Learning/rebuilding from my epic fail

[trueblackpercula]

Well I hope your system come back quick.
Michael

[sahin]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Well.. The corals were not happy for the few days directly after the shredding- when it was very cloudy. I also added a lot of carbon which may or may not have helped remove some of the anemone poison but I'm sure it stripped out some beneficial nutrients..
Actually, the corals responded quite favorably to the waterchange I did.. I may do another tonight...10%..

Water changes and running fine filter floss and discarding it every day will help a lot. Maybe even stuff a GFO reactor with a load of filter wool and run it with a decent flow on the pump...as the filter wool begins to clog it will capture smaller and smaller particles.

I would carry out 10-15% water changes every 3 days for at least 8 days...with thoroughly mixed saltwater. It might not be practical for your tank size, but water changes are my number 1 treatment for most coral issues or events like this.

[ReefSalt]

Mat, you got to load some more pics here bro, can't wait to see it Im sure you will have it looking like your original setup within no time.

I`m waiting for my Tunze 6105`s to crap out....wishfull thinking before I get a Gyre`s, but I will wait until they iron out the noise/vibration issues first.

My setup is almost complete just got to plumb my two 50 gallon water change buckets and Im good. You can come by anytime when/if your on the Northshore and have a look. your always more than welcome .

[mhucasey]

Ahem. Its Wednesday....

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by sahin

Water changes and running fine filter floss and discarding it every day will help a lot. Maybe even stuff a GFO reactor with a load of filter wool and run it with a decent flow on the pump...as the filter wool begins to clog it will capture smaller and smaller particles.

I would carry out 10-15% water changes every 3 days for at least 8 days...with thoroughly mixed saltwater. It might not be practical for your tank size, but water changes are my number 1 treatment for most coral issues or events like this.

Good advice, sahin! Thanks for that. I am doing 10% twice a week. I do run a filter sock.. But the cloudiness isn't too bad anymore.
I've been adding some kz coral snow at night and it seems to be clearing things up a bit. The water changes, I definetly will stick with for a while.

Rob, thanks for the offer. I am in Laval periodically but usually running like crazy. I'd love to see your system in person. The build is coming along nicely!
I really don't find the gyres that noisy compared to pumps that more the same amount of water..

[reefmutt]

Well, Matt.. Just did n and p.
N is down to .5 and p is at .07..
I added extra cano3 to my vsv/cano3 mix but I think I might reduce it, or stop it completely- see if the pellets have begun to work..
I kind of want to remove my cheato.. I don't think I'll need it and it just makes a mess..
I do have to get n back up a touch and removing the cheato may achieve that without my adding cano3..

[mhucasey]

Nice!!! Those are trending the right way for sure. I would keep an eye on the nitrate and not let it bottom out. As for the Phosphate, getting a reading on it has to be for "information only". When I switched over to the all-in-ones there was a bit of phosphate and low nitrate. I had to add nitrate for a month or so to keep it from bottoming out, then it stabilized about 2 ppm. No more dosing needed for at least two months now, and about the time of stabilization the tank started really humming.

I ran out of phosphate test packets about the time of stabilization and at that time tests were about 0.00 to 0.02. In my mind the nitrate value is a better indicator now, and of course the corals themselves. With phosphate low, the nitrate can't get totally stripped to nothing, and a portion of the phosphate is removed directly by the pellets. In any case, if I did a phosphate test now no matter what the number was I'd probably leave things as they are unless the corals started having issues.

I'm glad to hear things are stabilizing for you! Some pictures soon perhaps?

[mhucasey]

Oh and chaeto is good for collecting crud and not much else in my opinion, and you want to wean the system of the other export processes slowly. I'd pull the chaeto now and then cut the VSV dose down bit by bit to zero over the course of 2 or 3 weeks. Just keep the Nitrate from going undetectable

[markalot]

Catching up, interesting discussions. It's almost next Wednesday, big things happen on Wednesdays around here?

I find it either interesting or entertaining that All-In-One has GFO or some other PO4 remover built in. I suppose they are thinking more GFO will be exposed as the pellets dissolve and this helps keep PO4 in check? Seems like it would all depend on the tank and the rate of nitrate production as to how fast the GFO gets exhausted vs how fast new GFO is exposed.

[mhucasey]

Its pretty interesting from a couple of different angles:
1) GFO is an iron source, no matter what anyone tries to say to the contrary. Iron is an essential element for bacterioplankton growth. Putting an iron source and surface right at the same place as the carbon source is a good plan. Basically thats what Zeovit does as well, provides an iron-rich surface where the bacteria can grow. The question is, can the bacteria utilize the Phosphate that are attracted to the GFO?
2) The fact that the GFO is complexed with the pellet means that there is a slow exposure of the GFO and its Iron to the water. This prevents some of the issues with "Too much GFO".
3) The pellets simplify the balancing of the nitrate and phosphate with Carbon. In my system my nitrate is holding steady at 2ppm without direct dosing of nitrate any longer. I used to have to keep dosing it or it would eventually go to zero with regular pellets.

I think this is because the pellets balance themselves a bit:
a)Phospahtes too high, Nitrates too low, more phosphate binds to the pellets but there is not enough nitrate to grow much bacteria. Phosphate steadily removed.

b) Phosphates very low, nitrates high, pellets function more like standard pellets, growing larger amounts of bacteria and using any available phosphate for bacterial growth. Nitrate declines in this scenario.

Eventually these trend toward a balance where a small amount of nitrate and phosphate will be left in the system.
All my speculation based on observation and a lot of carbon-nitrate-phosphate experimentation over the last few years and now the last several months with the All in one pellets.

[reefmutt]

Good evening! Heh.. Big things.. Well.. Not huge but here's my update.
Matt, your description of the AIO pellets seems plausible.. I really have no idea if there is gfo in them... Could be..
So numbers. Since last Wednesday I have removed the cheato and stopped all vsv- right in the money, Matt!
N is holding at .75 and p is at .06. I have not tried to manipulate that because if Matt is correct, p should fall on its own due to the AIO pellets.. At any rate, I'm not too enthusiastic about dosing n. I still have slightly cloudy water, bryopsis, cyano and the front glass needs cleaning daily or I can't see into the tank. So, even though I am getting low readings on my tests, there is plenty of nutrient to go around.
Corals are so, so. I have a lost only a few but several that began paleing or browning haven't changed much. Some of the deep waters are perfect.. It's really random which are weathering the storm and which are not.. I added a few frags last week after things had stabilized a bit and they re doing the best.
I have gotten into a feeding routine as well so nutrients are staying stable at the moment. I wil add more fish because I do want to bring the n up a little. Since adding the recirculating reactor with a control valve, I have it turned down pretty low so I don't have a lot of flow from it into the tank this seems to be allowing me to keep n at all.
Next, a few lousy pics.. I'll start with the ugly and move up to bad and then the good (ish)
Ugly:
Ssc:

This one had better pe and a little more color but it's hanging in.

This one had great pe but has lost it as well as some color

This one had amazing sky blue growth tipe when I got it.. Not so much now..

[reefmutt]

Ok next..
This was such a strong metallic green when I got it.. I know green.. But really cool growth pattern.. Hopefully color and growth will return..

A not great ice/fire echinata shot. This one was added last so it has seen the best stability. Hopefully it'll hang in there.

Another that had fantastic growth tips but now is just green..

Again. It's a waiting game now..

[reefmutt]

And here a few that have barely noticed all the turmoil in the tank..
Not sure Biggles is even checking in here anymore since there's nithingbto look at but here's his favorite piece.. It's even grown a tiny bit..
RR red dragon:

These next ones have been in as long as the red which is basically through all the hell that broke loose..

[reefmutt]

Here's a coupl of new ones that seem to be doing very well so far..
Cali tort.. With a cobalt tort in the back..

A tabling acro.. Not sure what..

Well.. That's about it for now..
I'm going to try to get better photos but the cloudy water I really a total pita..
Gotta wait it out!
I'll post a few more shots soon..

[mhucasey]

Quick question Matt, what is the flow rate through the pellet reactor and total system volume? I'm happy to hear your success, I will have more later

[mhucasey]

I am so excited to see your tank progress, nothing good happens too fast with SPS as you know but it looks like you are starting to pull out of it. I am Highly jealous of your smooth-skinned("deepwater") acro collection. I like the variety of forms that acropora come in but if I had to choose one, the smooth skin and tubular coralites are my favorite. What is your combination when all lights are on at "Noon" in the reef?(Which bulbs?what settings?)

As for your to do list, keep in mind you will not get rid of Bryopsis without manual removal or something that eats or pulls it out. It is weaker if it is in high flow areas, as in low flow areas it collects detritus and the rotting gunk feeds it. I don't know what to make of how long it takes to get glass dirty. I hear some people say that it takes a week or more between cleanings when their system is good, I have never come close to that. When I have nutrient spikes now(very small ones like after killing algae or fragging corals) the glass needs to be cleaned once a day or everything is a bit hazy, and from the side the pane looks brownish or greenish.
When its humming really well I can go 3 days before the haziness bugs me and the haze is usually brown in this case. Algae on the glass can become a good indicator for you once everything is dialed in.

Now that you are switched over to the pellets, I would be interested in what your flow through is in relation to your system volume. I have tweaked the flow through my reactor so that as of tonight's measurement, the flow is 156LPH or ~41GPH. That ended up being slower than my reference tank indicated, but it seems to be keeping things in check without cyano showing up on the sand.

I originally targeted the flow that Kryztoff(lunar) was using, he stated 500LPH through his reactor for a system that is 200Gallons. If I roughly cut that in half the 250LPH was way too much for my 120Gallon system, cyano started in on the sand like that. Anyhow, at least this gives you a reference point when you set your flow rate.

Continued good luck and thanks for the awesome update!

[sahin]

I am jealous of your deepwater collection as well Matt. Apart from the SSC and the Aussie Echinata, the rest look quite happy. Will be following keenly to see how this AIO pellets work out for you. All that I've seen so far suggests it is a very good product.

[markalot]

Looks good Matt, even the colorless ones look ready to recover! I also love all the smooth skinned species.

[trueblackpercula]

Hey Matt everything looks like they are returning for you.

Michael

[mhucasey]

Where is this week's update Matt? Hope everything is continuing to improve!

[reefmutt]

Matt, I really apreciate you taking such interest in my tank!
I haven't been posting anything due to my frustration and also because I was getting ready to go away for a week. I am in Sanibel, Florida right now with my parents are trudging over to my house in Montreal to feed the fish once a day..

Last week I had turned down the flow through my pellet reactor and saw a small uptick in nutrients. They went to 2ppm n and .08 p. But with me away and the tank getting less food, I assume that may drop a bit, so I didn't adjust anything.
Before I left, the tank was still constantly cloudy with rampant cyano all over the rocks and sand. Glass is turning green daily and corals are for the most part not doing great. Some are fine but most are just hanging in there.
The bryopsis is not growing rapidly, however and I have been manually removing it. I'm not sure what the tank will look like when I get home on the weekend and I am having trouble caring that much. It's been 3 years of my tank, in its current location, doing only mediocrely well.. Not sure how much more of this I feel like watching.
I'm not finished, that's for sure. I'll give it the whole summer and I will try to not make any big changes..
I would say that my flow through the pellet reactor is probably around 80g or 310 ish L per hour. My system volume is 300 gallons.. If I reduce the throughput any more I think my nutrients will jump..
I'll see where the numbers are when I get home and act accordingly.
As for lighting, my 3 GHL Mitras are running at about 40% max intensity at their apex of the day with mostly blue leds running. If Blues were at 100, whites would be at around 20%. I have 2x Giesemann actinic + 2giesemann Lagoon blue and a Ati coral plus over the tank and then a set of 2x 24 pure actinics on either side of the tank aiming inwards. The 2 x150w radiums come on for 3 two hour intervals during the day.
I really don't see any pattern to which corals do well and which start to go downhill. Some old ones are good and some old ones are almost dead. Same for newer additions. I guess it's just depends on the coral and its ability to adapt.
Sahin, Mark, Mike, thanks for hangin' in!
I think that the macro shots make things look better than they really are... Or maybe I'm just really pessimistic at the moment....
I'll post some results on Sunday!

[mhucasey]

Enjoy your time in Florida, try not to worry about the tank since you can't do anything about it right now. Who knows, maybe leaving the tank status quo for a while will be what it needs.
I think the flow through the reactor is good, at 80 gph that means the tank volume is turned over six and a half times per day.

Why do you have the radiums turn on and off during the day?

Hang in there Matt!

[reefmutt]

Thanks! Always nice to get away.
no particular reason to have the mh on intervals, really..
I just did it that way..
i may increase to a constant 6-7 hours in the future..

[mhucasey]

hmm. Well sometimes its helpful to eliminate possible sources of problems, no matter how unlikely they may be. I would run the Least amount of light that allows viewing for the full 12 hours and then use the full lighting for a solid 7 or 8 hours. That way you are in line with 90+ percent of the tanks out there and you can more easily eliminate the lighting as a causative factor in any issues that you have.

When i did my experiment with running 4 bulbs as my dusk/dawn lighting then 8 bulbs for the 7 hour "higher light" period I didn't have any losses, but the corals seemed "worn out" by the end of the day. There was a subtle color shift and there would be less PE near the end of the day. From my understanding, when the corals hit their daily photosaturation point, they spend any extra energy gained by photosynthesis for repairing the damage done by the overexposure of light. Something to consider.

[sahin]

Matt in respect of the Cyanno, do you have the output of the pellet reactor going to your skimmers intake or at least VERY near it?