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Unread 06/26/2017, 05:09 PM   #76
SFish
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This is just an example it doesn't apply to your pump but it will give you an idea of what you have to do.

The Eheim 1250 is rated for 6' 7" and has a speed of 317gph now if we look at the yellow line on the chart above we can see at 3' we are going to be running at only 200gph so we lost over 100gph with a pump that's made to be a return pump. Note this also assumes you are using hose not PVC. Your pump is not made to be a return pump so your loss would be even greater. You will have to look to see if there is a curve chart for that pump. My guess is no because they don't generally do that for power heads and it's a cheap one at that. You may be able to get away with that pump if you over size it big time. You might get lucky and get 150gph out of that pump which would be good enough for you.



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Unread 06/26/2017, 05:26 PM   #77
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The best way to reduce the flow off the return pump is with a T like so




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Unread 06/26/2017, 07:10 PM   #78
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That's not the pump curve. That doesn't tell you the flow loss at 3'. In fact that doesn't even really tell you the flow at 0'. All they do is put the pump in a tank and see how high the water sprays to get the max head height. That's with no friction.
Edit: I mean max head height not 0'.


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Unread 06/26/2017, 07:13 PM   #79
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The baffles have to be glass because the tank is glass. Acrylic won't bond to glass.
What I mean to say is silicone doesn't adhere to acrylic very well. You may not get the baffles water tight for one and they may not stay in place. Also you would be able to pull the baffles out by hand so it's a very weak bond.



Last edited by SFish; 06/26/2017 at 07:19 PM.
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Unread 06/26/2017, 08:13 PM   #80
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Quote:
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That's not the pump curve. That doesn't tell you the flow loss at 3'. In fact that doesn't even really tell you the flow at 0'. All they do is put the pump in a tank and see how high the water sprays to get the max head height. That's with no friction.
Not sure what you are saying here the chart indicates the first pump has a 0 head rating of 75gph and h ( head) max ie cut off at 2.5 feet... not sure which pump the op is using but that chart is more then sufficient to generalize flow at 3'.... one must also consider pipe diameter number of elbows bends etc etc as they all add head pressure...

matching your pump to your overflow is the most useless dumb thing to do... your pump should be considerably more powerful then the overflow rating... and the gurgling is generally not from too low of flow but rather too much flow drawing in air. The overflow in question here is very small single pipe (3/4") I am guessing... which will handle diddly squat for flow...

And the concern with acrylic baffles in a glass tank is not adhesion but swelling... acrylic absorbs water, it swells as it does it... swells too much it blows out the tank... if you use hone depot crap acrylic then yes adhesion will also suck... glass for glass, acrylic for acrylic...i really dont see why this is debated it simply does not make sense...kinda like ditching a car with Bondi or fiberglass, the materials don't have the same thermal characteristics they crack break and fall apart... same as our tanks when you mix materials.


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Unread 06/26/2017, 08:43 PM   #81
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That chart is not for OP's pump. Also he has the valve party closed on the overflow and it still has a low level. There is no way he has to much pump for the overflow box. The chart he posted doesn't show head loss. I never said to match the pump and overflow. In fact I said to dial the pump back. That being said if you over size the pump by to much your wasting money.



Last edited by SFish; 06/26/2017 at 09:05 PM.
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Unread 06/26/2017, 09:21 PM   #82
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I forgot about the expanding but I have also read the bond is weak between the two. I know people who have had acrylic baffles in for years and not blown the glass out. I'm not saying it can't happen but I think the baffles will pop out before that will happen. Then again I never tried it my self and would not do so.






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Unread 06/26/2017, 11:18 PM   #83
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NanoReefWanabe, I went with the eco396.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0018...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The rise from the pump to the top of the display is roughly 2.5 feet. The pump is rated at 396 gph. I don't think I'm losing much of that over my short distance.

The overflow does use 3/4". It's the pf-nano rated for 200gph.
http://m.drsfostersmith.com/product/...m?pcatid=18358

Using a gate valve I can tune the pump to the overflow and be okay according to the recommendation here:
http://m.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=135
"turn over your aquarium volume four times per hour. This means that if you have a 30 gallon tank, you need a pump and filter with flow rates of around 120 gph."

I'm sure to be pumping more than the 120gph mentioned. But my tank will be planted so I may adjust it down later if the plants don't like the flow.

SFish, I spent some time looking for some glass and it looks like I'll have to order it and cut it down myself if I want to go that rout. I'm wondering if lowes would cut glass I bring in.

I'm still thinking I might do acrylic.. Depends how much hassle the glass will be.


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Unread 06/27/2017, 04:23 AM   #84
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You can try the acrylic but I wouldn't have high hopes for it. Be sure to leave a gap on the sides. All you can do with the pump is give it a shot and see what happens. It maybe to weak or you maybe fine. With out a curve chart you have to guess. As stated some pumps handle head pressure better than others. Im general you want to oversize the pump some what any way. You would pick a pump rated for a bit over 120gph at 2 1/2' which is what you would use the chart for. If you went crazy and did a pump rated for 1000gph at that height then you wast money on the pump and to run the pump at a higher speed. At such a low speed you maybe ok. 3 to 5x is normal turn over.



Last edited by SFish; 06/27/2017 at 04:39 AM.
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Unread 06/27/2017, 07:19 PM   #85
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Got the pump in today as well as the k1 micro media for the fluid bed. Guess I should test it out.


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Unread 06/27/2017, 07:35 PM   #86
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Yeah without actual curve chart you are guessing... from his chart he posted... he is looking at 396gph with a cut off at 6.5ft... being very generous i would guess 150-200gph at 3' vertical lift... then add three frictional loses from pipe diameter, elbows etc....i would bet that generously you might get 50-75gph to the tank


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Unread 06/27/2017, 09:42 PM   #87
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Still getting lots of gurgling noise that only stops when I reduce flow from the overflow box with the ball valve. I think I'm just going to drill another hole for an unregulated backup line to the sump.


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Unread 06/27/2017, 10:16 PM   #88
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That way I can maintain a full siphon.


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Unread 06/27/2017, 10:33 PM   #89
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To be honest I'm just getting frustrated trying to find the right balance here. I don't want to deal with a noisy overflow. It's it any better if I drill the tank?


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Unread 06/27/2017, 11:01 PM   #90
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This is the overflow right now. It's reduced by the ball valve.. (I know that offends some of your sensibilities ). The green ball you can see there is actually just a 25¢ rubber ball. Like from the grocery store quarter machines. It doesn't create a perfect seal so it acts like a cheap intake regulator. When the water rises above it I get a full siphon and higher flow rate. When the water drops below the ball I get air and some noise with reduced flow. Right now it's staying pretty quiet and generally maintaining the siphon.




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Unread 06/27/2017, 11:22 PM   #91
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I forgot to mention that ball also greatly reduces noise from the overflow when it's not a full siphon. So that little ball does some work.


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Unread 06/28/2017, 01:53 AM   #92
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Sorry about that picture being so huge! Its hard to tell when I upload from my phone.


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Unread 06/28/2017, 04:24 AM   #93
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You can try to make it into a Herbie overflow. Not sure what would happen or if you have room in that overflow box for that. Not sure what is causing the noise but again get rid of the valve unless you want a flood. Open the valve all the way and fill a cup. Time how long it takes. See how much flow you are really getting. Then you will have to guess again about what size pump to get. You would want to run a bean animal or herbie overflow in order to do what you want.



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Unread 06/28/2017, 05:49 AM   #94
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Yeah a herbie type setup is what I'm going for. I ordered a gate valve and another bulkhead fitting.


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Unread 06/28/2017, 06:37 AM   #95
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I would say the noise is likely from any open pipe draining.... can the foam be taken off the pipe and be replaced with a T fitting? Then you could Jane a durso with will inherently slow the flow down a bit


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Unread 06/28/2017, 08:09 AM   #96
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Yeah a herbie type setup is what I'm going for. I ordered a gate valve and another bulkhead fitting.
You will have to drill the overflow box. As long as the bulkhead fits it should work.


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Unread 06/28/2017, 08:11 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by NanoReefWanabe View Post
I would say the noise is likely from any open pipe draining.... can the foam be taken off the pipe and be replaced with a T fitting? Then you could Jane a durso with will inherently slow the flow down a bit
That's what I was thinking. Don't know of a T will fit. It looks like a pretty small box.


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Unread 06/28/2017, 08:26 AM   #98
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The foam does come off but there really isn't any room for a durso. Let's hope I can drill the box without breaking it.


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Unread 06/28/2017, 10:19 AM   #99
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You can cut the socket ends of the fittings down by half... it really would not take up much more room then it does now


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Unread 06/28/2017, 11:10 AM   #100
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You will have to drill the box on the bottom. If you did it on the side and used a 90 it's not going to work right.


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