Graph of VDM outputs?

staplesofficewr · 08/19/2014, 10:29 AM

I would like to see the % output of each of my VDM ports. If I graph them now, it just shows what profile they are running. I cannot graph the profiles. Is there a way to do this?
I would really like to see the graphical representation of my white and blue outputs.

kurt_n · 08/19/2014, 02:23 PM

I believe using Fusion you can see the output graphs like you want. But just using the webpages by themselves, no, there's no way to do that.

staplesofficewr · 08/19/2014, 05:21 PM

Well that's unfortunate!

Do you know if apex has a "feature request" area? I can think of two things off the bat.
- ability to show the 0-10 outlets voltage on the graphs
- increased resolution of the outputs..The outputs increment over 100 steps(not sure why 100 bits: 7bits=128, 6bits=64...so we are 6.5 bits?. It would be nice to see some 10 bit stuff (1024 steps). Not sure if their hardware is limited or if its a firmware thing.

aleithol · 08/19/2014, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staplesofficewr

...Do you know if apex has a "feature request" area?

Yes, there are threads over on Neptune Community Forums. When you put in the suggestion, it's typically best to also say WHY you want something... sort of a quick sell job to hopefully get attention and prioritization to the myriad of requests.

Requests for future firmware (aka "classic/native" interface) can go here
Fusion-specific requests can go here

kurt_n · 08/19/2014, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staplesofficewr

Well that's unfortunate!

Do you know if apex has a "feature request" area? I can think of two things off the bat.....

As Bert mentioned, yes... you can request features.

However, the feature you're looking for is available - you just have to be using Fusion to have it. And I'm 99.9% sure that's the answer you'll get from Neptune.

From what I've gleaned over the last many moons, new features will continue to be added to the Apex, but you'll need to be running Fusion to access them. Pretty sure the features resident in the base unit itself will not evolve much.

aleithol · 08/20/2014, 04:28 AM

FWIW, and not to be argumentative -- only helpful :-), today I believe Fusion graphing is limited to only probes (temp, pH, ORP, etc) and EB amperage, with a maximum of 2 items overlaid at a time -- whereas the native/classic dashboard graph function allows any probe or outlet to be graphed with more extensive overlay. There is no direct ability to select a profile for graphing from either interface I can find. I would be interested to know how to do more in Fusion if it is possible today, because I can't find it in the quick reference or it's not intuitive enough for my aging mind at this early hour to determine as I've explored it again just now.

As a suggestion to the OP in formulating their requirement submission, IMHO if I understand the original desire correctly, I doubt the request will be accepted by Neptune, as I think it could be problematic to have today's controller with it's fixed memory and no external storage to log even more detailed activity of variable speed ports. Today, data is first collected by the Apex Controller locally, then periodically mined and brought up to Fusion when there is network connectivity if it is so enabled by the user. Critical constraints beyond capturing broad profile usage like we have today, would have to be put in place by the developers as it could be just too much data in too short of a period of time for the Apex to handle while still getting productive work accomplished in a timely manner. Consider how much data would be produced when using a ramp of say 0-100% every few seconds on a varspeed pump and trying to record each of those points for just one port, let alone multiples. With limited memory, even if the processor could keep up with recording, logging would quickly wrap around overwriting itself in the memory available in any controller today. Some people that use rapidly changing OSC's used to blow through how much history they could retain before selective outlet logging was implemented just a few weeks ago in the latest 7A14 firmware -- let alone if that sort of data capture became even more granular. Anywho's, OP, I could be off-base with your intent, but if not, perhaps that gives you some additional thoughts to consider to help formulate your thoughts into a solid and practical desire you can suggest. Good luck!

aleithol · 08/20/2014, 06:16 AM

OP, one other related thought as a variant to what Kurt was suggesting perhaps... It's not exactly what you're looking for, but part way there perhaps:

Rather than use profiles to manage your varspeed ports, consider switching over to use a Fusion Wizard with tdata that it will mange for you. That programming is done via a graphical interface which may be more to your liking and will show you the approximation of % output at any time throughout the day. Unlike when using traditional profiles, using the Fusion Wizard with it's tdata will cause your Apex to additionally interpolate and smooth out what transpires between the data points you specify. This way, you could see a graphical approximation of "what will happen" at any point in time via Fusion, and you may then like the presentation of historical graph data in the existing classic/dashboard for your varspeed ports better than what you are used to with profiles today. ...at least the combination is something you may want to explore.

staplesofficewr · 08/20/2014, 08:25 AM

Thanks for the update guys....

I just had a brain fart...all this time I had assumed that "fusion" was a device I buy to add this functionality. I tried to find where to buy this gem at, but couldnt...It looks like this a new feature from them web-based?!

aleithol · 08/20/2014, 08:56 AM

Yup, Fusion is free to all Apex owners as an alternative (or perhaps, preferred) primary interface to one's controller. THIS helps get everyone started.

RussM · 08/20/2014, 11:24 AM

Quote:

... increased resolution of the outputs..The outputs increment over 100 steps(not sure why 100 bits: 7bits=128, 6bits=64...so we are 6.5 bits?

The input values are in %, yes, but the output is not in 1% steps. Testing I've done with a datalogging voltmeter and a very long ramp time indicates that the output is controlled by an 8-bit word fed to a D-A converter, resulting in 256 steps of about 0.065v each.

staplesofficewr · 08/20/2014, 12:42 PM

Ah. I see. The 8bits makes a whole lot more sense. Still would be nicer at 10 bits. I went to PWM on my lights cause the 0-10 drivers were not very good. The converter can go lower (10 bit) but with such "large" voltage drops, the PWM converter also jumps

08/19/2014, 10:29 AM	#1
staplesofficewr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 190	Graph of VDM outputs? I would like to see the % output of each of my VDM ports. If I graph them now, it just shows what profile they are running. I cannot graph the profiles. Is there a way to do this? I would really like to see the graphical representation of my white and blue outputs. __________________ "It's hard to be superman when you are surrounded by kryptonite"

08/19/2014, 05:21 PM	#3
staplesofficewr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 190	Well that's unfortunate! Do you know if apex has a "feature request" area? I can think of two things off the bat. - ability to show the 0-10 outlets voltage on the graphs - increased resolution of the outputs..The outputs increment over 100 steps(not sure why 100 bits: 7bits=128, 6bits=64...so we are 6.5 bits?. It would be nice to see some 10 bit stuff (1024 steps). Not sure if their hardware is limited or if its a firmware thing. __________________ "It's hard to be superman when you are surrounded by kryptonite"

08/20/2014, 04:28 AM	#6
aleithol Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 425	FWIW, and not to be argumentative -- only helpful :-), today I believe Fusion graphing is limited to only probes (temp, pH, ORP, etc) and EB amperage, with a maximum of 2 items overlaid at a time -- whereas the native/classic dashboard graph function allows any probe or outlet to be graphed with more extensive overlay. There is no direct ability to select a profile for graphing from either interface I can find. I would be interested to know how to do more in Fusion if it is possible today, because I can't find it in the quick reference or it's not intuitive enough for my aging mind at this early hour to determine as I've explored it again just now. As a suggestion to the OP in formulating their requirement submission, IMHO if I understand the original desire correctly, I doubt the request will be accepted by Neptune, as I think it could be problematic to have today's controller with it's fixed memory and no external storage to log even more detailed activity of variable speed ports. Today, data is first collected by the Apex Controller locally, then periodically mined and brought up to Fusion when there is network connectivity if it is so enabled by the user. Critical constraints beyond capturing broad profile usage like we have today, would have to be put in place by the developers as it could be just too much data in too short of a period of time for the Apex to handle while still getting productive work accomplished in a timely manner. Consider how much data would be produced when using a ramp of say 0-100% every few seconds on a varspeed pump and trying to record each of those points for just one port, let alone multiples. With limited memory, even if the processor could keep up with recording, logging would quickly wrap around overwriting itself in the memory available in any controller today. Some people that use rapidly changing OSC's used to blow through how much history they could retain before selective outlet logging was implemented just a few weeks ago in the latest 7A14 firmware -- let alone if that sort of data capture became even more granular. Anywho's, OP, I could be off-base with your intent, but if not, perhaps that gives you some additional thoughts to consider to help formulate your thoughts into a solid and practical desire you can suggest. Good luck! __________________ Bert

08/20/2014, 06:16 AM	#7
aleithol Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 425	OP, one other related thought as a variant to what Kurt was suggesting perhaps... It's not exactly what you're looking for, but part way there perhaps: Rather than use profiles to manage your varspeed ports, consider switching over to use a Fusion Wizard with tdata that it will mange for you. That programming is done via a graphical interface which may be more to your liking and will show you the approximation of % output at any time throughout the day. Unlike when using traditional profiles, using the Fusion Wizard with it's tdata will cause your Apex to additionally interpolate and smooth out what transpires between the data points you specify. This way, you could see a graphical approximation of "what will happen" at any point in time via Fusion, and you may then like the presentation of historical graph data in the existing classic/dashboard for your varspeed ports better than what you are used to with profiles today. ...at least the combination is something you may want to explore. __________________ Bert

08/20/2014, 08:25 AM	#8
staplesofficewr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 190	Thanks for the update guys.... I just had a brain fart...all this time I had assumed that "fusion" was a device I buy to add this functionality. I tried to find where to buy this gem at, but couldnt...It looks like this a new feature from them web-based?! __________________ "It's hard to be superman when you are surrounded by kryptonite"

08/19/2014, 02:23 PM	#2
kurt_n Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: WA Posts: 2,592	I believe using Fusion you can see the output graphs like you want. But just using the webpages by themselves, no, there's no way to do that.

08/20/2014, 08:56 AM	#9
aleithol Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 425	Yup, Fusion is free to all Apex owners as an alternative (or perhaps, preferred) primary interface to one's controller. THIS helps get everyone started. __________________ Bert

08/20/2014, 12:42 PM	#11
staplesofficewr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 190	Ah. I see. The 8bits makes a whole lot more sense. Still would be nicer at 10 bits. I went to PWM on my lights cause the 0-10 drivers were not very good. The converter can go lower (10 bit) but with such "large" voltage drops, the PWM converter also jumps __________________ "It's hard to be superman when you are surrounded by kryptonite"