting an open house once things get to some semblance of done.


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Current Tank Info: 1700gal 164"x48"x56" starphire and FRP tank
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Unread 05/09/2013, 06:51 AM   #50
pmrogers
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Tank peek

Got to see the tank again briefly yesterday when the cabinet maker came out to take measurements. For most of the past month it has been covered up either with:


Full crate for the rafter install




or Foamboard padding during the drop ceiling install


Tank shot
It is filthy with sawdust, but so far unscathed, knock wood.



Plumbing!
The sum total of my plumbing thus far. Two valves to seal the closed loop bulkheads for the water test.


Cross braces are beefy to say the least. These will complicate things for the cabinet maker.


Radius corners
More hassle for the cabinet maker. Finishing out these corners cleanly without throwing away an inch+ of viewing panel on each axis will be a challenge.


Stand overhang
Top of stand overhangs 6.5" all around to make room for a full-on soundproof exterior stud wall with double layers of 5/8" drywall and isolation clips. Same treatment up top for the canopy. Doors through the soundproof wall will be 4" thick solid core wood. All of this will be hidden under a cosmetic cabinetry layer.


Overflow
One detail got lost in my order with Waterdog: rails for holding an egg crate grill in front of the weir. I'll have to make my own and find an adhesive that is good for bonding PVC to FRP.



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Current Tank Info: 1700gal 164"x48"x56" starphire and FRP tank
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