LEDs, not so great for SPS?

[malate]

So I've had my Kessil A360WE for a year now and really haven't experienced the growth I had with a 150W MH bulb. Currently running the Kessil on a controller and have it at 85% intensity for 2 hours a day.

Just need some affirmation if this what's are experiencing. I feel like getting back into MH with my set up.

Thoughts?

[malate]

The light is about 10 inches above the water line too.

[ca1ore]

My first thought is have you checked the countless threads on this topic? My second is for you to provide more information about your tank. Lot of reasons for poor growth that may have nothing to do with the lights.

[Freds]

I can't speak for SPS but I gave up my Kessils and went back to T5. I saw better growth with T5, almost immediately. I loved the shimmer and considered going back to Halides but I've personally always had the best results with T5. While I do miss the shimmer, the overall coloration and growth from T5, for me, can't be beat.

[malate]

Originally Posted by Freds

I can't speak for SPS but I gave up my Kessils and went back to T5. I saw better growth with T5, almost immediately. I loved the shimmer and considered going back to Halides but I've personally always had the best results with T5. While I do miss the shimmer, the overall coloration and growth from T5, for me, can't be beat.

Yeah I was thinking t5 as well but not sure if there's a fixture out there that will support my 24x24x20 cube. Heard I'd need 6 lights for it to be effective.

[malate]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

My first thought is have you checked the countless threads on this topic? My second is for you to provide more information about your tank. Lot of reasons for poor growth that may have nothing to do with the lights.

I've read several but guess I just needed to validate the inevitable. Water parameters are good. My LPS are doing very well.

Alk 7.3
Ca 480
Mag 1480
Nitrate 0
Phos 0

Tank has been running for 8 months. Thought about giving LEDs another 6 months but I'm getting antsy.

[minus9]

How long is your photo period? 2hrs @ 85% doesn't seem very long to me? What's the intensity for the remaining part of day? I have a 22g full of sps and I'm using two Kessil 160's and I'm only hitting 80% at mid day on a 12hr cycle. I added T5's to fill in the shaded areas (mainly, because I didn't want to get another 160 due to an upgrade soon and a 2 bulb retrofit was cheaper).
LED's are different than other lighting, T5's, MH, etc.... It takes corals a lot longer to adjust to them, but they do work, very well in fact.
I'm with ca1ore, give us some more info on your tank, water parameters, maintenance, etc... and we'll help out.

[malate]

Originally Posted by minus9

How long is your photo period? 2hrs @ 85% doesn't seem very long to me? What's the intensity for the remaining part of day? I have a 22g full of sps and I'm using two Kessil 160's and I'm only hitting 80% at mid day on a 12hr cycle. I added T5's to fill in the shaded areas (mainly, because I didn't want to get another 160 due to an upgrade soon and a 2 bulb retrofit was cheaper).
LED's are different than other lighting, T5's, MH, etc.... It takes corals a lot longer to adjust to them, but they do work, very well in fact.
I'm with ca1ore, give us some more info on your tank, water parameters, maintenance, etc... and we'll help out.

Thanks

My lighting schedule is as follows using a Kessil Controller. Lower % on color is a bluer color if your familiar w the controller.

Color Intensity
10:30 on. 85% 50%
12:45 75% 70%
15:00 70% 85%
17:00 65% 80%
20:00 45% 60%
22:00 lights off

Fish
2 clowns
1 leopard wrasse
1 tailspot blenny

[Bronx19]

I'm also going all T5, but my SPS seem to enjoy the LED and the softies dont.

I cant wait to see the difference.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by malate

I've read several but guess I just needed to validate the inevitable.

Thing is, it's not inevitable. I use the same kessils (augmented with a photon LED), have done for the past two years, and have had excellent SPS growth. My tank is now a significant frag producer rather than a frag consumer. It is, however, difficult to pinpoint why some folks are successful with LED and others are not.

[minus9]

8 months is still a fairly new tank, especially when sps are involved. I would give it some time. I am familiar with the controller (it's what I use instead of my apex).
Here's how I run mine.

Time - color - intensity
8:00 - 0% - 0%
11:00 - 25% - 65%
14:00 - 25% - 80%
17:00 - 25% - 65%
20:00 - 0% - 0%

[vhuang168]

Top down of my 40b. At about the 1 year mark. Kessil AP700.

All started out as frags, most in the 1" size, some bigger.

Your lights are not the reason you have slow growth. 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates are not good for sps growth and color.

I believe if you run high light, you need more nutrients in the water.

I feed heavy and have 8 fish in the tank. I had to back off on my fuge light schedule , stop my skimmer for periods and not run socks to get my nitrates and phosphates over 0.


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[malate]

Originally Posted by minus9

8 months is still a fairly new tank, especially when sps are involved. I would give it some time. I am familiar with the controller (it's what I use instead of my apex).
Here's how I run mine.

Time - color - intensity
8:00 - 0% - 0%
11:00 - 25% - 65%
14:00 - 25% - 80%
17:00 - 25% - 65%
20:00 - 0% - 0%

Appreciate the advice and lighting schedule.

You're right. I've been in the hobby for a while and patience is everything. I'll continue to hold off and give it some time.

[malate]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

I believe if you run high light, you need more nutrients in the water.

I feed heavy and have 8 fish in the tank. I had to back off on my fuge light schedule , stop my skimmer for periods and not run socks to get my nitrates and phosphates over 0.


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Thanks for feedback

You know I've been thinking my water may be a bit too "clean." Before this tank (50 gal cube) I ran my 29 gal BC with a nano skimmer - wasn't that great of skimmer - but I feel like there were the right amount of nutrients in the water. Consequently I had great growth with everything in the tank.

I have been thinking of getting a new fish too so there can be more bioload in the tank. Wondering what I should get..... I may try what you've done too and stop my skimmer time to time.

This is what I love about the hobby, testing and tuning, and being able to communicate with fellow reefers.

[Stickboy97]

Check out this months tank of the month winner... LED lights.

So there are lots of different reasons for growth or not.

[jubjub47]

It's pretty simple why you are not having the success with the old style kessils. They aren't a full spectrum led and as soon as you add spectrum back in with the t5 lights the corals grow again. The poster above is having great success with his new full spectrum kessil and I know that in our shop once we moved all reefs over to full spectrum led we quit experiencing any problems. We don't have any tanks in our entire store lit with anything but leds anymore and couldn't be happier.

[vhuang168]

Originally Posted by jubjub47

It's pretty simple why you are not having the success with the old style kessils. They aren't a full spectrum led and as soon as you add spectrum back in with the t5 lights the corals grow again. The poster above is having great success with his new full spectrum kessil and I know that in our shop once we moved all reefs over to full spectrum led we quit experiencing any problems. We don't have any tanks in our entire store lit with anything but leds anymore and couldn't be happier.

I don't use the Red or green channels. So the light spectrum is the same as the 'old' Kessils.

Tons of successful sps tanks using 'old' Kessil lights.


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[rtparty]

Originally Posted by malate

Yeah I was thinking t5 as well but not sure if there's a fixture out there that will support my 24x24x20 cube. Heard I'd need 6 lights for it to be effective.

Just for future reference, you will want at least a 6x24w ATI Sunpower for your tank if you go to T5s.

[Wazzel]

LEDs work just fine for SPS. I am just shy of three years running LED only and have no complaints.

[malate]

Originally Posted by Wazzel

LEDs work just fine for SPS. I am just shy of three years running LED only and have no complaints.

That's conforting to hear. I'll just be patient and slowly build my sps stock, test & tune skimmer usage, and reasses when my tank is 18 months old.

[ktownhero]

Originally Posted by jubjub47

It's pretty simple why you are not having the success with the old style kessils. They aren't a full spectrum led and as soon as you add spectrum back in with the t5 lights the corals grow again. The poster above is having great success with his new full spectrum kessil and I know that in our shop once we moved all reefs over to full spectrum led we quit experiencing any problems. We don't have any tanks in our entire store lit with anything but leds anymore and couldn't be happier.

I don't know who told you that the individual Kessils are not fill spectrum, but they were wrong. All of the Kessils are full spectrum and not only that but they maintain full spectrum regardless of what settings you use visually. That's why they are so great.

The big difference with the AP700 is that it's spread and penetration is much better due to the reflectors.

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[Wazzel]

Originally Posted by malate

That's conforting to hear. I'll just be patient and slowly build my sps stock, test & tune skimmer usage, and reasses when my tank is 18 months old.

This is my first two year progression shots. Last year around the olympics I upgraded to a 120.

Originally Posted by Wazzel

Two year progress
May-14

May-15

May-16

[dohc97]

I'm having very good growth with a 360 over an IM 25, problem I'm having is spread. Top down my sps look great but the shaded areas are going brown. My setup is only about 5 months old at this point with sps in it the last 2.5 months. I am adding 2 t5s and making an sps/t5 hybrid. Will give that a shot before giving up on led.

[ca1ore]

Any point source light will have shading problems. MH got around this problem by using large reflectors. Kessil got around it with the AP700 in the same way. It is an issue with the Kessil pendants. Only way around it is to either add more pendants or a 'line source' light like T5 or reefbreeders LED.

[minus9]

Here's a semi recent pic of my tank. Two 160's and two blue+ T5 (not sure if they're on in this shot?).

This is after a recent fragging of the monti, valida and horrida.