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Old 08/05/2018, 01:48 PM   #1
lapin
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Fuge - under gravel flow plenum

I have an idea for my new fuge (20 gallon tall). Im thinking of piping the water that enters the fuge under the sub straight. Underwater spray bar. This should force the debris from the macro, out from under the sub straight rather than settling underneath and creating the zone of crud. Not that there is anything wrong with the zone of crud as a low oxygen de nitrate zone, but I dont see the need at this time. The water will then flow over a partition and exit the fuge. I need some input on why this will work or why not and any ideas. I read some stuff about plenums. There is tons. I did use undergravel filters when I had fresh water tanks. That forced air underneath and sucked water out.
I'm old and don't have that much time to get educated to the fullest on using one with a salt water tank. I plan on having macro, pods and other things growing in it. If I do it this way would a base (undergravel filter) egg create on pvc, rock rubble then some calcium media on top work?
For the future I was planing on building an ATS that will sit on top of the fuge as an way to convert waste to food.
Im sure I forgot something but company has arrived so i must put on "the host with the most" hat.
I have also posted this on R-2_R
Cheers


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Old 08/06/2018, 06:11 PM   #2
Michael Hoaster
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Why? What need are you addressing? What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want pristine, sterile sand in your refugium? What will the pods eat then? Most people let the refugium collect crud, so their display does not. Where does this dirty water go, once it exits the fuge?

If you could flesh out your need and solution, we could better understand and offer advice.


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Old 08/06/2018, 08:15 PM   #3
lapin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
Why? What need are you addressing? What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want pristine, sterile sand in your refugium? What will the pods eat then? Most people let the refugium collect crud, so their display does not. Where does this dirty water go, once it exits the fuge?

If you could flesh out your need and solution, we could better understand and offer advice.
Why? Well my thinking was that if the dead stuff (dead pods and dead macro)was circulated between the bottom and the layer of macro floating on the surface it would break down faster thus providing nutrients that were in smaller particles. I was trying to make the fuge more efficient since it is only 20 gallons. It will not be pristine. I was planing to have an undergravel filter as a base. A layer of rock rubble and then a layer of reborn cal media on top of that. No sand. I know the way most people run them is; mud, sand and maybe some rock on that. The water entering the fuge will have already gone thru filter socks so large particles will be removed. Water that exits will have what ever stuff is living or dead in the fuge water. This will be very slow flow so I dont expect much dead material to go back into the tank. Hoping for mostly free swimming creatures.
This maybe totally flawed thinking? i duno


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Old 08/06/2018, 11:39 PM   #4
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OK, so you're trying to make a small refugium more efficient. And you're hoping to generate plankton. I don't know that the extra complication of turning your substrate into a filter will give you any benefit, but what do I know, give it a try. It's the only way to know, right?

I ran a plenum setup once upon a time. The consensus these days is that deep sand beds with no plenum are even better. Especially if you're providing a home to critters like pods.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Old 08/08/2018, 10:31 PM   #5
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I am definitely interested in seeing this work. I could sell pod condominiums by bagging up some of that reef rubble.

Michael,
Aside from your marine plants, why would a DSB be desirable. I emulate success. PaulB just moved his 47 year old reef tank which used a Plenum & reverse flow up undergravel set up. I emulated Paul.


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Old 08/09/2018, 12:31 AM   #6
Michael Hoaster
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Would there be any pods in a reverse flow, rubble filter? It seems like it would be a barren environment. But I could be wrong. Try it.

Patrick, I find deep sand beds desirable, as a more natural HOME for a diverse multitude of life forms. A thicker substrate is a bigger home, with a wider array of conditions present to support diversity. I want to learn from Nature. So I want to utilize the most natural methods wherever possible. A DSB fits that. I don't see a need for mechanizing my substrate into a filter. It's increased aerobic bacteria competes with plants for nutrients. Makes more sense to decrease it, in planted tanks. I can see it working in a reef tank.

PaulB sounds like a good guy to emulate. One of the things about the hobby that blows my mind is there are so many different methods being used! I think you can achieve success with pretty much any of them. I guess it makes sense to choose a method that jives with your personality. Do you like reverse flow under gravel filters? Great. I like deep sand beds.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Lagoon in the works
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Old 08/09/2018, 05:31 AM   #7
Subsea
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For certain, Nature is a great teacher.


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Old 08/09/2018, 08:06 AM   #8
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The chemistry of dsb is much more complex, considering facultative bacteria performing denitrification and anarobic sulfide bacteria performing as anarobic digesters. For the roots of your seaplants, that is a thriving ecosystem.


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Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
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Old 08/15/2018, 07:09 PM   #9
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Its done and waiting for the macro delivery tomorrow. Getting about 600 - 800 gph flow. Will have to see once the macro in, how much is moving thru the foliage. Had to up my return pump a nudge to account for the increased flow thru the manifold. I'm hoping the light will grow some film pretty quickly so I can get some pods. I have a good build up on my tank walls. Cleaning 2 x a week.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg FugeBare.jpg (101.4 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Fuge_1.jpg (102.3 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Fuge_2.jpg (36.1 KB, 10 views)
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Old 08/16/2018, 06:32 PM   #10
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Macro has arrived. I used 2 media cups for the "Twin Pod Towers". While one is being populated in the fuge, the other will be in the tank for the fishes day time snackies. I will rotate them out.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Macro4.jpg (100.3 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Twin_pod_towers11.jpg (53.6 KB, 9 views)
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Old 09/21/2018, 05:31 PM   #11
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How's the fuge going? I was just thinking you'll likely prove me wrong. I've noticed lots of pods in my canister filter, and I immediately thought of you.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Lagoon in the works
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Old 09/23/2018, 05:18 AM   #12
Subsea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
How's the fuge going? I was just thinking you'll likely prove me wrong. I've noticed lots of pods in my canister filter, and I immediately thought of you.

I have been pondering on a pod collection system for several grow out tanks. You just nailed it for me. In one of my canister filters, I have cryptic sponges, so much for Steve Tyree contention that low flow is required.


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Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
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Old 09/23/2018, 04:20 PM   #13
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The red macro's have been moved to the DT. The fuge is now covered with a 1" thick layer of ulva with some hair mixed in. Plus a lot of green slime and other stuff growing in there including pods. Here you can see fish picking at one of the plant beds. Eating pods or the algae or pods worms or something.


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File Type: jpg FullFuge1A.jpg (100.1 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg Macro1A.jpg (66.5 KB, 5 views)
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