What to do with a 36 gallon tank?

[SturgeonTale]

Hello everyone!

As you can probably guess I'm new to this whole saltwater aquarium thing, I haven't even decided if I'm going to turn my tank into a saltwater aquarium or not. Long story short, I'm here to explore my options. At the moment I have two aquariums in my possession: a 10 U.S gallon standard long aquarium - that I don't plan to use for a saltwater aquarium (it will likely be converted into a terrarium) but it could potentially be used as a sump tank - and a 36 U.S gallon bow-front tank that I would like to use for a reef tank (but I'm open to a fish-only tank too).

Here's a list of fish I would like to use, please let me know if this is over stocked or if the fish are incomparable with one another:

• Flame Angel (1)
• Fire Goby (2)
• any small clownfish species (3)
• Mandarin Goby (1) OR
• Catalina Goby (1)

I've done some reading on saltwater fish but since there are so many available species I'd like to know what you would suggest for my first saltwater, 36 gallon, tank? Here are a few other fish that appeal / don't appeal to me, if that will help at all, though I am open to all suggestions

Fish that appeal to me:
I know I can't have many of these species in my tank, but it gives you an idea of what I like

• Pufferfish of all kinds
• Dwarf Lionfish
• Eels
• Sea horses and Pipefish
• Tangs
• Gobies
• Hogfish
• Angelfish
• Dwarf Angelfish
• Unusual, unique or bizarre looking species

Fish that don't really appeal to me:

• deep-bodied Cardinalfish (for example the: Pajama or Banggai)
• single colored Chromis
• Killifish

Thank you in advance to everyone for their input!
~Tale

[jrr98002]

As far as the fish you'd like to use, I and most everyone else here will say no to the mandarin in that size of tank. The others could work, just add the clownfish all at the same time if you add 3. As far as the fish that appeal to you, most are a no-go except for dwarf angels and gobies. You could make a seahorse tank I suppose, but it'd have to be very low flow. As far as more suggestions/input, others will need to chime in.

[SaltyDoug]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your tank is going to be far too small for many of the fish your interested in.

You certainly can get a pair of clownfish , not 3 as eventually one will turn into the dominant female, another it's male, the third one out will be picked on til it starves to death.

Firefish is fine but only one unless you can get a verified mated pair.

No tang or angel of any kind that I know of will fit.

Catalina gobies are not tropical they are temperant meaning they need a cooler temperature then most other species kept in marine aquariums.

Mandarins require live food called copepods your tank size would quickly be depleted of them and he would starve

Don't be discouraged though as there is a lot of beautiful fish you can keep.

Here is a good start for some info on fish available to you
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/a...t=1&page_num=1

As for unique fish check this out
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...238&pcatid=238

[Frantz]

+1 on SaltyDougs info.

Small tanks (36g is small in marine world) tend to do best with a minimalist stocking approach. They are nano systems, and while they are tons of fun, it's not a place to showcase large varieties of the bigger fish. There are many small fish that can be utilized though, but not a Mandarin. I've had good luck with Mandarins, but in 120 DT.

The 10g is a bit small to be a useful sump. I presume your 36g isn't drilled. You could make a refugium out of the 10g, but IMO it's not worth the hassle, unless you were to consider a low flow seahorse tank or something that a few extra pods would pay off.

What for lighting are you planning? This is the big difference in expense between reef and FO.

[dkeller_nc]

In another thread, I explained that with a reef tank (also true with a FOWLR (Fish Only With Live Rock), the actual tank is virtually always the cheapest item. Given that's the case, it can be a bit of a mistake for someone to start a reef tank based on the tank(s) that they have on hand.

And we almost always suggest that a beginner not start with a "nano" tank (loosely defined as 30 gallons or less). The reason is that it's more of a challenge to maintain proper water chemistry with a smaller tank because of its small volume, and there's much more of a limitation on the fish one can keep.

Just to give you an example, you can buy a 40 gallon breeder tank from Petco during their dollar-per-gallon sale for $40. A 20 gallon long tank can serve as a great sump for the 40 gallon (again, $20 from Petco). Buying the glass drill bit, bulkheads and overflow box for this set-up will cost you about $50, and you can build a stand yourself for about $30 in lumber. So total investment in the tank itself = $140.

Now consider that you'll spend perhaps $700 in equipment for this tank (lighting, return pump, propeller pumps for in-tank circulation, test kits, RODI system, Automatic Top-Off Unit (ATO)), although the cost will be a bit lower for a fish-only since you won't need nearly as much lighting as a reef tank.

So as you can see, the actual glass tank, sump and stand is a relatively minor cost, and this remains true up to a 120 gallon 4' standard glass tank.

For these reasons, we often suggest that beginners start with a 40 gallon breeder at a minimum. Other good sizes are a 75 gallon and 120 gallon tank (at least for 4 foot tanks).

[fritzz1111]

Case in point. I have a 29 in my bedroom that cost me just over $1k and I bought the Biocube used and built my own custom stand (stand not included in the $1k as I built it out of solid oak and would not be a fair comparison).

I've got another Biocube sitting in my garage waiting to go to my office. Pulled out the calculator the other day and it took me no time to hit $700 bucks (not including LED upgrade).

On the other hand the 155 I've got in the living room going through the first week of cycling with wet, LR and DSB that has be currently sitting at approximately $1,500 (including tank, cabinet and canopy (all used)... excluding my apex system and all of it's related components).

Admittingly, I do search for deals and by gently used when it makes sense but it still gives you an idea to the scalability related to cost that dkeller refers to above.

[SturgeonTale]

Originally Posted by jrr98002

As far as the fish you'd like to use, I and most everyone else here will say no to the mandarin in that size of tank. The others could work, just add the clownfish all at the same time if you add 3. As far as the fish that appeal to you, most are a no-go except for dwarf angels and gobies. You could make a seahorse tank I suppose, but it'd have to be very low flow. As far as more suggestions/input, others will need to chime in.

Yeah someone else (on another forum) told me the Mandarin Goby wasn't a great idea. I'll just take it off the list, I like the Catalina Goby equally as much.

Oh I knew almost all fish on the list of fish that appeal to me were a no-go for my tank, I only put them up there to give people suggesting other fish an idea of body shape and colors that appealed to me - I didn't expect to actually put them in my little tank.

Thanks for the quick reply and all your help.

[SturgeonTale]

dkeller_nc and fritzz1111:

I did reading into how much a saltwater tank will cost me and I'm prepared for that. I also understand that the amount of work for a smaller saltwater tank will be greater, but I'm prepared to take my time and ensure everything is as it should be be before populating the community. I would rather not go out and buy a new tank then have two tanks - one operational and one that was a brand new (and a gift) perfectly good rotting in my garage, since I know I don't have the resources (money or space) to sustain two tanks.

I'm not in a rush to change up my tank, I'm just exploring my options for my 36 gallon at this point.

[dkeller_nc]

Keep in mind that you'll require two tanks anyway - one system for your display tank, and another for a quarantine tank. What sizes you select for these will of course depend on the fish that you get and your preferences; a 10 gallon QT is suitable for a goby or a cardinalfish, not so much for a tang.

[SturgeonTale]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Keep in mind that you'll require two tanks anyway - one system for your display tank, and another for a quarantine tank. What sizes you select for these will of course depend on the fish that you get and your preferences; a 10 gallon QT is suitable for a goby or a cardinalfish, not so much for a tang.

I know but a QT can be smaller and I can be less worried about space confinements. Speaking of QT, I have a few questions - if you don't mind? Would a 10 gallon be a suitable QT for a flame angel? If not what would be a good size for it? How long should I quarantine a fish before I put them with the others? How long should I wait between introducing species into the tank? What order should I introduce fish into a tank? Large to small? Small to Large? Aggressive to passive? Passive to aggressive?

Thank you everyone for all the information, by the way. I know I'm new at this, and new people can be frustrating. I'm just trying to understand and I want to get all the information I can before I decide on anything.

[dkeller_nc]

Don't worry about asking questions, that's what we're here for.

With respect to QT'ing a flame angel, realize that your 36 gallon is quite a bit too small for this fish. In fact, it's a bit too small for even the smallest of dwarf angels.

With respect to the adequacy of the 10 gallon for QTing purposes, it depends. If you're going to do the Tank Transfer Method for eliminating ich, then you need 2 10 gallon tanks, but they should be sufficient for a fish up to about 3" because they won't be in the tanks all that long (about 12 days). If you're simply going to quarantine, observe, and treat an ich infestation with hyposalinity, then I'd suggest that a 20g high is probably the minimum for the average flame angel because it'll be in QT for 4-6 weeks.

[SturgeonTale]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Don't worry about asking questions, that's what we're here for.

With respect to QT'ing a flame angel, realize that your 36 gallon is quite a bit too small for this fish. In fact, it's a bit too small for even the smallest of dwarf angels.

With respect to the adequacy of the 10 gallon for QTing purposes, it depends. If you're going to do the Tank Transfer Method for eliminating ich, then you need 2 10 gallon tanks, but they should be sufficient for a fish up to about 3" because they won't be in the tanks all that long (about 12 days). If you're simply going to quarantine, observe, and treat an ich infestation with hyposalinity, then I'd suggest that a 20g high is probably the minimum for the average flame angel because it'll be in QT for 4-6 weeks.

Thanks! Like I said I'm in no hurry, but now I know what to look for when researching, gathering or looking for supplies.

Oh okay, if a flame angel is too big for my tank is there a different fish you could suggest in its stead? I'd like to have something with similar colors and body shape but I'm open minded.

[R6_boogieman]

hello sturgeontale i would start with simple fish like some clowns and kind of get used to the routine of feeding fish and water changes, keeping perameters at point its a big must specially if you want your tank to be happy. i would stay away from all those fancy fish for now. its like getting a exotic car before u even learn how to drive. not trying to discourage you in anyway but my best advise would be to start off real small and kind of get your feet wet so you can build a routine on having fish first then see if you can maintain the parameters. if its doesnt work atleast you can say u didnt go all out and bought all those expensive fish for no reason.

[dkeller_nc]

Well, given your chosen tank size, any of the "nano fish" that are listed on Live Aquaria's site would be suitable, and some of the fish listed in the "beginner fish" as well. You'll note that if you click on each fish, some guidelines are given about the species' aggressiveness and minimum tank size are also listed.

[SaltyDoug]

Originally Posted by SturgeonTale

Thanks! Like I said I'm in no hurry, but now I know what to look for when researching, gathering or looking for supplies.

Oh okay, if a flame angel is too big for my tank is there a different fish you could suggest in its stead? I'd like to have something with similar colors and body shape but I'm open minded.

The closest you'll find might be a pygmy
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...446&pcatid=446
but even they need a 55, I read they can get pretty agressive

[SturgeonTale]

Originally Posted by R6_boogieman

hello sturgeontale i would start with simple fish like some clowns and kind of get used to the routine of feeding fish and water changes, keeping perameters at point its a big must specially if you want your tank to be happy. i would stay away from all those fancy fish for now. its like getting a exotic car before u even learn how to drive. not trying to discourage you in anyway but my best advise would be to start off real small and kind of get your feet wet so you can build a routine on having fish first then see if you can maintain the parameters. if its doesnt work atleast you can say u didnt go all out and bought all those expensive fish for no reason.

That's definitely good advise, and that's probably how I would do it. I would probably introduce one species at a time and let the tank stabilize (let myself stabilize) before adding more to the community. Clownfish are good ones to start off with then? That's actually good to hear, they're one of my favorite saltwater fish.

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Well, given your chosen tank size, any of the "nano fish" that are listed on Live Aquaria's site would be suitable, and some of the fish listed in the "beginner fish" as well. You'll note that if you click on each fish, some guidelines are given about the species' aggressiveness and minimum tank size are also listed.

That sounds good, dkeller_nc. I'll take a look there for sure. Thank you for all your help.

Originally Posted by SaltyDoug

The closest you'll find might be a pygmy
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...446&pcatid=446
but even they need a 55, I read they can get pretty agressive

Thanks SaltyDoug, I'll do some more reading and keep looking for my ideal community.