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Unread 09/14/2009, 11:53 AM   #76
GSMguy
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy B.
Microbubbles will not be fixed by anything other than decreasing the air draw, and increasing the water flow.

Jeremy what is the logic or theory behind that? It is my understanding that if you increase waterflow the bubbles will not be able to separate from the water column (think the swirling in a seaclone) and they will still blow microbubbles out, klaus said the pumps have a 1:2 air to water ratio, increasing it to 1:3 wont stop the bubbles increasing the base diameter or using a pump with closer to 1:1 will help. If you do reduce the air you wont be able to build foam in that large neck.

the 1500 motorblock on a 7" base diameter skimmer is the issue IMO you can try to fix it by using less pins or shorter pins but then you reduce friction and get the surging.


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Current Tank Info: 48"x27"x14" Envision Acrylic rimless, 6x39w ATi Sunpower, Custom ATB Deluxe Skimmer, 4x tunze nano stream,ATB flowstar 1500, ACJR, Tunze osmolator.
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Unread 09/14/2009, 01:16 PM   #77
subman719
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My 170 is using the 1000 motor/pump. Is that the normal pump for the 170's?


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Unread 09/14/2009, 02:32 PM   #78
crab0000
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Mine has the 1000 too.




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Unread 09/14/2009, 02:35 PM   #79
Jeremy B.
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Quote:
Originally posted by GSMguy
Jeremy what is the logic or theory behind that? It is my understanding that if you increase waterflow the bubbles will not be able to separate from the water column (think the swirling in a seaclone) and they will still blow microbubbles out, klaus said the pumps have a 1:2 air to water ratio, increasing it to 1:3 wont stop the bubbles increasing the base diameter or using a pump with closer to 1:1 will help. If you do reduce the air you wont be able to build foam in that large neck.

the 1500 motorblock on a 7" base diameter skimmer is the issue IMO you can try to fix it by using less pins or shorter pins but then you reduce friction and get the surging.
I'm just referring to this particular application. There is no theory behind it, just the reality of it. Have you had a chance to run the 170 so that you're familiar with the physics of this particular this unit? It is a very tricky skimmer to set up, and probably the hardest of them all in my opinion, as you are eluding to the pump being so big for the skimmer that it is, which I agree.


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Unread 09/14/2009, 02:41 PM   #80
subman719
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I LOVE the pump! It is by far the smoothest and quietest skimmer pump I've ever had!


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Current Tank Info: 90 Gal - Mixed Reef, 75 gal and 40 gal holding tanks. 20 gal mini reef and several fish only PICO tanks.
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Unread 09/14/2009, 03:23 PM   #81
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Micro bubble

Hi to all. Jeremy ask for pics,i try to upload 3 or 4


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Unread 09/14/2009, 03:33 PM   #82
GSMguy
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Quote:
Originally posted by subman719
My 170 is using the 1000 motor/pump. Is that the normal pump for the 170's?

Sorry not my intention to confuse just offering my opinion, the motor block on the 170 is the same as the 1500 but the 170 has shorter pins on the pinwheel and I there are differences in the volute that make it a RD 1000 but it is the same block (lots of torque) I am sure given a chance klaus, proline, and Premium will get the issues ironed out.

I have not had a chance to play with a 170 yet it just seems to me that an easy fix would be to make an impellar that keeps the air the same while reducing the waterflow. That is if it can be done without the surging.


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Current Tank Info: 48"x27"x14" Envision Acrylic rimless, 6x39w ATi Sunpower, Custom ATB Deluxe Skimmer, 4x tunze nano stream,ATB flowstar 1500, ACJR, Tunze osmolator.
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Unread 09/14/2009, 03:34 PM   #83
Jeremy B.
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Thanks for posting the pics. Can you show a picture of the bottom of the cone that shows the relation of the bubble column inside the skimmer versus how far it is from the bubble plate?

Thanks,
Jeremy


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Unread 09/14/2009, 03:36 PM   #84
Jeremy B.
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Quote:
Originally posted by GSMguy
I have not had a chance to play with a 170 yet it just seems to me that an easy fix would be to make an impellar that keeps the air the same while reducing the waterflow. That is if it can be done without the surging.
Good point, I am wondering if a smaller diameter impeller overall with the same size pins would do the trick. I have a few things coming to try and see what it will do.


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Unread 09/14/2009, 03:53 PM   #85
janos
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Micro bubble

Hi again,Jeremy i try to upload more,if not good,tell me how close you want the pics. [IMG] http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...67_9140818.jpg [/IMG] [IMG] http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...67_9140818.jpg [/IMG]


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Unread 09/14/2009, 04:06 PM   #86
Wd40
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Awesome Picture Janos..
Jeremy that is what my 170 looks like.. Just a tad less micro bubbles..
Janos what depth and what nozzle you running?


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Unread 09/14/2009, 04:16 PM   #87
janos
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Hi Wd40 Skimmer sitting in 10 " Water and 58 mil nozzle
Sorry Jeremy don't have macro lens,so can not go to close to the sump,but the bubble almost sitting on the plate.No more then 1/4"forming above the plate



Last edited by janos; 09/14/2009 at 04:24 PM.
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Unread 09/14/2009, 04:30 PM   #88
Wd40
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yeah with the 58mm nozzle its gonna sit on the plate. Im running mine @ 9" with the 59mm nozzle. I think we got to run them at 8" to avoid the microbubbles. Im waiting for jeremy to respond back to me to see what he thinks..


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Unread 09/14/2009, 04:49 PM   #89
subman719
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Wd40- try doing what I have (which i jus re-checked). If you have a 59mm nozzle in there, slide it out 3mm so it's the equivalent of a 56mm nozzle. If the bubbles are out of control and below the bubble plate, wiggle the nose cone in about 1mm and see what happens. Get the skimmer to be in 8 to 9 inches of water and re-adjust your wedge pipe. If you can, please try this and let me know how it works for you.


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Current Tank Info: 90 Gal - Mixed Reef, 75 gal and 40 gal holding tanks. 20 gal mini reef and several fish only PICO tanks.
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Unread 09/14/2009, 04:56 PM   #90
Wd40
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I will subman but i dont get home till wednesday.
However if i pull it out to 56 thats more air which would = more microbubbles right?? or am i wrong


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Unread 09/14/2009, 05:04 PM   #91
subman719
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Yes, it does add air and will most likely create more bubbles. Do you have a surging problem or just too much bubbles coming out of the exhaust pipe? If no surging and too many bubbles, try going the opposite way with the nozzle by just pushing the nozzle (not the whole nose piece) in about 1mm to restrict a little more air. (Be VERY CAREFUL not to go in too far and hit the impeller!) My bubbles are about 3/4 inch above my bubble plate and I have very minimal bubbles coming out of my exhaust, which I believe is normal. I've been experimenting witha adjustments and I believe these proceedures can work.


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Current Tank Info: 90 Gal - Mixed Reef, 75 gal and 40 gal holding tanks. 20 gal mini reef and several fish only PICO tanks.
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Unread 09/14/2009, 05:13 PM   #92
Wd40
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3/4" above your bubble plate?!
My bubbles sit on top of the bubble cup! And im getting a lot of bubbles, and no no surging problem. I actually skim well.
But yeah i guess ill try pushing it out 1mm and see what happens


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Unread 09/14/2009, 05:20 PM   #93
subman719
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Ok, sounds like you have to opposite problem of what I had so yes, you nee to "restrict" the airflow a bit by pushing the nozzle "IN" 1mm (towards the impeller). If you need to go in more, make sure you have enought clearance and go in 1 more mm for a total of 2mm in.


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Current Tank Info: 90 Gal - Mixed Reef, 75 gal and 40 gal holding tanks. 20 gal mini reef and several fish only PICO tanks.
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Unread 09/14/2009, 05:36 PM   #94
Wd40
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sounds good buddy i appreciate the help greatly! What do you think of me raising the skimmer to 8" first. Wouldnt that itslef restrict airflow?
Also how much air can i restrict before i start running into foam production/skimmate issues, you know what I mean?
Thanx again


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Unread 09/14/2009, 09:31 PM   #95
subman719
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wd40
sounds good buddy i appreciate the help greatly! What do you think of me raising the skimmer to 8" first. Wouldn't that itself restrict airflow?
Also how much air can i restrict before i start running into foam production/skimmate issues, you know what I mean?
Thanx again
You're welcome! I believe that if you put the skimmer at 8", you might get more air bubbles due to lower backpressure therefore allowing air pressure to overcome the water pressure. In liquids, the deeper you go, the greater the pressure. As for "how far you can go", keep making minute 1mm adjustments till the exhaust bubbles are reduced and the bubbles are above the bubble plate about 3/4 inch. If you go too far, you'll know it! You may get the surging problem and bubble/foam production will decrease. If that happens, just undo your last adjustment one step at a time till you get it optimized. I found that when I had the surging problem and no micro bubbles coming out of the exhaust, I also had lousy foam production, so some microbubbles escaping are ok! If you're getting microbubbles back into the tank, you may need to put a foam block, mesh, bio-balls or rock rubble in the baffle area going to the return pump. My sump came with the foam block for that purpose so I don't have bubbles fiinding their way through.


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"Fish are Friends, NOT Food!" - Finding Nemo

Current Tank Info: 90 Gal - Mixed Reef, 75 gal and 40 gal holding tanks. 20 gal mini reef and several fish only PICO tanks.
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Unread 09/15/2009, 07:59 AM   #96
Wd40
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Yeah i just hate those foam blocks.. Cleaning wise you know.
I understand what you mean by the deeper you go the greater the pressure, Makes sense. Thanx
Ill let you know what happens tomorrow..


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Unread 09/15/2009, 08:51 AM   #97
subman719
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You're welcome. Believe me, I have both the filter sock and the foam block, both are a pain to clean but they do help greatly in keeping crud out of the tank so I just suck it up even though I hate it. Looking forward to your results.


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Current Tank Info: 90 Gal - Mixed Reef, 75 gal and 40 gal holding tanks. 20 gal mini reef and several fish only PICO tanks.
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Unread 09/15/2009, 06:54 PM   #98
7thheaven
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Hi all~

What is proper water level of alpha 250 model in sump?

10 inches?


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Unread 09/15/2009, 10:04 PM   #99
kvmn
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9" with new 47mm thin nozzle here,,

Quote:
Originally posted by 7thheaven
Hi all~

What is proper water level of alpha 250 model in sump?

10 inches?



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Unread 09/15/2009, 11:40 PM   #100
Dave's Reef
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Quote:
Originally posted by kvmn
9" with new 47mm thin nozzle here,,
I've found that my sweet spot is at 9.5". For some reason 9" gives too much air but raising it a half an inch has made just the right levels of water and air.

I'm getting a lot more stuff gunked up in the neck and on the lid now and I never really had it do that too much before. Always a good amount of skimmate but just not much goo in the neck and such.

I've had it this way going on the 3rd week now and it seems to get better each week. Tried it at 9" for a week and had it at 10" for a long time and for whatever reason 9.5" seems to be the sweet spot for me!

Just my .02


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