TDS of 1600!!

reef_aholic · 12/09/2017, 11:42 PM

Hi guys, recently moved to a small town, and the TDS is 1600. I have an RODI that has a 75 GPD membrane in it, booster pump, DI resin, all the bells and whistles. I am able to get the TDS down to 15 out of the membrane, but at that rate, will chew up resin at an unacceptable rate.

I am unsure of where to go from here. I do not have a softener system in house. I am thinking of getting one. The water here is very hard. I am thinking, if it is softened water, it will be easier on the RO unit, am I correct? What are your guys thoughts??

Thanks.

mcgyvr · 12/10/2017, 07:14 AM

A water softener will help for sure..
You can also look into running dual membranes..

Best bet.. call buckeye hydro.. talk to Russ.. He will hook you up with what you need to be successful...

DesertReefT4r · 12/10/2017, 11:14 AM

I would contact the city abiut the super poor water quality. IIRC over 500ppm is considered by the FDA to be unsafe. So 1600ppm is like wow. It depends on what the 1600ppm consists of. I would also suggest dual membranes and dual di.

billdogg · 12/10/2017, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

A water softener will help for sure..
You can also look into running dual membranes..

Best bet.. call buckeye hydro.. talk to Russ.. He will hook you up with what you need to be successful...

^^^This^^^ Russ is great at what he does and will happily set you up with what you need.

reef_aholic · 12/10/2017, 08:44 PM

thanks guys, the report from the town says majority of it is disolved sulfate, 570 mg/L. the next would be sodium, at 470 mg/L. The total hardness, is saying it is 270 mg/L. Calcium at 75, and Magnesium at 23. Saying total Alkalinity is 530 mg/L as CaCO3.

With Mg and Ca at 23 and 75, would a softener really be worth it? The water has always been bad here. Family have been here forever. with a dual membrane, would it be in series or parallel? if it was a dual membrane, in series, with the TDS being so high, im not sure it would work. I am unsure of running the output of one membrane into the inlet of another, can this be done? havent heard of it.

Opus123 · 12/11/2017, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertReefT4r

I would contact the city abiut the super poor water quality. IIRC over 500ppm is considered by the FDA to be unsafe. So 1600ppm is like wow. It depends on what the 1600ppm consists of. I would also suggest dual membranes and dual di.

I don't think that is a true statement. I've seen that posted a few times but never backed up with proof. If it was true I would think cities would have to post that in their water reports and I've seen several without mentioning tds. I think the FDA regulates the min and max of certain chemicals/minerals but that is it. They do have some regulations on bottled water that mentions tds but it only applies to mineral water.

mcgyvr · 12/11/2017, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opus123

I don't think that is a true statement. I've seen that posted a few times but never backed up with proof. If it was true I would think cities would have to post that in their water reports and I've seen several without mentioning tds. I think the FDA regulates the min and max of certain chemicals/minerals but that is it. They do have some regulations on bottled water that mentions tds but it only applies to mineral water.

Its "partly" true..

Its the EPA not FDA and the 500mg/l(ppm) is the MCL (maximum concentration limit) however its not federally enforceable and is only used as a guideline to indicate that the supplier "should" do something about it.
The TDS MCL is covered in the "secondary" EPA regulations and not the "primary" regulations which are enforceable..
https://www.epa.gov/dwstandardsregul...ance-chemicals

and no way in hell would I routinely drink from water with a TDS that high no matter what the solids are

DesertReefT4r · 12/11/2017, 05:35 PM

Well or ground water?

reef_aholic · 12/11/2017, 06:58 PM

it is well water. It is in Canada, and on the water report sheet, it says that the "Limit" is 1500ppm. I was looking through some older reports, one from 2015, says the TDS was 1721 during that sample.

HBtank · 12/11/2017, 07:06 PM

That is some nasty water... lol. Thought my 300-500 was high.

Washing cars must be fun, bet those water spots could pit the paint!

mcgyvr · 12/12/2017, 06:20 AM

Again... call buckeye hydro and talk to Russ..
He will get you what you need to treat your mud..

lapin · 12/12/2017, 07:10 AM

You might want to do something like the rain water collection people do. It would require you get a large rainwater holding tank and put your water into that. It would require a pump to get that to your RO/DI. You could use the larger 10x4 or 20x4 big blue canisters/filters. Add something like this before the final output:
http://www.jracenstein.com/item/69-2...wer-di-system/
You might even think about something like that for your household water system. Plumb the filters into your homes water system, then you don't need a tank or additional pump. I know they make a .5 micron charcoal filter that might take some of the stuff out.

outy · 12/12/2017, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapin

I know they make a .5 micron charcoal filter that might take some of the stuff out.

Nope. wont change TDS

Gorgok · 12/12/2017, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HBtank

Washing cars must be fun!

I call that rain. Sometimes its only a light wash, sometimes its enough to wash the insides too! (Even after moving them to higher ground.)

Buckeye Hydro · 12/17/2017, 06:44 AM

The 500 ppm TDS non-enforceable limit in the USA is based upon aesthetics - the EPA is telling you that anything with a TDS over 500 ppm will likely have an objectionable taste and/or odor.

To the original poster: I'd want to see a full water analysis, but it sure sounds like you need some POE ("whole-house) treatment. Would likely include a softener as you have over 15 grains per gallon hardness. May or may not include other equipment, depending on the results of the water analysis. Fun fact to know and tell: the TDS coming out of a water softener will be about the same as the TDS going into the softener. So don't think of a softener as a way to reduce TDS - that's not what a softener does.

Without this sort of pretreatment, keep a close eye on the performance of your RO membrane. Don't go below a 4:1 waste water to purified water ratio, and even at that, expect a shortened usable life span for your RO membrane. I'd not even think about running a second membrane in series... just not a good approach with your feedwater.

We have a customer with >2500 ppm well water... so it could be worse!

Russ

Buckeye Hydro · 12/17/2017, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reef_aholic

thanks guys, the report from the town says majority of it is dissolved sulfate, 570 mg/L. the next would be sodium, at 470 mg/L. The total hardness, is saying it is 270 mg/L. Calcium at 75, and Magnesium at 23. Saying total Alkalinity is 530 mg/L as CaCO3.

Does your water smell like rotten eggs (hydrogen sulfide)? Yuck!

reef_aholic · 11/16/2018, 11:54 PM

Hi, no, it doesnt have and H2S in it. It is basically just hard water. Some people in town say it tastes bad, doesnt bother my family. I have a water softener online now. Doesnt help much to get any better direct performance out of membrane, only hoping to prolong the life of the membrane itself. With a input of 1500+, what would you expect as a reasonable ro discharge? I currently am seeing around the 9-16 tds on the output. I have not been running a DI stage as of late, as it was getting too expensive, I have not seen any detrimental effects yet as to water quality in the reef.

Thanks for you input.

WVfishguy · 11/17/2018, 11:56 PM

I collect rainwater in West Virginia. In the plastic rain barrels, the TDS is .5. The pH is 7.0. I don't know how that's possible - I always was told rain goes through CO2 in the atmosphere and gets acidic, but I've tested many times with both meters (yes, calibrated) and reagents, and the pH is still 7.0. I also thought the TDS would be much higher.

If I were the poster, I'd collect rainwater. I keep one barrel under the downspout of my small house, with hoses going to seven other 55-gallon drums, so all eight barrels fill up at the same time. I keep four 55 gallon drums inside. I run the rain water in with pumps, then I filter the rain water with carbon and Magnum diatom filters.

Hell, if my water was as hard as the OP's, I'd run a line from the barrels through a filter and connect it to my washer - it must be terrible to wash clothes with this stuff.

12/09/2017, 11:42 PM	#1
reef_aholic Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 130	TDS of 1600!! Hi guys, recently moved to a small town, and the TDS is 1600. I have an RODI that has a 75 GPD membrane in it, booster pump, DI resin, all the bells and whistles. I am able to get the TDS down to 15 out of the membrane, but at that rate, will chew up resin at an unacceptable rate. I am unsure of where to go from here. I do not have a softener system in house. I am thinking of getting one. The water here is very hard. I am thinking, if it is softened water, it will be easier on the RO unit, am I correct? What are your guys thoughts?? Thanks. __________________ Happy Reefing!!! Current Tank Info: 120 Gal, 30 Gal Sump, Bubble Magus Curve 7, Kamoer 3 stage dosing system, AI Hydra x2.

12/10/2017, 07:14 AM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	A water softener will help for sure.. You can also look into running dual membranes.. Best bet.. call buckeye hydro.. talk to Russ.. He will hook you up with what you need to be successful... __________________ Who me?

12/10/2017, 08:44 PM	#5
reef_aholic Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 130	thanks guys, the report from the town says majority of it is disolved sulfate, 570 mg/L. the next would be sodium, at 470 mg/L. The total hardness, is saying it is 270 mg/L. Calcium at 75, and Magnesium at 23. Saying total Alkalinity is 530 mg/L as CaCO3. With Mg and Ca at 23 and 75, would a softener really be worth it? The water has always been bad here. Family have been here forever. with a dual membrane, would it be in series or parallel? if it was a dual membrane, in series, with the TDS being so high, im not sure it would work. I am unsure of running the output of one membrane into the inlet of another, can this be done? havent heard of it. __________________ Happy Reefing!!! Current Tank Info: 120 Gal, 30 Gal Sump, Bubble Magus Curve 7, Kamoer 3 stage dosing system, AI Hydra x2.

12/11/2017, 06:58 PM	#9
reef_aholic Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 130	it is well water. It is in Canada, and on the water report sheet, it says that the "Limit" is 1500ppm. I was looking through some older reports, one from 2015, says the TDS was 1721 during that sample. __________________ Happy Reefing!!! Current Tank Info: 120 Gal, 30 Gal Sump, Bubble Magus Curve 7, Kamoer 3 stage dosing system, AI Hydra x2.

12/11/2017, 07:06 PM	#10
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	That is some nasty water... lol. Thought my 300-500 was high. Washing cars must be fun, bet those water spots could pit the paint! __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA

12/10/2017, 11:14 AM	#3
DesertReefT4r Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Mesa Az Posts: 771	I would contact the city abiut the super poor water quality. IIRC over 500ppm is considered by the FDA to be unsafe. So 1600ppm is like wow. It depends on what the 1600ppm consists of. I would also suggest dual membranes and dual di.

12/11/2017, 05:35 PM	#8
DesertReefT4r Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Mesa Az Posts: 771	Well or ground water?

12/12/2017, 06:20 AM	#11
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Again... call buckeye hydro and talk to Russ.. He will get you what you need to treat your mud.. __________________ Who me?

12/12/2017, 07:10 AM	#12
lapin Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Austin Posts: 801	You might want to do something like the rain water collection people do. It would require you get a large rainwater holding tank and put your water into that. It would require a pump to get that to your RO/DI. You could use the larger 10x4 or 20x4 big blue canisters/filters. Add something like this before the final output: http://www.jracenstein.com/item/69-2...wer-di-system/ You might even think about something like that for your household water system. Plumb the filters into your homes water system, then you don't need a tank or additional pump. I know they make a .5 micron charcoal filter that might take some of the stuff out. Last edited by lapin; 12/12/2017 at 07:28 AM.

12/17/2017, 06:44 AM	#15
Buckeye Hydro .Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 4,857	The 500 ppm TDS non-enforceable limit in the USA is based upon aesthetics - the EPA is telling you that anything with a TDS over 500 ppm will likely have an objectionable taste and/or odor. To the original poster: I'd want to see a full water analysis, but it sure sounds like you need some POE ("whole-house) treatment. Would likely include a softener as you have over 15 grains per gallon hardness. May or may not include other equipment, depending on the results of the water analysis. Fun fact to know and tell: the TDS coming out of a water softener will be about the same as the TDS going into the softener. So don't think of a softener as a way to reduce TDS - that's not what a softener does. Without this sort of pretreatment, keep a close eye on the performance of your RO membrane. Don't go below a 4:1 waste water to purified water ratio, and even at that, expect a shortened usable life span for your RO membrane. I'd not even think about running a second membrane in series... just not a good approach with your feedwater. We have a customer with >2500 ppm well water... so it could be worse! Russ Last edited by Buckeye Hydro; 12/17/2017 at 06:52 AM.

11/16/2018, 11:54 PM	#17
reef_aholic Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 130	Hi, no, it doesnt have and H2S in it. It is basically just hard water. Some people in town say it tastes bad, doesnt bother my family. I have a water softener online now. Doesnt help much to get any better direct performance out of membrane, only hoping to prolong the life of the membrane itself. With a input of 1500+, what would you expect as a reasonable ro discharge? I currently am seeing around the 9-16 tds on the output. I have not been running a DI stage as of late, as it was getting too expensive, I have not seen any detrimental effects yet as to water quality in the reef. Thanks for you input. __________________ Happy Reefing!!! Current Tank Info: 120 Gal, 30 Gal Sump, Bubble Magus Curve 7, Kamoer 3 stage dosing system, AI Hydra x2.

11/17/2018, 11:56 PM	#18
WVfishguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Huntington, WV Posts: 677	I collect rainwater in West Virginia. In the plastic rain barrels, the TDS is .5. The pH is 7.0. I don't know how that's possible - I always was told rain goes through CO2 in the atmosphere and gets acidic, but I've tested many times with both meters (yes, calibrated) and reagents, and the pH is still 7.0. I also thought the TDS would be much higher. If I were the poster, I'd collect rainwater. I keep one barrel under the downspout of my small house, with hoses going to seven other 55-gallon drums, so all eight barrels fill up at the same time. I keep four 55 gallon drums inside. I run the rain water in with pumps, then I filter the rain water with carbon and Magnum diatom filters. Hell, if my water was as hard as the OP's, I'd run a line from the barrels through a filter and connect it to my washer - it must be terrible to wash clothes with this stuff.