Culture change

[ggdowski]

I'm all for helping startups. However, has there been some sort of explosion of coral stores in Upstate NY? I have to say it is a little frustrating because a number of years back everybody traded or sold at reasonable rates. Frag swaps are not really frag swaps anymore. Everything is now an auction or someone pulls out a business card. I can't imagine all of these will survive. There are at least 4 or 5 of these now in Rochester on top of the prior stores.

[mrpergo]

its very crazy and I've only been in the salt hobby for a little over 4 yrs and I have said the same thing

[Capt_Cully]

It’s funny, the more stuff available under commercial means, the more isolated I feel. I only patronize 1 store. Otherwise, a few known fraggers on line. I wish it was more like it used to be. I’ve got these, you’ve got those, let’s swap, everybody wins.

[ggdowski]

I like the folks that have started the stores. However, FB seems to be the storefront. More often than not... a frag is offered for sale only to find out that it is from one of the stores.

There are literally four or five of these stores within driving distance of my house. There was a time when 3 or 4 stores was almost to much for our area. I think there are now 9 or so stores in Rochester alone. One would think our hobby is flourishing -- but I don't think that is the case.

[Pslreefer]

I find it’s the amount of noobs with more money than brains spending ridiculous money on 1 inch frags cos of “its fire” just to repeat the process until they get tired of everything dying. This resulting in an explosion of sellers peddling the latest “rate” piece.

Things on the whole as a hobby are not like they used to be 5-10years ago as it relates to buying corals.


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[Orcus Varuna]

I just came back to the hobby last year after 5ish years out and I am not a fan of the change for the worse the hobby has taken in many areas, particularly the health of the critters. Even 5 short years ago I feel like I rarely purchased something that died. That is no longer the case... In particular I can’t get a healthy clam and all the fish I have purchased outside of divers den have been disease prone or riddled. Corals I have had some better luck with but feel like my dollar used to buy me more then 1 polyp....


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[der_wille_zur_macht]

I have a hard time with colonies that are bought purely to frag completely to pieces and resell, but I can see why it's an attractive business model and I guess it's not my place to judge people that do what makes them happy.

IMHO, regardless of whether you're an individual or a shop, fragging should be done when a colony is getting too big, or when you want to give away or sell a few pieces of something that's doing well in your tank. I like it when LFSs can facilitate that by buying and selling frags, alongside selling "whole" corals. Frags give me the chance to get some variety, but they're a means to an end, not the end in and of itself. I'm trying to grow a reef in my tank, not build up a baseball card collection. I want frags so I can glue them to my rockwork and watch them grow (or die, I suppose), not so I can line them up on eggcrate as part of a collection.

[ggdowski]

Some haven’t survived. I think Kien’s store closed. I’m concerned about losing some of the cornerstones of the area.
I found out yesterday that Scott converted his school tank in HF. A little bummed but understand. Miss the camaraderie that used to exist.


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[Flanders]

Most of these new stores won't survive. IMO auctioning off frags on Facebook or Ebay is not a model that can support a business with a storefront.

[Gary Majchrzak]

storefronts are out

online in

I try to support our LFSs as much as possible. Personally, I've not had as good a success rate with livestock purchased online as I've had buying locally.

[ggdowski]

Unfortunately, I agree. I think part of it is driven by prices in the industry and local state taxes. It is to easy and convenient to look on the internet for best prices -- especially when shipping costs are included.

I know that G focuses a lot on services at ABC for this reason. They have a storefront, but the business is supported a lot by services. I went to CF for their anniversary last friday night (continues through today) and it was great.

[homer1475]

And this is why I have tried to visit most stores in the state.

I hate buying livestock online, the only livestock I have ever bought online was just very recently. A yellow eye kole tang, as I called nearly every shop in the area and was told that with HI's recent stopping of commercial fishing, if I could find one online to grab it.

I would much rather support a LFS then any online vendor. I also don't facebook, but I know quite a few LFS's have gone to facebook auctions, and an online storefront.

[ggdowski]

Just bought a yellow eye Kole tang locally.


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[homer1475]

Well whats local? I called the few I know of in and around the north country/'cuse area. I don't think I would drive to Rochester/Buffalo for a fish. It's a 4 hour drive 1 way.

[ggdowski]

House of Corals in penfield/Fairport


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[homer1475]

Yup been there. Think that was the place that was owned by a rather young couple with a very large dog?

I know everyone in your area lists that as one of the "premium" shops in the area, but I left feeling very unimpressed.

But yes, a 4 hour drive one way. lol Not happening for a 50$ fish. I would spend probably close to that in gas for the drive. Although I have done it before and ended up with a 60$ coral. so all in all that 60$ coral was well over 100$ by time I bought gas and lunch. lmao

[homer1475]

FYI, upstate NY is north of Syracuse. You know, farm and snow country.

[ggdowski]

I hear you. They are all shops that are just starting. I don't know if they will survive. David and Siobhan are both knowledgeable and have been in the hobby for a while. It is a new store and will take time. I lived in Fayetteville for a while -- so I understand the cost and time of traveling.

[Flanders]

Originally Posted by homer1475

Yup been there. Think that was the place that was owned by a rather young couple with a very large dog?

I know everyone in your area lists that as one of the "premium" shops in the area, but I left feeling very unimpressed.

But yes, a 4 hour drive one way. lol Not happening for a 50$ fish. I would spend probably close to that in gas for the drive. Although I have done it before and ended up with a 60$ coral. so all in all that 60$ coral was well over 100$ by time I bought gas and lunch. lmao

Just keep reminding yourself that you get to live in Old Forge, smack in the middle of one of the most beautiful parts of the world. I think that'll help.

[homer1475]

Originally Posted by Flanders

Just keep reminding yourself that you get to live in Old Forge, smack in the middle of one of the most beautiful parts of the world. I think that'll help.

That and the sheer amount of snow is the exact reason I moved here.

OOh I don't mind traveling for my livestock, but a 4 hour drive(probably close to 60$ in gas) for a 50$ fish isn't cost effective when I can get one for just 30$ S&H.

[d0ughb0y]

Originally Posted by Pslreefer

I find it’s the amount of noobs with more money than brains spending ridiculous money on 1 inch frags cos of “its fire” just to repeat the process until they get tired of everything dying. This resulting in an explosion of sellers peddling the latest “rate” piece.

Things on the whole as a hobby are not like they used to be 5-10years ago as it relates to buying corals.


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1. more money, more brains
2. more money no brains
3. no money, more brains
4. no money, no brains

I'd rather be 2 than 3 or 4. but sadly, I'm 4. lol.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Jamie Craggs at Horniman was having an Acropora larvae count guessing game earlier today on fb.
Jamie spawns Acropora corals in captivity "across the pond" in England.

CF's anniversary sale was great- I got some stuff. That place over in Victor was pretty great last time I stopped over there a few months ago and I'm contemplating going back.

Online livestock purchases have pretty much been very disappointing to me and I would not be where I am without the help of our LFS's.