Radion XR30 vs XR15 vs Kessil A360WE vs AI Hydra 26 / 52

msayani2 · 11/29/2015, 02:20 AM

Hey.. so I have a 135 gallon Shallow tank, that is currently a FOWLR but would like to get it to be a mixed reef with LPS/softies in a couple of months. For the next 2 years, no SPS corals will be put it as I want to see how successful I will be with the tank.

Specs - 60" x 28" x 20" tall glass tank.

Lighting Options:

1. two Kessil A360WEs
2. two or three XR15w pros
3. two XR30w
4. two AI Hydra 26
5. two AI Hydra 52

This is quite the investment so I want to do it well. I need feedback/opinions from people with experience with reefkeeping and all or some of the above lights over the relative long term.

Prompt responses are highly appreciated as I would like to order in the next 48hrs (Black friday sale period)

mikeatjac · 11/29/2015, 04:28 AM

Not sure if 2 units of any of your choices will be enough.

msayani2 · 11/29/2015, 06:28 AM

ok.. let me know model and quantity then.

Also keep in mind that this tank will not have SPS corals.

richieii · 11/29/2015, 07:09 AM

I know you said no sps but it would be hard to hold back if you had a Giesemann Aurora-Hybrid LED/T5 Fixture on top of that tank. 2 years down the road if you wanted to ad some you would be good to go. If I bought that fixture it would take me at least 2 years to pay back the loan before i could afford any sps.

dkeller_nc · 11/29/2015, 07:41 AM

Given the length of your tank (and also its width - 28"), 2 fixtures will be inadequate for any of the brands you've listed. This is the achilles heel of most current LED fixtures - they are point sources that have very high intensity directly under the fixture, but nowhere near the spread of the older T5HO and metal halide options.

My suggestion is that you invest the 1-1/2 hours this morning required to watch the BRS 160 videos about T5HO, Metal Halide and LED light fixtures in episodes 19, 20 and 21 on you tube. You'll get a fast education about spread and PAR capabilities of the various options, along with some actual data about light intensity and running costs.

Give your tank's length, the fact that you want LPS to begin with, and presumably have about a $800 - $1500 budget, I'd strongly recommend going with a 60" 8-bulb T5HO fixture (the eight bulb option primarily because of your tank's width), or on the higher end of capability but also price, an ATI or Giesemann LED/T5HO hybrid fixture. BRS is a good place to purchase one, and the only dealer in the US that I'm aware of for the Giesemann fixtures. Another good source for ATI fixtures is Premium Aquatics.

ghostman · 11/29/2015, 07:57 AM

I have several opinions, and they are based off of my experiences. You currently have a 48" 8 Bulb Sunpower which would certainly cover your new tank and be able to grow SPS from edge to edge, water top down to the sand. This is certainly the cheapest option since you own the equipment, and IMO, the BEST option. For added "pop" you could add 48" Reefbrite Actinic XHO strips to the front and back. They bolt right on to the Sunpower and look beautiful.

If you are dead set on buying LEDs, then I think you need 3 of the larger units to adequately cover the tank for future SPS. I would say 3 hydra52HDs, or a minimum 2 Hydra52HDs, with a Hydra26HD in the middle. This would give you decent coverage with minimal hot or shadowed areas.

I love the shimmer of Kessils, but they are not everyones tastes. If you go with the Kessils, I think you would need 3 of the 360WEs to cover the tank well. The blue on Kessils is nice, but I'm not happy with the white coloration. I think its personal taste.

You mentioned "long term" for your decision making. LEDs are being improved every year, and new models have increased spectrum and features. I don't think that LEDs are very good long term investments. The upfront costs of the fixtures are quite expensive, the electric savings is questionable unless heat is a major issue, and used fixtures that are a few years old are everywhere for significantly less money as they are lack spectrum (UV, violet, reds, ambers), and are not in high demand. Once again, this is my opinion. I hope you get more responses to help you make an informed decision.

kenpau · 11/29/2015, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostman

I think you need 3 of the larger units to adequately cover the tank for future SPS. I would say 3 hydra52HDs, or a minimum 2 Hydra52HDs, with a Hydra26HD in the middle. This would give you decent coverage with minimal hot or shadowed areas.

I definitely second this, I had 3 Hydra52s on my 150 and it wasn't enough for total SPS coverage but certainly would be enough for wall to wall LPS/softies. If you wanted SPS in the future you'd probably need to add a fourth fixture but this is easily done with the Hydra52s.

msayani2 · 11/29/2015, 09:54 PM

Please consider the following..

I currently reside in the middle east.. i bought a sunpower earlier as you could get ati t5 bulbs easily in the country.. but since it is not like that anymore and it is tough to get 4' bulbs.. i decided to switch to sell the ati and switch to led.. i got a decent resale value and thats why i am considering using that money + a bit more to get LEDs. I dont plan to keep SPS at all. Only LPS and softies.

Please give recommendations for LEDs based on the above information. importing t5s is far too expensive as the shipping costs are over $250-300.

Swetpants · 11/29/2015, 11:30 PM

Here are my thoughts. My tank is a 100 gallon. 60" long 18" wide 24" tall. I run 2 Radion XR30w with the wide angle lens (120*). It is a mixed reef tank with softies and SPS. I have a PAR meter and get plenty of good numbers through out the tank. Obviously as you go further from the center the PAR numbers go down but could sustain softies no problem. I currently only run it at a max of 65% so there is a lot of room to get higher PAR outputs. So as long as your not packing your tank from wall to wall and are aware of where you are putting them in relation to the light you will have no Problem running 2 Radion XR30w on your setup. If your not satisfied you could always up grade to a third one down the line. They are great lights with unlimited possibilities.

jayball · 11/30/2015, 09:11 AM

With those I would say three of either the full size radions or hydra's in the widest angle lens available. Place them with the pucks oriented front to back rather than the regular side to side.

Just my opinion of course, I prefer a evenly lit tank. That 28 inches front to back is a killer, shame you can not get the bulbs any more.

Wazzel · 11/30/2015, 11:19 AM

At 60" long x 28" wide you are not going to get the coverage you need from 2 units on any of those. I run hydra 52's and 26's in my system. I would suggest 6 - hydra26's run in pairs. At 20" deep and no SPS power will not be an issue. 3 52's would be cheaper, but they only cover about 24" in the long axis well. The 26's do about 20" in the long well. Place them long axis frot to back and 9" centers.

If you are willing to give up a few inches of lighted space you could do 3 52's. Plan on lighting 20-24 inches of space and 3 52's will work.

In either case keep the scape low and flat, within reason. Steep scapes just make the shading issues more difficult to deal with.

hambone_smith · 11/30/2015, 09:36 PM

I have had the XR30, A350, and currently run the 52 and I have to say that I miss my Kessil's. I loved the shimmer and the coloration of my corals was amazing, not to mention the ease of use- you just turned the knobs with the A350. Kessil wins every time IMO.

11/29/2015, 02:20 AM	#1
msayani2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 114	Radion XR30 vs XR15 vs Kessil A360WE vs AI Hydra 26 / 52 Hey.. so I have a 135 gallon Shallow tank, that is currently a FOWLR but would like to get it to be a mixed reef with LPS/softies in a couple of months. For the next 2 years, no SPS corals will be put it as I want to see how successful I will be with the tank. Specs - 60" x 28" x 20" tall glass tank. Lighting Options: 1. two Kessil A360WEs 2. two or three XR15w pros 3. two XR30w 4. two AI Hydra 26 5. two AI Hydra 52 This is quite the investment so I want to do it well. I need feedback/opinions from people with experience with reefkeeping and all or some of the above lights over the relative long term. Prompt responses are highly appreciated as I would like to order in the next 48hrs (Black friday sale period) __________________ msayani2 Current Tank Info: 135G FOWLR/softies tank, 30G Sump, JNS sk2 skimmer,GEO 618 , Vertex RxU 2.0 GFO reac, 2xTunze 6105/Tunze 7096, 2x Kessil A360WE, Sicce 4 return pump

11/29/2015, 06:28 AM	#3
msayani2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 114	ok.. let me know model and quantity then. Also keep in mind that this tank will not have SPS corals. __________________ msayani2 Current Tank Info: 135G FOWLR/softies tank, 30G Sump, JNS sk2 skimmer,GEO 618 , Vertex RxU 2.0 GFO reac, 2xTunze 6105/Tunze 7096, 2x Kessil A360WE, Sicce 4 return pump

11/29/2015, 07:57 AM	#6
ghostman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Spring Hill, Florida Posts: 1,629	I have several opinions, and they are based off of my experiences. You currently have a 48" 8 Bulb Sunpower which would certainly cover your new tank and be able to grow SPS from edge to edge, water top down to the sand. This is certainly the cheapest option since you own the equipment, and IMO, the BEST option. For added "pop" you could add 48" Reefbrite Actinic XHO strips to the front and back. They bolt right on to the Sunpower and look beautiful. If you are dead set on buying LEDs, then I think you need 3 of the larger units to adequately cover the tank for future SPS. I would say 3 hydra52HDs, or a minimum 2 Hydra52HDs, with a Hydra26HD in the middle. This would give you decent coverage with minimal hot or shadowed areas. I love the shimmer of Kessils, but they are not everyones tastes. If you go with the Kessils, I think you would need 3 of the 360WEs to cover the tank well. The blue on Kessils is nice, but I'm not happy with the white coloration. I think its personal taste. You mentioned "long term" for your decision making. LEDs are being improved every year, and new models have increased spectrum and features. I don't think that LEDs are very good long term investments. The upfront costs of the fixtures are quite expensive, the electric savings is questionable unless heat is a major issue, and used fixtures that are a few years old are everywhere for significantly less money as they are lack spectrum (UV, violet, reds, ambers), and are not in high demand. Once again, this is my opinion. I hope you get more responses to help you make an informed decision. __________________ When you die, you don't know you're dead. It's only difficult for the people around you. It's the same when you're stupid. Current Tank Info: 40IM Fusion, 40lbs of rock, and 20lbs of sand. Just a few fish and corals....for now.

11/30/2015, 11:19 AM	#11
Wazzel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 4,743	At 60" long x 28" wide you are not going to get the coverage you need from 2 units on any of those. I run hydra 52's and 26's in my system. I would suggest 6 - hydra26's run in pairs. At 20" deep and no SPS power will not be an issue. 3 52's would be cheaper, but they only cover about 24" in the long axis well. The 26's do about 20" in the long well. Place them long axis frot to back and 9" centers. If you are willing to give up a few inches of lighted space you could do 3 52's. Plan on lighting 20-24 inches of space and 3 52's will work. In either case keep the scape low and flat, within reason. Steep scapes just make the shading issues more difficult to deal with. __________________ Mark Beware the light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes it's a train. Current Tank Info: 120, LED, Bare Bottom, SPS/LPS

11/29/2015, 04:28 AM	#2
mikeatjac Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 2,433	Not sure if 2 units of any of your choices will be enough.

11/29/2015, 07:09 AM	#4
richieii Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 54	I know you said no sps but it would be hard to hold back if you had a Giesemann Aurora-Hybrid LED/T5 Fixture on top of that tank. 2 years down the road if you wanted to ad some you would be good to go. If I bought that fixture it would take me at least 2 years to pay back the loan before i could afford any sps.

11/29/2015, 07:41 AM	#5
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	Given the length of your tank (and also its width - 28"), 2 fixtures will be inadequate for any of the brands you've listed. This is the achilles heel of most current LED fixtures - they are point sources that have very high intensity directly under the fixture, but nowhere near the spread of the older T5HO and metal halide options. My suggestion is that you invest the 1-1/2 hours this morning required to watch the BRS 160 videos about T5HO, Metal Halide and LED light fixtures in episodes 19, 20 and 21 on you tube. You'll get a fast education about spread and PAR capabilities of the various options, along with some actual data about light intensity and running costs. Give your tank's length, the fact that you want LPS to begin with, and presumably have about a $800 - $1500 budget, I'd strongly recommend going with a 60" 8-bulb T5HO fixture (the eight bulb option primarily because of your tank's width), or on the higher end of capability but also price, an ATI or Giesemann LED/T5HO hybrid fixture. BRS is a good place to purchase one, and the only dealer in the US that I'm aware of for the Giesemann fixtures. Another good source for ATI fixtures is Premium Aquatics.

11/29/2015, 09:54 PM	#8
msayani2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 114	Please consider the following.. I currently reside in the middle east.. i bought a sunpower earlier as you could get ati t5 bulbs easily in the country.. but since it is not like that anymore and it is tough to get 4' bulbs.. i decided to switch to sell the ati and switch to led.. i got a decent resale value and thats why i am considering using that money + a bit more to get LEDs. I dont plan to keep SPS at all. Only LPS and softies. Please give recommendations for LEDs based on the above information. importing t5s is far too expensive as the shipping costs are over $250-300.

11/29/2015, 11:30 PM	#9
Swetpants Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Huntington Beach, ca Posts: 65	Here are my thoughts. My tank is a 100 gallon. 60" long 18" wide 24" tall. I run 2 Radion XR30w with the wide angle lens (120*). It is a mixed reef tank with softies and SPS. I have a PAR meter and get plenty of good numbers through out the tank. Obviously as you go further from the center the PAR numbers go down but could sustain softies no problem. I currently only run it at a max of 65% so there is a lot of room to get higher PAR outputs. So as long as your not packing your tank from wall to wall and are aware of where you are putting them in relation to the light you will have no Problem running 2 Radion XR30w on your setup. If your not satisfied you could always up grade to a third one down the line. They are great lights with unlimited possibilities.

11/30/2015, 09:11 AM	#10
jayball Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,671	With those I would say three of either the full size radions or hydra's in the widest angle lens available. Place them with the pucks oriented front to back rather than the regular side to side. Just my opinion of course, I prefer a evenly lit tank. That 28 inches front to back is a killer, shame you can not get the bulbs any more.

11/30/2015, 09:36 PM	#12
hambone_smith Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Iowa Posts: 41	I have had the XR30, A350, and currently run the 52 and I have to say that I miss my Kessil's. I loved the shimmer and the coloration of my corals was amazing, not to mention the ease of use- you just turned the knobs with the A350. Kessil wins every time IMO.