|
11/06/2017, 09:11 AM | #1 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Then and NOW
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FDt8QTAp0Cs
Tank video was 4 years ago. I had moved a 16 year old tank from DeRidder, La to Austin, Tx. 9 years ago. Two months ago, I turned out the lights on mud/macro refugium and seeded it for cryptic zone refugium. I have been slowly adding filter feeders to this tank.
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
11/06/2017, 09:13 AM | #2 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Fts
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
11/06/2017, 06:08 PM | #3 |
I'm really very likeable
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down Under
Posts: 676
|
So now that you have removed your macro algae what is you method of inorganic nutrient removal?
Where did you source your live rock, specifically with cryptic sponge(s) attached? |
11/06/2017, 06:11 PM | #4 |
I'm really very likeable
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down Under
Posts: 676
|
What filter feeders are you adding, to which zone, and where did you source these filter feeders?
|
11/06/2017, 06:29 PM | #5 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 342
|
Is that GSP on the back wall or algae??
|
11/06/2017, 11:08 PM | #6 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
11/06/2017, 11:21 PM | #7 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Quote:
Which inorganics are you talking about. Nitrate as an inorganic nutrient is used by both macro and coral and bacteria. I say when macro is removed; bacteria and coral have more food. Timfish brought me a seeded cryptic sponge rock. I could not begin to tell you the names of different sponges on it.
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
|
11/06/2017, 11:28 PM | #8 | |
I'm really very likeable
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down Under
Posts: 676
|
Quote:
They asked me what I was talking about? I'm talking NO3 PO4 ammonium. Do you have enough corals & invisible algae to take up the slack? Or don't you feed the tank much? |
|
11/06/2017, 11:33 PM | #9 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Quote:
Clams are a large consumer of inorganic nutrients and they require bright light. I am also using Red Tree Sponges. It took them a month to adjust to bright light. I made a shaded area for NPS arriving tomorrow from live-aquaria.com http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/2...c=597+600+2980
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
|
11/06/2017, 11:38 PM | #10 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Quote:
I feed heavily with fresh bivalves every day. I have plenty of coral biomass in this tank. In fact, I planned on removing the large Green Sinularia to use it as a center piece in 120G new build.
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
|
11/06/2017, 11:41 PM | #11 |
I'm really very likeable
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down Under
Posts: 676
|
Won't you be adding more food to the aquarium to feed the NSP.
Yes they filter feed, but they need to be fed the food to filter feed. |
11/06/2017, 11:54 PM | #12 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Quote:
I thought Steve’s seeded cryptic sponge rock was expensive. I know Steve differentiated cryptic sponges from the ones grown on the dark side of a rock wall. I could not tell you the difference. I believe, if you provide the right conditions, something good will grow on it. I am growing sponges, pods and worms in my refugium. Which sponges remove what? I don’t know and it would be difficult to know. Between the bacteria, the coral, the sponges and the algae there is a constate competition for nutrients.
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
|
11/06/2017, 11:58 PM | #13 |
I'm really very likeable
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down Under
Posts: 676
|
|
11/07/2017, 12:03 AM | #14 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Quote:
Bacteria, macro, corals and sponges all compete for nutrients.
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
|
11/07/2017, 12:14 AM | #15 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Quote:
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
|
11/07/2017, 12:22 AM | #16 | |
I'm really very likeable
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down Under
Posts: 676
|
Quote:
|
|
11/07/2017, 12:31 AM | #17 | |
I'm really very likeable
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down Under
Posts: 676
|
Quote:
Not too much oxygen (anoxic) not too little (anaerobic). Then it can only process so much. A couple of fish, plenty of water changes, ok. But if you have an aquarium stocked like many people do, the typical amount of live rock ain't gunna cut it. Of course, if you only have a few fish, & plenty of photosynthesising corals, should be no problem. |
|
11/07/2017, 01:12 AM | #18 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Balancing Act
Quote:
The whole point to using natural filtration in our reef tank is multiple food webs to process nutrients and feed the tank live food. I believe that to my core and I have stepped out to excercise this core belief. My 25 year old Jaubert Plenum will feed NPS, sponges, clams, corals, macro and fish. One other point about macro and herbivores. Consider reproducing Cerith snails. Even when algae is not visible, they are grazing and there population will match the food source. In the scenario where I turned out lights in refugium, the micro fauna and fana adjust populations to environmental changes. One likely scenario would be that extra inorganic nutrients from elimination of refugium light would be some visible algae growth with a corresponding increase in herbivores. Let the bugs do the work for you. They have been doing it since the geologic dawn of time. Because the dynamic equilibrium involved is not instantaneous in responding, some algae may be visible at times in tank. I have no problem with that and even consider it healthy in little to moderate amounts. Good night Jaubert.
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
|
11/07/2017, 01:20 AM | #19 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Quote:
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
|
11/07/2017, 04:47 AM | #20 |
I'm really very likeable
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down Under
Posts: 676
|
Martin wrote that book 50 years ago <<<< 1st print 1989, that makes it 28 years ago.
In Sprung & Delbeek Volume 3, “denitrification and nitrification can happen in close proximity of each other <<<< yes, that is why live rock is practicle, because it has the ability to do all three, unlike bioballs, or Marine Pure for example. I agree about live rock being a poor de-nitrification method <<<< noted but what does that have to do with this discussion <<<< you have removed your most effective method of inorganic nutrient removal - macro algae fuge, as stated in your OP. I thought my queeries were relevant. Apologies if I have mis-interpreted what you wanted to discuss. Moe's book is certainly still relevant, and to finish, I'll just quote from his book: - "Denitrification bacteria are also present in the deep crevices and pores of the rock, but assuming the tank contains a fair number of animals, the denitrification capacity of the bacteria in the rock will not take the place of active algae growth and a properly designed and functioning denitrification filter device." I'll look forward to your updates on sponge & filter feeder progression & effectiveness. Good luck. |
11/07/2017, 06:28 AM | #21 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 342
|
|
11/07/2017, 08:20 AM | #22 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Quote:
I want this discussion to go where the participants take it. I do not consider live rock a necessary component in the biological filtration of a reef tank. It gives the fish structure to hide and a surface for colonization of micro fauna and fana. I could not operate a reef tank without substrate. Twin, As I further think on your ATS, it dawns on me how much our methods are different. This is the Art that I spoke about in the title of Volume 3 from Sprung and Delbeeck. Your focus is nutrient export. My focus is nutrient recycling. Yes, I export some when I frag and remove coral.
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
|
11/07/2017, 08:34 AM | #23 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Quote:
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
|
11/07/2017, 09:52 AM | #24 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 705
|
Quote:
Calling live rock a weak denitrifier im sure is relative. Can macro algae remove nitrate much faster? Yes, given good conditions and sufficient mass it probably will. But it takes light and a certain amount of care (pruning, flipping if its not properly spinning, etc.) to keep it growing. I can throw several liters of siporax or a few marine pure blocks in my sump and have a really effective de-nitrification process. Evidence of this is abound in the sps forums. |
|
11/07/2017, 10:16 AM | #25 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
|
Quote:
__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
|
|
|