houston area octo keepers?

[joeyd]

i have a female O.bimaculoides that i would like to try and mate with a male but i've been unable to find any males in my area as far as LFS's go. the problem with mail order is that i can't be sure of what im getting until it gets here so i was wondering if there are any local folks that have a male they wouldn't mind experimenting with.

i live about 45minutes away from the gulf and go there regularly so obtaining food for the youngsters wouldn't be a problem. i have plenty of tanks so space isn't a problem either. i just need to find a male that's old enough to get his groove on. i'm more than willing to bring my female to your location or do almost anything necessary to make this happen. anyone interested please let me know......or if anyone knows somewhere online that can guarantee a male specimen i'd be willing to try that once i suppose.

what really erks me is the the NRCC is *right* there in galveston but they dont deal with the public. what a shame.

[know-it-all]

I don't live in the area, but
most cephs are doomed after mating.
Males die a few days later and the females die of starvation after the eggs hatch.

I would call out to fisshsupply.com and have them look for a male for you.

[joeyd]

i realize that males die shortly after mating and i am willing to replace the "stud" with another mail order bimac, although i can't guarantee it's gender. not a bad offer considering the short lifespan of these creatures......unless you're really attached to your pet.

[cephalopoder]

joeyd
There is no one who sells octos other than the NRCC that can sex one ahead of time for you. You would have to sex it yourself. How do you know for sure you have a female? Is it wild caught? If so when did you buy it? How big is its arm span right now?

Males die a few days later and the females die of starvation after the eggs hatch.

Males can actually live for some time after mating. The males can mate many times with differnt females. Often the male flushes out the previous males sperm from the females pouch, before he plants his own.The breeding pair I had this year the male lived over a month after mating. I had kept this male for 8 months prior to the mating. That makes 9 months in captivity.This is a average life span for bimaculoides in captivity. Bimacs are usually 3-6 months old when they are large enough for collectors to capture them. Unless you have a chiller, the higher water temp will also cut down on their life span.
The female that laid eggs lived for a couple of weeks after the eggs hatched. She still ate every now and then the whole time till she died. Loligo squid die directly after mating and laying eggs.
Some species of octopus in wich the female is much larger than the male can actually eat their male when mating is done. Male argonauts actually break off their 3rd arm filled with sperm and passes it to the female. The male argonaut then dies. I would too.

[know-it-all]

cephalopoder,
That is very good news about the female eating after the eggs were laid.
I don't mean to give mis-information, but I mearly pass along what I have read.
Which in the way of Octopus, there isn't much out there to read.


joeyd,
I was going to suggest the replacing plan to you.
But, how do you sex them anyway, I would like to know.

[joeyd]

cephalopoder
i bought my bimac from ffexpress last june/july and it was tank raised. the arm span is at least 20" now.....probably more. i feel confident it's a female as i've made 3 attempts at sexing it and i cannot distinguish the tip of the 3rd right arm from any other arm.

i have a friend who teaches biology and is thinking of setting up an octo tank in the classroom. perhaps the NRCC would sell to her?

know-it-all
here's a thread that discusses octo sexing:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...&highlight=sex

[know-it-all]

Thanks

[joeyd]

here are some decent pics of the male ligula:

http://www.cephbase.utmb.edu/imgdb/i...s=&LowestTaxa=

http://www.cephbase.utmb.edu/imgdb/i...s=&LowestTaxa=

i haven't found pics of the male bimac, but im assuming it would be quite similar.

at first, i tried just observing the 3rd right arm while the octo was clingin to the glass, but ironically this arm always seems to be curled up. eventually i was able to get my hands on that particular arm one day while "playing" tug-o-war w/ the critter. it's a time consuming process and with so many arms it gets confusing. it helps to have another person there to occupy several other arms.......and the moment my bimac realizes that i have it in my clutches it's gets pretty upset. anyone know of a safe way to anesthetize an octo?


-joey

[OctoMonkey]

Hi

many people use an isotonic solution of 7.5% MgCl26H2O in distilled water to an equal amount of tank water. But this involves catching the octo and putting it in another container that will stress it out anyway!

However, if your not 100% sure what your doing dont do it.

And, i'd guess that a bimac that size should be easy to sex so maybe not worth the hassle.

[cephalopoder]

The hectocotylus on a male bimaculoides is 1/50th of its arm length! Is is extremely small compaired to some other species. The curled up 3rd right arm tip is a interesting obsevation. My most recent male did the same thing. I too wonderd if this was a tell tale sign of sexing a male. I have been reluctant to mention this as a possible way to sex bimacs because I am not sure how reliable this method is yet. More tests on oter specimens will need to be done to confirm this. I also wonder if this is a way to sex male bimacs , at what age do they start to curl their 3rd arm? This will be a good test for a tank full of twenty baby bimacs!
When I sexed mine it was a hands on experience lol. The use of a eye loop helped. It takes a lot of nerve to do this though. Not for the timid.
I have my deceased octos frozen so I have been thinking of thawing out my last male bimac and taking some pics of its third arm tip. If I get around to it I will post some pics.

[OctoMonkey]

okay, okay I stand corrected...

What about the groove running down the arm? Is that not visible at all?

C

[joeyd]

well, this past weekend i tried again to sex my bimac. yes, it's amazing he doesn't hate me yet from the seeming torture i put him through. he still likes to play so he doesn't hold much of a grudge thankfully.

this time i tricked him partially into a net while he was pulling me into the tank in the usualy tug-o-war fashion and i brought him totally out of the water. i was determined to sex this thing once and foreall.

the result.......it's a male.....i *think*.

after reading cephalopoders post about the small size of hectocotylus i had to try again to know FOR SURE. there are several problems i kept having:

-the octo was pretty uncooperative and slimey.
-the 3rd right arm does not want to be handled. it actually seems like he is guarding this arm intentionally because seeing the very tips of other arms is easy.....i didn't even have to try because they would reach out to grasp onto something.
-i was by myself and needed another pair of hands.
-i felt guilty i was hurting my pet (kermit) as he gasped for breath.

i tried to inspect the 3rd right arm as closely as possible and it did appear to be lighter in color and more blunt on the tip than the other arms but i could only catch a glimpse for a split second. after 2 glance i thought i saw a slight groove.....but maybe i just wanted to see it? *shrug*

so now im leaning towards it being male, but i want to be positive before putting another bimac in the tank. funny, this time last week i was sure it was a female. that could've been ugly.

[cephalopoder]

Its tuff to see it Colin. Wait till your bimac gets big enough, you will see what I meen if its a male lol