Be kind, I am in a pickle.

[rjd0521]

Temp needs to be around 70 and needs not to fluctuate for that kind of seahorse. My tank was 65 when I had pot bellied sea horses.


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[vlangel]

Originally Posted by Dogshowgrl

I appreciate everything you are saying. sorry if I came off as "passionate." I will keep up the tube feeding.

You think Selcon and mysis is good enough? Is there something better?

Side note: I grew up working with animals. I grew up with a vet that said "dead or better" it's not to say you don't try everything. But try everything and they make the decision to keep fighting. When you put your heart and everything you have into it, you are able to sleep at night because at the end of the day they are "dead or better" and you did everything you could.

Thank you for the input, we will see. Fingers crossed and "dead or better" but hey let's give it a shot!


But to be able to sleep at night, I need to know I exhausted every avenue I had. These forums are one of them. I hope someone who has been successful (or not) will chime in.

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Dogshowgirl, how are things going with the seahorse? I was just wondering as my heart went out to you for the effort you chose to exert on the seahorse's behalf.

[Dogshowgrl]

Thank you for asking. I lost him this morning. He was looking better but even tube feeding his energy level was dropping. He was finally hitching and responsive to me. I am heartbroken. If I had been given him a week sooner I may of had a chance, but I now have an empty tank and an open place for the next rescue that may need my help. I wouldn't really change my treatment methods, I would just hope that someone would send them my way sooner. (This person knew how to contact me and had seen my husband 2 weeks prior and told him how bad it was)


I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. I just hope one day it won't be so common to get wild caught ponies.

That you all for all the advice, and the boost in moral.

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[OllieNZ]

Sorry to hear you lost him. It certainly sounds like you were on the right track to saving him.
Without trying to sound callous, if you still have have him it may be helpful to have an autopsy performed. If you can figure out what was infecting him and any other details regarding his passing, it may be helpful for the future to develop a targeted treatment programme.

[Dogshowgrl]

I did post him. I am here to learn, that way didn't die completely in vain. He had bubbles everywhere. His entire digestive tract, his omentum were in such bad shape that even with tube feeding there was no way he could absorb what I was putting in. His pouch was incredible that it could even get to that extent. I really think I could have done something if I had gotten him sooner. I am confident on my treatment plan. I do think he had improve some, just not soon enough fast enough for the condition he was in. he didn't get like that over night, there was no way I could have fixed it over night. I had a solid plan, and great cheerleaders (thanks again) but next time I will try again. With the goal of not bailing people out, but informing them on CB availability and care. I will NEVER buy a "rescue" I feel strongly about that, I learned that from my dogs. (one of my mom's life lessons) I am glad I stuck to that and advise others to do the same.

[Dogshowgrl]

Originally Posted by rjd0521

Had sea horses. Tank is too hot at 82. They need colder temps or they will have lots of bacterial infections. Drop the temp. Looks like tail is infected. Need antibiotics, drop temp to prevent future infections.


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I am sorry, Captain, you didn't read the full post.

FYI!!! I rescued him from that... that was the HISTORY on him.


I made changes and noted them. If you are going to respond please be helpful. This maybe my first pony rescue but I AM NOT inexperienced on the care and medical needs. I was asking for support, not of list of the things that were done wrong by the person who cared for him before me.


Even if I was new to this "antibiotics" wouldn't be much help because they used a different therapeutic dosages than for most other Actinopterygii (ray-finned fishes if you weren't familiar). What family of medications are they? How are they metabolized? Most effective delivery method? pain management? are they safe with other drugs (contraindications)? Dosage?

Being helpful means details and possibly some experience other than owning them and keeping them healthy in the first place. I have done that, thats the easy part, but actually facing the puzzles (that you didn't cause but are willing to clean up for others) and adding to the community knowledge. THAT is what it means to be helpful.

What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make. - Jane Goodall

If it has never been done before and you do it with compassion, how could it be wrong?

Please review your answers because your input makes a difference, make it a good one.

[vlangel]

Originally Posted by Dogshowgrl

Thank you for asking. I lost him this morning. He was looking better but even tube feeding his energy level was dropping. He was finally hitching and responsive to me. I am heartbroken. If I had been given him a week sooner I may of had a chance, but I now have an empty tank and an open place for the next rescue that may need my help. I wouldn't really change my treatment methods, I would just hope that someone would send them my way sooner. (This person knew how to contact me and had seen my husband 2 weeks prior and told him how bad it was)


I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. I just hope one day it won't be so common to get wild caught ponies.

That you all for all the advice, and the boost in moral.

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Ahh, I am sorry you lost him. Its tough to invest so much and still have him perish but I believe you gave him the best chance possible. Its a testimony to the treatment plan that he lasted as long as he did. When I inquired about him I was fearful that he had passed shortly after you got him. I think you are probably correct if you had acquired him a week or so sooner the results would have been different.

Like you, it is my hope that folks will get their seahorses from captive bred sources and leave the ponies in the ocean in the ocean where they belong.

[OrQidz]

Oh that's a shame that he passed, I'm sorry to hear that. You are a rock star though, for taking him in and trying absolutely everything you could. It sounds like he was just too sick to be saved. I have no doubt that you provided him comfort in his final days...He had a clean tank, proper water, food and a caring person. So even though he did not survive, I know absolutely that you made a difference to him. Thank you for helping him as best you could.

[Dogshowgrl]

Originally Posted by OrQidz

Oh that's a shame that he passed, I'm sorry to hear that. You are a rock star though, for taking him in and trying absolutely everything you could. It sounds like he was just too sick to be saved. I have no doubt that you provided him comfort in his final days...He had a clean tank, proper water, food and a caring person. So even though he did not survive, I know absolutely that you made a difference to him. Thank you for helping him as best you could.

Thank you for the kind words. It means so much.

Now to educate the public on the impact we make in the world.

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[OllieNZ]

Originally Posted by Dogshowgrl

Thank you for the kind words. It means so much.

Now to educate the public on the impact we make in the world.

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It would be great if you could do a write up of a programme/guidelines for helping sick ponies

[Dogshowgrl]

Originally Posted by OllieNZ

It would be great if you could do a write up of a programme/guidelines for helping sick ponies

As soon as I am successful and have saved a few ponies I will post my findings and what it took to get them there. I take extensive notes, but I don't want to lead someone astray if my methods aren't the best I can offer them.

Sadly, I have another seahorse I am conferencing in on now. It is CB and has quality care, but has IBD. She is not mine, but my friend that got me hooked on seahorse keeping. I will see how her treatment goes and if I gather information that could be helpful, of course I will share!

[RickBaker]

Incredible job, just incredible. I have learned soooo much coming to this thread. Dogshowgirl you blow my mind at your attitude and persistence in trying to keep that little guy alive. Before I came to this website all I was doing was killing sea horses. Kept buying wild caught, have learned it is much cheaper to buy farm raised, it's still stressful when I get them because it seems like it takes for EVER to get them to eat (2 weeks on the last 2 from http://seahorse.com/ in Kona, Hawaii) I have 6 seahorses now, the oldest 2 I had for a year. Before I came here I was able to keep them alive for about 4 weeks. I only buy FARM raised horses now, they are about $20 more per horse but pays for itself when they live. I won't buy WC or captive bred. Captive bred are not the same as Farm raised. Captive bred is a 50/50 chance of living.

[redhorse]

WOW! I am totally confused at the description of captive bred and farm raised. My understanding is that the farm raised were caught in the wild and raised in an aquarium. Technically a WC that has been in captivity and Captive bred means that the fry were born and raised until adult hood and their offspring are considered captive bred.
Seahorse.com just happens to call their establishment a farm but there horses are captive bred. PLEASE correct me if I am wrong.. I am getting to old for all these changes.. :-)

[vlangel]

Originally Posted by redhorse

WOW! I am totally confused at the description of captive bred and farm raised. My understanding is that the farm raised were caught in the wild and raised in an aquarium. Technically a WC that has been in captivity and Captive bred means that the fry were born and raised until adult hood and their offspring are considered captive bred.
Seahorse.com just happens to call their establishment a farm but there horses are captive bred. PLEASE correct me if I am wrong.. I am getting to old for all these changes.. :-)

I also thought that any fry raised in a tank with premixed saltwater was captive bred regardless of what the parents are.

I thought it was WC and tank raised that were to be avoided because tank raised could just mean they were penned in the ocean and maybe taught to eat frozen food but were still exposed to pathogens in the ocean.

[BlueCat1949]

Not sure what the current situation is for calling something CB but in the past captive bred meant that the parents were raised in an aquarium and gave birth to fry. Tank raised was a wild caught seahorse that gave birth in an aquarium. Then asian horses came along and were sold as CB when they were net pen raised in the ocean.

I would only buy horses that are true captive bred from places like seahorse source. They are open about selling horses that came from other breeders and tell it like it is.

I would never buy seahorses in a local fish store because they are usually connected to the entire filtration system with other wild caught fish.

My first seahorse was a wild caught H. barbouri and I soon learned that he would be a major challenge to feed and keep healthy. He was given to me because he had not eaten in two weeks and was in a small 5 gallon tank on the counter of a LFS. He would not eat live brine shrimp and I had to buy very expensive live food for him. He had every health problem imaginable and I learned how to treat air in the pouch and bacterial infections but after several months he didn't make it.

I still would of tried to save him, at the local fish store he would of starved to death. Never easy to see a seahorses die but it was part of the hobby and when you raise fry to adulthood it makes up for all your failures.

[ThRoewer]

Captive/farm/tank bred means that the parents spawned in captivity and the fry was raised in a tank.

Captive/farm/tank raised means that either eggs, larva or juveniles were collected wild and then raised in captivity. The latter is common practice with tuna.
An additional option to this with fish like seahorses (or lobsters) would be to collect "pregnant" parents and have the fry hatch in captivity before returning the parent to the wild.
Under this category there are also a few other options like for example how salmon eggs are obtained and fertilized, but those would not work for seahorses.

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[iluvmyfishes]

Had a WC with the same gas bubbles under the snout. Really thought she could not eat but since she did not die I had to assume she was eating somehow. Later I discovered that she hunts a little at night. Two known causes of gas bubbles are bacterial and from being brought to the surface too fast when first caught. Keep water up quality and use the deepest container you have. One day I looked in the tank after a few months and the bubbles were gone, just like that, they vanished overnight. It took months and I was never sure she would make it. But since she never gave up, I didn't either. Keep temp between 72-74, I actually did not even have a heater in her tank.

[redhorse]

That is very interesting information about the "being brought to the surface to fast when first caught". I did not know that seahorses lived that deep where that type of issue would be a cause. I know from videos and articles about fish collecting they are usually caught by skin divers and now scuba divers but still thought they were caught under 50' of water.
Never amazes me to find new info.. I will definitely have to do some extra research on this topic.
Do you still have seahorses?

[Dogshowgrl]

Originally Posted by redhorse

That is very interesting information about the "being brought to the surface to fast when first caught". I did not know that seahorses lived that deep where that type of issue would be a cause. I know from videos and articles about fish collecting they are usually caught by skin divers and now scuba divers but still thought they were caught under 50' of water.
Never amazes me to find new info.. I will definitely have to do some extra research on this topic.
Do you still have seahorses?

Yes. This was due to uninformed LFS having terrible water quality. I try to help when I can and they contacted me, But yes, I have many seahorses and love them dearly. I try to help if I can, and I preach good care practices to anyone that will listen. Lol. I have several species of CB seahorses and try to learn from everyone I meet.

Originally Posted by redhorse

That is very interesting information about the "being brought to the surface to fast when first caught". I did not know that seahorses lived that deep where that type of issue would be a cause. I know from videos and articles about fish collecting they are usually caught by skin divers and now scuba divers but still thought they were caught under 50' of water.
Never amazes me to find new info.. I will definitely have to do some extra research on this topic.
Do you still have seahorses?

Yes. This was due to uninformed LFS that contacted me, having terrible water quality. But yes I have many seahorses and love them dearly. I try to help if I can, I preach good care practices to anyone that will listen. Lol.

I

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[g_langley]

@Dogshowgrl - You have my complete respect. This hobby needs many more like your good self. At least the poor thing had some love at the end.

[Dogshowgrl]

Originally Posted by g_langley

@Dogshowgrl - You have my complete respect. This hobby needs many more like your good self. At least the poor thing had some love at the end.

Thank you. That means more to me than you know.

I can't talk credit for this. I have great peers that help me. I come from a family of conservationists and veterinarians that love to teach and will help for medications and supplies most don't have access to. When I got into the hobby I found a great LFS like no other. I hate saying LFS because it doesn't do them justice. The owner quickly became my best friend. Even in this often wasteful hobby, she stands tall and shares all of her knowledge. She breeds anything she can and loves talking about all the "first of a species" people have accomplished in the basement of their homes and how that is how the hobby will move forward. Small scale to add to the knowledge and prove there is a market for more commerical aquaculture. Could you ask for anything more!?

I may not know all the answers, but I make the decisions based on my current knowledge to gain knowledge for the future.

If we all keep our trade secrets to ourselves, we can't move forward, we just keep trying to find each other's secrets.

Share knowledge. Ask questions. Try it yourself, don't spread information you have not vetted. Never stop learning.

[redhorse]

What species and can you show us some pic? Thanks!