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Unread 06/26/2010, 10:26 PM   #2751
Elliott
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Peter, outstanding tank room, reminds me of a public aquarium installation, only nicer!

btw, I noticed that liveaquaria.com lists almost all their corals and reef fish at 72-78 deg F optimal temperature, I have sent them Ron Shimek's article and asked for their response, I'll post it here, I still don't understand why everyone keeps their tanks at cooler temperatures, I wonder if it's due to our closed systems and the consequential variables at play


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Current Tank Info: tank video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1dI7mdnGU ,900g in wall mixed reef, another 500g sumps, 19 AI Sol LED's, 2 CL's w/VFD's controlled pumps to 24 eductors, 2 Tunze WB's, 2 Barr 5220's and RK2 25PE and BK500, etc
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Unread 06/26/2010, 11:58 PM   #2752
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I posted this temperature issue on another forum and someone posted this reference from Randy Holmes-Farley:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

his comments on temperature are:

"Temperature impacts reef aquarium inhabitants in a variety of ways. First and foremost, the animals' metabolic rates rise as temperature rises. They may consequently use more oxygen, carbon dioxide, nutrients, calcium and alkalinity at higher temperatures. This higher metabolic rate can also increase both their growth rate and waste production at higher temperatures.

Another important impact of temperature is on the chemical aspects of the aquarium. The solubility of dissolved gases such as oxygen and carbon dioxide, for example, changes with temperature. Oxygen, in particular, can be a concern because it is less soluble at higher temperature.

So what does this imply for aquarists?

In most instances, trying to match the natural environment in a reef aquarium is a worthy goal. Temperature may, however, be a parameter that requires accounting for the practical considerations of a small closed system. Looking to the ocean as a guide for setting temperatures in reef aquaria may present complications, because corals grow in such a wide range of temperatures. Nevertheless, Ron Shimek has shown in a previous article that the greatest variety of corals are found in water whose average temperature is about 83-86° F.

Reef aquaria do, however, have limitations that may make their optimal temperature somewhat lower. During normal functioning of a reef aquarium, the oxygen level and the metabolic rate of the aquarium inhabitants are not often important issues. During a crisis such as a power failure, however, the dissolved oxygen can be rapidly used up. Lower temperatures not only allow a higher oxygen level before an emergency, but will also slow the consumption of that oxygen by slowing the metabolism of the aquarium's inhabitants. The production of ammonia as organisms begin to die may also be slower at lower temperatures. For reasons such as this, one may choose to strike a practical balance between temperatures that are too high (even if corals normally thrive in the ocean at those temperatures), and those that are too low. Although average reef temperatures in maximal diversity areas (i.e. coral triangle centered Indonesia,) these areas are also often subject to significant mixing. In fact, the cooler reefs, ( i..e. open Pacific reefs) are often more stable at lower temperatures due to oceanic exchange but are less tolerant to bleaching and other temperature related perturbations.

All things considered, those natural guidelines leave a fairly wide range of acceptable temperatures. I keep my aquarium at about 80-81° F year-round. I am actually more inclined to keep the aquarium cooler in the summer, when a power failure would most likely warm the aquarium, and higher in winter, when a power failure would most likely cool it.

All things considered, I recommend temperatures in the range of 76-83° F unless there is a very clear reason to keep it outside that range."


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TOTM, March 2015

Current Tank Info: tank video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1dI7mdnGU ,900g in wall mixed reef, another 500g sumps, 19 AI Sol LED's, 2 CL's w/VFD's controlled pumps to 24 eductors, 2 Tunze WB's, 2 Barr 5220's and RK2 25PE and BK500, etc
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Unread 06/27/2010, 05:56 AM   #2753
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Sorry, I couldn't resist....been several hours since the last post on this wonderful thread and we just CAN'T have that happen!!!!


LOL!!!!!


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Current Tank Info: Just a mixed reef tank.
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Unread 06/27/2010, 07:06 AM   #2754
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Fantastic mechanical detail!

What a fish room!!!!


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150 gallon Perfecto with 1500 gph GH overflow / DIY stand-wine bar / Dart Return / SRO XP3000 Ext skimmer / 75 g frag / 40 g fuge / 40 g DIY sump / Orphek P156 & Kessil 150A

Current Tank Info: 150 DT/ 40B fuge/ 75g frag/ 40 g sump/ SRO XP 3000 Ext/ TUNZEs & VorTechs circulation/Dart return/ MTC Pro Cal/ UV & Oz
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Unread 06/27/2010, 09:17 AM   #2755
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The View

This is the view out from the picture window in the fish room.........











this is the electrical switch panel at night with no devices drawing any current.




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Unread 06/27/2010, 09:31 AM   #2756
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Various Controllers

This arrangement works so that the thermostat for cooling works from the remote. That means I can move the remote around the fish room to an ideal location if there is a hot spot. The humidity sensor for the HRV is located reasonably close to the air flow from the tank canopy into the fish room.








controller for the second chiller..........closed loop system B






controller for 'Robbie the Robot' (skimmer) followed by the control for Robbies bubbles...........










temp probe and controller for the first chiller, closed loop system A in the bottom middle of the frame.........the probe sits in the refugium which is the last stop before re-entry into the Display tank.






Last edited by nineball; 06/27/2010 at 09:42 AM.
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Unread 06/27/2010, 09:54 AM   #2757
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EYE Candy

This is the tank at night.........without water of course





This is the tank in the morning........I call it "fish tank in a spring morning"






This fish motif is in all the wrought iron work.......its sort of like a fish jumping out of the reeds..........but my fish will be well behaved and stay in the tank where they will be happy!!!!!!







Wine Closet










Peter


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Unread 06/27/2010, 09:59 AM   #2758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nineball View Post
This is the tank at night.........without water of course





This is the tank in the morning........I call it "fish tank in a spring morning"






This fish motif is in all the wrought iron work.......its sort of like a fish jumping out of the reeds..........but my fish will be well behaved and stay in the tank where they will be happy!!!!!!







Wine Closet










Peter
The pictures were well worth the wait, stunning to say the least Peter!!


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Unread 06/27/2010, 10:07 AM   #2759
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And now some homework for the experts........

I have a question........My second chiller came with a slightly different pump with a small barrel canister filter /that the first one didn't have. I just realized that the tall canister filter sits after the pump but before the UV and the chiller. My question is................why isn't there a filter canister in front of the pump to protect it from the likely event of sand and gravel coming from the display tank.












This first closed loop (system A) does NOT have a prefilter canister in front of the pump.






I hope that made sense.

Comments????


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Unread 06/27/2010, 10:10 AM   #2760
Elliott
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I don't run any filters before pumps or chiller and have never had a problem


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Rodney Dangerfield - "I worked in a pet store and people would ask how big I would get."

TOTM, March 2015

Current Tank Info: tank video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1dI7mdnGU ,900g in wall mixed reef, another 500g sumps, 19 AI Sol LED's, 2 CL's w/VFD's controlled pumps to 24 eductors, 2 Tunze WB's, 2 Barr 5220's and RK2 25PE and BK500, etc
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Unread 06/27/2010, 10:39 AM   #2761
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That is what I refer to as a leaf basket, they really don't trap much. (seeing as i'm always cleaning sand out of the impeller of our pool pumps at work)

I did however have one question Peter. WHERE is the wine? You cant taste wine if there is none. (this is one of my favorites)

http://www.jimbarry.com/wines/detail...PrdctsTheMcRae


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Unread 06/27/2010, 11:09 AM   #2762
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The Leaf-Basket as N-dog stated, can be used to trap large particles before they get to harm the impeller,(leafs, snails, etc.)

It also (mainly) is used to Prime the pump in a suction feed setup.... suction draw, where the pump is higher then the water level, you place a check valve on the suction pipe, (usually below the level of the pump) fill up the Leaf-basket with water, screw on the cover, and start the pump, primed!





Christina


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Unread 06/27/2010, 11:56 AM   #2763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPSGurl View Post
The Leaf-Basket as N-dog stated, can be used to trap large particles before they get to harm the impeller,(leafs, snails, etc.)

It also (mainly) is used to Prime the pump in a suction feed setup.... suction draw, where the pump is higher then the water level, you place a check valve on the suction pipe, (usually below the level of the pump) fill up the Leaf-basket with water, screw on the cover, and start the pump, primed!





Christina
Far out, thank you very much Christina. Finally some common sense. That makes the instruction on the top to fill before turning on the pump entirely clear now.

Peter


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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:00 PM   #2764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N-dog View Post
That is what I refer to as a leaf basket, they really don't trap much. (seeing as i'm always cleaning sand out of the impeller of our pool pumps at work)

I did however have one question Peter. WHERE is the wine? You cant taste wine if there is none. (this is one of my favorites)

http://www.jimbarry.com/wines/detail...PrdctsTheMcRae
I think we can both agree that you have good taste in wine........... I have been waiting for one small final step to be taken in the door seals before moving any wine into the closet.

Peter


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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:02 PM   #2765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott View Post
I don't run any filters before pumps or chiller and have never had a problem
Hopefully Elliott, my experience parallels yours!!Thanks for the super quick response.

Peter


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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:04 PM   #2766
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Originally Posted by createyourown View Post
The pictures were well worth the wait, stunning to say the least Peter!!

Thanks for your patience createyourown. Glad you enjoyed them. Hopefully there will be more to come.

Peter


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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:06 PM   #2767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bax View Post
Fantastic mechanical detail!

What a fish room!!!!
Thank you Bax. Glad to see you are still hanging around.

Peter


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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:08 PM   #2768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msr224 View Post
Sorry, I couldn't resist....been several hours since the last post on this wonderful thread and we just CAN'T have that happen!!!!


LOL!!!!!
Thanks msr. Now I get a brief respite before the next phase.............

WATER TEST ! ! !

Peter


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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:26 PM   #2769
nineball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott View Post
Peter, outstanding tank room, reminds me of a public aquarium installation, only nicer!

btw, I noticed that liveaquaria.com lists almost all their corals and reef fish at 72-78 deg F optimal temperature, I have sent them Ron Shimek's article and asked for their response, I'll post it here, I still don't understand why everyone keeps their tanks at cooler temperatures, I wonder if it's due to our closed systems and the consequential variables at play
Thank you Elliott, good observation. I can agree this issue is a difficult one to nail down due to the variables. I just think that a newbie coming to the hobby as a novice should be able to rely on some sound advice that at a bare minimum should leave him or her in the safe zone with a subject as basic as temperature.

I like the logic in the paper you referred in your other post. The range appears to take into account a number of considerations raised by Mr. Wilson et al with the risks associated with the extremes. Given the feedback we have had here so far I wonder if there is a material difference when considering the size of tanks. Lets say that tanks over 1000 gal may have a support environment different than say tanks under 300 gal that would affect the ideal target range. It would appear that users who have very large tanks also prefer the lower range and I would bet that other elements such as oxygen and even ozone which would likely be a prevailing affect with the technology found more in use with larger environments.

I would like to believe that the talent sitting on this thread could or at least should be able to arrive at a consensus that would be helpful to anyone using Mr. Wilson's book as a guide to support.

Somehow I believe Mr. Wilson will have additional comments that will help us in this regard.

Peter

so far I believe that the discussion on this thread on this subject would have me establish a target of 78-80 F for our tank..........I think.


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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:31 PM   #2770
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Absolutely amazing!!! That's all I can say.......

Peter - thank you for sharing this amazing project with us...

Rodd


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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:40 PM   #2771
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It would be easier to Google "water temperature Great Barrier Reef" but you will find that the water temperature varies considerably from the southern tip around Lady Elliot Island to the northern end in the vacinity of Darwin and further west to Broome.

"temperatures from 18 - 33 °C" Source: http://www.barrierreefaustralia.com/...coralfacts.htm

We even have coral ... sps ... growing as far south as Brisbane.

Tone
Tone, good to know you are still out there.........not that I was getting worried. As you slip towards winter we are experiencing (in my neck of the woods) one of the best spring and summer (seven days old) on record. At least folks in your neck of the woods have the good sense not to hibernate and continue to enjoy the great outdoors through the winter. My winter sport is billiards.......oh yeah and testing shiraz for public consumption.

I realize that the coral landscape around Australia provides for a huge varience in temperature ranges, often times in the same location!!!! However as you know there are certain places where the coral varieties and speices are as good as it gets. So one question you might answer for us is what is the temperature range in your all time favourite diving location where the corals in the wild are at their best?

Peter


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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:40 PM   #2772
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Absolutely amazing!!! That's all I can say.......

Peter - thank you for sharing this amazing project with us...

Rodd
Rodd, thank you for hanging in with us.

Peter


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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:45 PM   #2773
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Originally Posted by offroadodge View Post
so i know i havnt posted any in the thread, took almost all day to read. This is a thing of beauty. If it looks this good now, when the display is set-up and running its gonna be magnificant. Great job and continued luck. Tagging along
I very much hope that with the continuing support of this group that the managed result is a testament as to just how powerful the Reef Central community can be when they want to be.

Thank you offroadodge and welcome to the light.

Peter


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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:46 PM   #2774
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I have started a POLL regarding tank temperature here:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1869243


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Rodney Dangerfield - "I worked in a pet store and people would ask how big I would get."

TOTM, March 2015

Current Tank Info: tank video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1dI7mdnGU ,900g in wall mixed reef, another 500g sumps, 19 AI Sol LED's, 2 CL's w/VFD's controlled pumps to 24 eductors, 2 Tunze WB's, 2 Barr 5220's and RK2 25PE and BK500, etc
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Unread 06/27/2010, 12:49 PM   #2775
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Originally Posted by Rybren View Post
Looking good, Peter. I admit it. The pics were worth the wait.
Thanks Rybren, I appreciate your ongoing support. I still have some tweaking and glueing to do but we are almost ready to jump in to the deep end, as it were.

Peter


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