Anthias dying one by one

[fishfreak2009]

Originally Posted by Naraku

I don't think it matters. In the end, you won't know if your next order is cyanided anyways.
Yet, we pay premium to our suppliers for #%@^@^.
I am not happy about it.

But it does, if you know your fish were collected with cyanide you can spend your money elsewhere. Know your supplier. Do not buy direct ship fish. Avoid wholesalers known to sell fish with issues. I've actually cut myself down from about 6 different fish stores and online vendors down to 2 LFS. Both stores either use A&M Aquatics in Lansing MI or Segrest Farms in Florida. Also you can avoid fish from certain areas, like I posted earlier. Fish from Hawaii, Florida, the Maldives, and the Cook Islands cost a premium for good reason: they are collected better, and held and conditioned better before being sold.

Edit: For what it's worth, I avoid Quality Marine like the plague. Over the years I've had way more fish come with ich, velvet, flukes, Uronema, Vibrio, and even Marine tuberculosis from Quality Marine than from any other wholesaler in the country. I lost over $5000 worth of fish (my previous setup) because of marine tuberculosis from a quality marine fish that a family member added to the tank as a gift. Never again. It's not a pretty sight having to sterilize a 380 gallon tank containing roughly 65 fish at the time, and having to euthanize all the fish (they were all dropping like flies and there is no treatment for marine TB in saltwater fish).

[Naraku]

OK that explains. Most all of my fish came from QM via liveaquaria.

Originally Posted by fishfreak2009

But it does, if you know your fish were collected with cyanide you can spend your money elsewhere. Know your supplier. Do not buy direct ship fish. Avoid wholesalers known to sell fish with issues. I've actually cut myself down from about 6 different fish stores and online vendors down to 2 LFS. Both stores either use A&M Aquatics in Lansing MI or Segrest Farms in Florida. Also you can avoid fish from certain areas, like I posted earlier. Fish from Hawaii, Florida, the Maldives, and the Cook Islands cost a premium for good reason: they are collected better, and held and conditioned better before being sold.

Edit: For what it's worth, I avoid Quality Marine like the plague. Over the years I've had way more fish come with ich, velvet, flukes, Uronema, Vibrio, and even Marine tuberculosis from Quality Marine than from any other wholesaler in the country. I lost over $5000 worth of fish (my previous setup) because of marine tuberculosis from a quality marine fish that a family member added to the tank as a gift. Never again. It's not a pretty sight having to sterilize a 380 gallon tank containing roughly 65 fish at the time, and having to euthanize all the fish (they were all dropping like flies and there is no treatment for marine TB in saltwater fish).

[Naraku]

Can you tell me the symptoms of marine tuberculosis?

I would like to know.

Thank you

Originally Posted by fishfreak2009

But it does, if you know your fish were collected with cyanide you can spend your money elsewhere. Know your supplier. Do not buy direct ship fish. Avoid wholesalers known to sell fish with issues. I've actually cut myself down from about 6 different fish stores and online vendors down to 2 LFS. Both stores either use A&M Aquatics in Lansing MI or Segrest Farms in Florida. Also you can avoid fish from certain areas, like I posted earlier. Fish from Hawaii, Florida, the Maldives, and the Cook Islands cost a premium for good reason: they are collected better, and held and conditioned better before being sold.

Edit: For what it's worth, I avoid Quality Marine like the plague. Over the years I've had way more fish come with ich, velvet, flukes, Uronema, Vibrio, and even Marine tuberculosis from Quality Marine than from any other wholesaler in the country. I lost over $5000 worth of fish (my previous setup) because of marine tuberculosis from a quality marine fish that a family member added to the tank as a gift. Never again. It's not a pretty sight having to sterilize a 380 gallon tank containing roughly 65 fish at the time, and having to euthanize all the fish (they were all dropping like flies and there is no treatment for marine TB in saltwater fish).

[Naraku]

Had you have any luck with blue zoo aquatics?

Originally Posted by fishfreak2009

But it does, if you know your fish were collected with cyanide you can spend your money elsewhere. Know your supplier. Do not buy direct ship fish. Avoid wholesalers known to sell fish with issues. I've actually cut myself down from about 6 different fish stores and online vendors down to 2 LFS. Both stores either use A&M Aquatics in Lansing MI or Segrest Farms in Florida. Also you can avoid fish from certain areas, like I posted earlier. Fish from Hawaii, Florida, the Maldives, and the Cook Islands cost a premium for good reason: they are collected better, and held and conditioned better before being sold.

Edit: For what it's worth, I avoid Quality Marine like the plague. Over the years I've had way more fish come with ich, velvet, flukes, Uronema, Vibrio, and even Marine tuberculosis from Quality Marine than from any other wholesaler in the country. I lost over $5000 worth of fish (my previous setup) because of marine tuberculosis from a quality marine fish that a family member added to the tank as a gift. Never again. It's not a pretty sight having to sterilize a 380 gallon tank containing roughly 65 fish at the time, and having to euthanize all the fish (they were all dropping like flies and there is no treatment for marine TB in saltwater fish).

[fishfreak2009]

Originally Posted by Naraku

Had you have any luck with blue zoo aquatics?

Never tried. I like to see my fish before I buy them and observe them eating and doing well. I've been screwed over too many times over the past 14 years.

Edit: as for marine TB, they get red sores similar to Uronema. They also die within 2-3 days of showing symptoms. Those that do live longer go off feed, become skinny, and often develop kinks in the spine. Again, you can send it in for culture. I did that as well as attempted to identify it under a scope using a swab at the clinic I work and I was correct. Diagnosis was confirmed by reference lab.

[Naraku]

Did you use bleach to sterilize for TB?
I heard those are hard to rid of.

Originally Posted by Naraku

Can you tell me the symptoms of marine tuberculosis?

I would like to know.

Thank you

[fishfreak2009]

Originally Posted by Naraku

Did you use bleach to sterilize for TB?
I heard those are hard to rid of.

5 gallons of bleach directly into the tank. If anything survives that it deserves to survive.

[Naraku]

5 gal into 380 gal?

Originally Posted by fishfreak2009

5 gallons of bleach directly into the tank. If anything survives that it deserves to survive.

[fishfreak2009]

Originally Posted by Naraku

5 gal into 380 gal?

Yup. I let the whole system run with bleach in it like that for 3 days. Basement smelled like a public pool.

Edit: 5 teaspoons of bleach makes 50 gallons of water safe to drink so I did go super overboard, but it worked. I also kept some freshwater fish in the tank for a short time after sterilization to make sure they didn't contract anything. Tore that down and reset it up as a saltwater about 2 months later.

[ginpang]

Originally Posted by fishfreak2009

Yup. I let the whole system run with bleach in it like that for 3 days. Basement smelled like a public pool.

Edit: 5 teaspoons of bleach makes 50 gallons of water safe to drink so I did go super overboard, but it worked. I also kept some freshwater fish in the tank for a short time after sterilization to make sure they didn't contract anything. Tore that down and reset it up as a saltwater about 2 months later.

When I caught it they gave me minocycline for 6 months. I couldn't save who I thought was the culprit but saved everyone else with neomycin.


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[Irishdolphin]

Just wondering if the fact that in all cases mentioned the chronology of deaths is strictly from smallest first to largest last suggests there might be something other than cyanide at play here? Or is it simply the cyanide kills in that specific orde because relatively speaking the smaller fish are getting higher doses?

[anthonys51]

I would think it wouldn't be poisoning either but to be honest I have no idea. Will all them dying smallest to weakest it's puzzling. I had a pair live for 2 years in a 57 started with 4. 2 died in first month or so. I had 8 other fish in there with them.


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[anthonys51]

If I had to guess I am thinking a combo or internal disease or parasite combined with malnutrition or not eating enough. It would explain why it started with the smallest weakest first. Not time try soaking the food in some type of medication first. Might work. But I will admit it's just a guess


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[Naraku]

Are you sure they swallow food and not spit them out?
spitting =/= eating

[hanas]

I wanted to provide an update on my original post from January....

About a week or so after my original post date, the smaller anthias began eating again and was acting completely normal until this past week, where it is now displaying the same symptoms again. It will eat some pieces of food (and hold it so I know it's consumed), but also spit some out.

I have noticed a part of the back fan has been nipped so I'm inclined to think it's hierarchical picking amongst the anthias trio, would this happen in cycles? Meaning several months apart like in this case?

Considering I've used 3 rounds of Prazi in QT and these fish have been in my display tank since October, I would have to rule out flukes or other types of internal parasites since I don't think that would come and go without treatment....meaning the fish wouldn't have survived in January when it first displayed these behaviors. In addition, no new fish have been added either, and I always follow the same QT procedure so nothing new could have been added.

Could this just be a cyclical pecking order amongst the trio? They are all females currently....

[anthonys51]

Can't completely rule out diseases simple because you treat and qt. A lot is not know about Fish and diseases. We simple haven't done enough scientific reread to learn about them as it pertains to our little closed systems. In Saying that Anthias have really fast metabolism and need to eAt small meals though out the day. Also you need to feed a vary diet to ensure they are eAting the right food. Also stress form others in the tank and especially others in the pecking order can eventually be too much on the fish especially if water quality and feeding isn't perfect. This isn't to say you aren't doing everything right and maybe an internal parasite or disease simple didn't just linger and eventually came out to kill the fish. I kept freshwater discus for years. I had fish live and grow for 2 years then simple just stop eating and die. With no new fish ever added to tank. So it's hard to pinpoint sometimes why these things happen


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[ca1ore]

It's certainly possible that one fish is transitioning and exerting dominance. doesn't seem like disease really.

[anthonys51]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

It's certainly possible that one fish is transitioning and exerting dominance. doesn't seem like disease really.

Fish can still get a disease months and even years after you put them into a tank even though no new fish was added. You been in this hobby a long time. Tell me you never had a fish die out of the blue even though no new fish have been introduced to the tank and water was fine


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[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by anthonys51

Fish can still get a disease months and even years after you put them into a tank even though no new fish was added. You been in this hobby a long time. Tell me you never had a fish die out of the blue even though no new fish have been introduced to the tank and water was fine.

Depends on how you define 'disease'. Did I ever have a fish develop a communicable disease many months after the last introduction - nope, never. Have had some die for no apparent external reason, yes. Not saying it's impossible, thus my use of the word 'seems', but it is odd.

[anthonys51]

So why did you think your fish died for no apparent reason. We will assume it wasn't old age. You don't think it was disease?


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[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by anthonys51

So why did you think your fish died for no apparent reason. We will assume it wasn't old age. You don't think it was disease?

Like I said, depends on what you mean by disease. Couple of years ago I had an otherwise healthy and eating Sailfin just die. It was propped up between two rocks as if it was just resting. Hard to diagnose 'no apparent reason' deaths. I'd had it for two years so I think collection reasons can be reasonably ruled out. Stroke, heart attack, alimentary obstruction ...... who knows. Those would be 'disease' though FWIW, anthias particularly can be very twitchy and be literally scared to death.

[anthonys51]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Like I said, depends on what you mean by disease. Couple of years ago I had an otherwise healthy and eating Sailfin just die. It was propped up between two rocks as if it was just resting. Hard to diagnose 'no apparent reason' deaths. I'd had it for two years so I think collection reasons can be reasonably ruled out. Stroke, heart attack, alimentary obstruction ...... who knows. Those would be 'disease' though FWIW, anthias particularly can be very twitchy and be literally scared to death.

Yes anthias can be very scared fish. I notice the more fish in the tank the more they come out and swim

I have 3 different types. Each one I started in my 80 frag as the only fish beside yellow wrasse and socpas tang. They all took days to eat aggressively and would all run to hide when I can back to the tank. As soon as I put them in my 265 with a lot of fish they where not shy at all. Well besides running when my male lyertail chased them


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[running scott]

No success with Anthias for me either. Started with a group of 5 female Lyretails. One would turn male, wear himself out displaying, chasing, not eating enough, and eventually die. Each one did this in succession. I now have one female that's been just fine.

[anthonys51]

Originally Posted by running scott

No success with Anthias for me either. Started with a group of 5 female Lyretails. One would turn male, wear himself out displaying, chasing, not eating enough, and eventually die. Each one did this in succession. I now have one female that's been just fine.

If your tank isn't bigger than a 125 I would only keep one. Yes you can and might get away with keeping a few in a smaller tank. But most of the time they bully each other to death


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[running scott]

Originally Posted by anthonys51

If your tank isn't bigger than a 125 I would only keep one. Yes you can and might get away with keeping a few in a smaller tank. But most of the time they bully each other to death


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This is in a 160 gallon tank. Only the males would die one at a time.


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