Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Invert and Plant Forums > Marine Plants & Macroalgae
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 02/12/2021, 12:24 PM   #1826
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
I've been reading more on the Blue Tang's diet. It's quite the mixed bag, actually. The consensus is that they are plankatores that also eat some algae. I watched a video where a blue and a yellow tang were eating Botriocladia (red grapes) in a clip with gusto. Bottom line, if I don't want to risk my macros, I shouldn't get one. It's possible it wouldn't eat them, but it's possible it would. I really want one, but I better not.

I emailed KP Aquatics about a gramma harem and they said they would have them on Monday, so I should order them then. So I'll likely do that.

On the plant front, the Ulva Intestinalis is still losing ground unfortunately. I found a few more snails on them yesterday. I have no idea how they got there. I'm starting to realize I just can't keep this plant in my tank. I'll keep trying to keep these going, but it's not looking good. It's weird because I kept 'regular ulva' in the early stages of this tank just fine. The difference may be the snails' population, which was no doubt smaller then. With enough plants and plant biomass, I'm sure I could sustain them, but I doubt I can get there. I may be able to blame the Caulerpa, which has a huge biomass, and it slurps up nutrients like a dry sponge. So the Ulva doesn't grow fast enough to outpace predation.

I've been watching the Galaxaura's progress with interest. With all of them in brighter light, their color was lightening. This made me wonder if the info I got was wrong, and they prefer LESS light. On closer inspection with a magnifying glass, I found that the lightened tips were actually new growth. So their coloring may be shifting from a wine color more towards pink. That's fine with me, if they're growing. The last time I kept this plant, I planted it in dimmer lighting and it faded away. So it's nice to see an indication of growth, this time around.

QT6


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/12/2021, 02:12 PM   #1827
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,409
It sounds like given the info you are getting on Hippo tang that you are wise not to risk one.

I am really excited about the gramma harem! I liked how in v1 that they hung out in the holes you designed in your fake wall. I am hoping that this group does the same thing.

Sorry about the ulva. Snails! Can't live with them and can't live without them!

That is cool that the galaxaura's has new growth. That is always an exciting find!


__________________
Genesis 1:20 -

Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon naural nutrient macro reef that flows into a 30 gallon fuge with macros/seagrass that flows into a 20 gallon sump.
vlangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/12/2021, 03:23 PM   #1828
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
Too risky, me thinks! Ten-years-ago-me would've gotten one. Not this old guy!

I'm super excited about getting a Gramma Harem again too! I did find a good deal on captive raised Fridmani Basslets, but I think they'd be a risk of being too mean. Plus I wouldn't be able to get as many, and would still cost more than the grammas. The fake wall was designed just for the grammas! They prefer vertical surfaces to orient to. The ones in v1 took to it from day one. I'll just need to clear a lot of the Caulerpa off, so they can find all the holes. Then it'll grow back and they'll incorporate it into their nests.

The Dove Snails are just one symptom of the limitations I put one this tank, in order to prioritize the overall ecosystem. I'm definitely sacrificing which fish I can keep, and also which plants. It's worth it to me, but I imagine I'm in the minority.

I'm definitely stoked on the Galaxaura!


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/12/2021, 03:40 PM   #1829
ThePurple12
Registered Member
 
ThePurple12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Virginia
Posts: 506
All right, bringin home the fish! How many grammas?


ThePurple12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/12/2021, 04:03 PM   #1830
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
I'm thinking six. With four large, established Allen's Damsels, and what I'm guessing will be small grammas, I don't want to get too greedy and end up with a turf war. When I had seven in v1, I always thought I could get away with another one or two, but they were only sharing the tank with the Atlantic Blue Tang and the all-but-invisible Barnacle Blennies.


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/12/2021, 05:42 PM   #1831
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,409
Do the damsels have specific territories or do they just peruse the whole tank. If they hang more around the patch reef rocks then maybe the grammar can have the fake wall and everyone will be happy! That is in a perfect world, of course. Hopefully the tomini will help diffuse aggression between the damsels and grammas too.

Six seems like enough to make an impact. That should be very cool and add both activity and color.


__________________
Genesis 1:20 -

Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon naural nutrient macro reef that flows into a 30 gallon fuge with macros/seagrass that flows into a 20 gallon sump.
vlangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/12/2021, 09:50 PM   #1832
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
A couple of the damsels have taken up in back wall holes, but there's plenty to go around. I wouldn't be surprised if Scarlett stepped in to play referee. Mr Zippy did that with the grammas before. But you do bring up a very good point about getting the grammas in with the damsels. I may need to strategize…


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/13/2021, 07:05 AM   #1833
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,409
If you could catch at least some of the damsels and QT them at the same time the grammas are going through QT, then you could introduce the grammas to the tank a half a week or so before re-introducing the damsels. That, along with the fact that you are getting 6 grammas should give the new ones the edge they need to settle in and not get overly bullied. Anyway it's a thought.


__________________
Genesis 1:20 -

Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon naural nutrient macro reef that flows into a 30 gallon fuge with macros/seagrass that flows into a 20 gallon sump.
vlangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/13/2021, 07:14 AM   #1834
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
Not a bad idea! IF I can catch the damsels, that would probably work well. I may have to break out the old 2 liter soda bottle trap! Another possibility would be to float the new grammas in acclimation boxes. I like your idea better. Maybe those are plan A & B. I'm sure there are other possibilities too. I've got time to think it over. Thanks Dawn!


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/13/2021, 11:07 AM   #1835
ThePurple12
Registered Member
 
ThePurple12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Virginia
Posts: 506
Seems like grammas, newly introduced or not, would be able to hold their own against anything! I don't have experience with them though.


ThePurple12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/13/2021, 12:16 PM   #1836
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
Generally, that's true! But in this situation, my new grammas will likely be very small at introduction. Probably in the inch and a half range. My Damsels, which have had the run of the tank for over a year, are now three inches plus. And they're not near as sweet and cuddly as they were as juveniles. So the dynamic could very well be challenging.

I could ask for larger grammas, but then you run the risk of not starting with all females, which is what you want for starting a harem. Grammas, and a lot of other fish, start life as females. So getting all small ones pretty much guarantees all females. It's not likely I'll get six grammas of identical size, but I'll ask for them to be as close in size as possible, which is fine, as long as they're all small, and thus female. If one is larger and turns male first, that's okay too.

So that really points to Dawn's idea of getting the damsels out of the tank for awhile, so the grammas can get established unharassed. Thinking more about the execution of Plan A, I could give myself a week or so to catch them all and get them into my unoccupied 26 gallon QT. Once I get the grammas and tang in the display, I'll have room to spread the damsels out into other QTs, if needed.

That was probably a more wordy response than you wanted, but it was helpful to me to talk it out. So thanks, ThePurple12! Discussion leads to breakthroughs!


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/13/2021, 03:37 PM   #1837
ThePurple12
Registered Member
 
ThePurple12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Virginia
Posts: 506
Sounds like a good plan, are you getting them from KP Aquatics?


ThePurple12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/13/2021, 03:46 PM   #1838
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
Yes, I contacted them and they said they would get a bunch in on Monday, so I plan to order then.

QT7


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

Last edited by Michael Hoaster; 02/13/2021 at 05:39 PM.
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/13/2021, 04:27 PM   #1839
ThePurple12
Registered Member
 
ThePurple12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Virginia
Posts: 506
now I see you said that right at the top of the page!


ThePurple12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/14/2021, 02:57 PM   #1840
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,409
I have used the pop bottle trap a number of times with pretty good success. I actually use a small 20 oz bottle but I have had smaller fish.
Your tank is too big to use my other method. I fill brute cans with the water in my display lowering the water level to about 2 or 3". It limits the targeted fish's ability to hide making them much easier to catch without tearing the rockwork apart. Unfortunately this method is much easier to do with a 56 gallon than a 180 gallon. You would need 6 brute cans( at least) lined up, LOL.
I will keep my fingers crossed for you with catching the damsels!

Good luck tomorrow with the order to KPAquatics for the grammas. Maybe they will send you 7? I found them to be generous and an extra might be nice. I like getting fish in odd numbers.


__________________
Genesis 1:20 -

Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon naural nutrient macro reef that flows into a 30 gallon fuge with macros/seagrass that flows into a 20 gallon sump.
vlangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/14/2021, 03:14 PM   #1841
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
Yeah, I've had good luck with my trap as well, so I keep it around. I actually have pretty high hopes with these damsels. They're very aggressive eaters and their shape is conducive to going into the trap, and hopefully they're not smart enough to get out - quickly at least. Lowering the water level is a good method as well, if practical. As you said, the size of my tank makes it less so, and an extra complication is the hidey-holes in the back wall.

I have emailed KP's with my concerns on the weather. Hopefully they'll have a solution that'll work. My weather looks better for a Thursday overnight ship than a Monday or Tuesday ship, which is their normal schedule.

On my original harem in v1, I ordered six, and they sent seven. So I wouldn't be surprised if they did that again. But I'll be quite happy with six, with the four Damsels. We'll see. I may add another thing or two to my order, like maybe a Flower anemone, or a sponge. I'll see what's available when I order.

QT8


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

Last edited by Michael Hoaster; 02/14/2021 at 08:36 PM.
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/15/2021, 09:08 PM   #1842
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
I didn't order grammas today. KP's didn't appear to get them in, and they posted a message banner on their site saying that shipping looks iffy this week, so I'll check back later.

Scarlett really colored up today. She's a looker! Still pretty timid, but she's gradually coming around. I did another water change for her yesterday. She looks to be handling my putzing around in her tank without too much stress. I still haven't made it to town to get ammonia neutralizer. Maybe tomorrow. Quarantine seems to be flying by quickly. Yay!

It's hard to say for sure, but since getting CO2 going again, the plants seem to be growing faster. The macros on the patch reef look fuller, more robust, and the grasses are showing signs of bouncing back from the flat-top hair cut I gave them.

QT9


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/16/2021, 06:59 AM   #1843
ThePurple12
Registered Member
 
ThePurple12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Virginia
Posts: 506
Too bad about KP. When is Scarlett going in the DT?

That was an odd rhyme.


ThePurple12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/16/2021, 08:35 AM   #1844
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
I'll introduce Scarlett at about week 3. I need to get her fattened up and accustomed to the different foods I offer her. Also I'll need to coordinate her intro with the grammas, so it's not a specific day, at this point.


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/16/2021, 12:05 PM   #1845
Chasmodes
Registered Member
 
Chasmodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,322
Hi Michael. I'm still on page 58, a lot of catching up to do. Sorry about not being around. Work and fishing has been dominating my free time (yes, I'm obsessed, and it's icefishing season now, LOL). I need to catch up before I can comment on your tank. I'm sure it will be a good read!


__________________
Blennies Rock!

--Kevin Wilson

Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
Chasmodes is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/16/2021, 12:11 PM   #1846
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
Hey Kevin! No need to be sorry. It sounds like you're having fun. We all take breaks from forums. Good to hear from you!


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/16/2021, 01:30 PM   #1847
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
I'll introduce Scarlett at about week 3. I need to get her fattened up and accustomed to the different foods I offer her. Also I'll need to coordinate her intro with the grammas, so it's not a specific day, at this point.
Michael, I love the patient methodical way you do everything with your tank. Most of us could certainly learn from you!

What all do you feed Scarlett? Tommy eats a vegetable based flake every day. I also feed some sort of frozen cube everyday, be it emerald entree, spiralina brine shrimp, and formula 2. I do mix the green frozen food up with some frozen mysis, brine shrimp, prime reef and formula 1 too. The one food Tommy does not show much interest in is Spectrum pellets or the green pellet food I bought for my blennies. He much prefers flake food to pellet.


__________________
Genesis 1:20 -

Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon naural nutrient macro reef that flows into a 30 gallon fuge with macros/seagrass that flows into a 20 gallon sump.
vlangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/16/2021, 01:34 PM   #1848
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasmodes View Post
Hi Michael. I'm still on page 58, a lot of catching up to do. Sorry about not being around. Work and fishing has been dominating my free time (yes, I'm obsessed, and it's icefishing season now, LOL). I need to catch up before I can comment on your tank. I'm sure it will be a good read!
Hi Kevin, it is nice to see you! I am glad that you are enjoying fishing. I am sure that I would enjoy regular fishing but I am going to leave the ice fishing to you.


__________________
Genesis 1:20 -

Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon naural nutrient macro reef that flows into a 30 gallon fuge with macros/seagrass that flows into a 20 gallon sump.
vlangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/16/2021, 05:15 PM   #1849
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
Thank you Dawn. I've learned the hard way. I killed so many fish in 2019, I almost left the hobby. I lost more fish than I let on. The heartbreak and shame of killing creatures I care deeply for was almost unbearable. I get choked up just thinking about it. I had to change my ways or quit. Not all were my fault, but most of them were.

For Scarlett, I bought two different algae-based flakes, and I had some algae pellet food on hand. I'm not absolutely certain she eats the flakes. I add flakes to the tank, and by the time she comes out of hiding, the flakes have mostly disappeared. Judging by how many pellets I found when changing tank water, I don't think she is eating them. She does eat frozen mysis and cyclops. I suspect that's all they fed her at the LFS. Today I tried one of those sinking veggie discs. I had originally bought them for Farlowella catfish in my freshwater setup years ago. Since they lay flat on the bottom, I thought it would work well with her kissing feeding action. It did! So now I have at least one veggie food that I know she is eating. With the light having been on for a week or so, I'm hoping she's getting some film algae with her kissing feeding. Maybe I'll try one of those frozen veggie foods you mentioned. Thanks for telling me what you're feeding. I really want to find a food that I see her gorging on, so I can fatten her up!


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/16/2021, 08:51 PM   #1850
Michael Hoaster
Registered Seaweedist
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,807
A quick post, if that's possible for me.

So, I can confirm that Scarlett, the Tomini Tang ate spirolina flakes this evening. And she's still working on the algae disc. Tonight I made a town run and got ammonia neutralizer and I got some Emerald Entre, thanks Dawn. With the combination of mysis and veggies, I bet she'll take right to it.

QT10


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ecosystem, food web, macro algae, planted tank, seagrass

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2023 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2023 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.