Royal-Exclusiv / Vertex Cone Skimmer Club

JohnL · 09/05/2009, 09:11 PM

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5#post15656095

Gen21 · 09/05/2009, 09:11 PM

And a very very terrible/horrible video... =P it was taken with a poor camera cellphone!! hehe

bigtex52 · 09/05/2009, 09:28 PM

WOOHOO! Thread split!

143gadgets · 09/06/2009, 12:52 AM

AWESOME!!!! Gotta LOVE Alphas.

Dave's Reef · 09/06/2009, 01:35 AM

Woo Hoo, hooray for the split!

Alpha you are the King of skimmers!!!!!

subman719 · 09/06/2009, 05:25 AM

Do the SPLIT dance!!!

Ok, on to real business:
I REALLY like the fact that they put the mufflers on the 300 external to the wedge pipe, NOT on top of the wedge pipe with the air tube running through it! I TRUELY believe that having that hole for the air tube in the side of the wedgepipe on the 170's will cause performance issues due to inconsistent backpressure. I think that should be part of a "repair" kit or as they call it in the rest of the market "recall" kit.

I think the kit should include the following:
New impeller,
new wedge pipe "without" the hole in the side,
a bracket to mount the muffler "externally" to the side of the wedge pipe,
a new nozzle of properly tuned length

I truely think these items will be necessary to correct all the issues of this cone skimmer and "upgrade" it to the properly functioning status of a "Bubble King"! As I've mentioned before, these are supposed to be the BEST skimmers on the market and definately are the most EXPENSIVE skimmers on the market! I would just like to see them maintain their status as being THE BEST!

As far as my 170 goes, I seem to be getting good foam but it is very sensitive to adjustment. I either get dry skim or it vomits over! I'm going to pull out my nose cone from 1mm to 2mm out and see what happens.

DarG · 09/06/2009, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by subman719
Do the SPLIT dance!!!

Ok, on to real business:
I REALLY like the fact that they put the mufflers on the 300 external to the wedge pipe, NOT on top of the wedge pipe with the air tube running through it! I TRUELY believe that having that hole for the air tube in the side of the wedgepipe on the 170's will cause performance issues due to inconsistent backpressure. I think that should be part of a "repair" kit or as they call it in the rest of the market "recall" kit.

I think the kit should include the following:
New impeller,
new wedge pipe "without" the hole in the side,
a bracket to mount the muffler "externally" to the side of the wedge pipe,
a new nozzle of properly tuned length

I truely think these items will be necessary to correct all the issues of this cone skimmer and "upgrade" it to the properly functioning status of a "Bubble King"! As I've mentioned before, these are supposed to be the BEST skimmers on the market and definately are the most EXPENSIVE skimmers on the market! I would just like to see them maintain their status as being THE BEST!

As far as my 170 goes, I seem to be getting good foam but it is very sensitive to adjustment. I either get dry skim or it vomits over! I'm going to pull out my nose cone from 1mm to 2mm out and see what happens.

If Jeremy tests the new impeller and that solves the surging AND still allows the correct balance of air/water for the skimmer body/neck then I think the 170's problems will be solved. The impeller may need to be combined with new (different length) inserts in order to work properly with the 170 body ... The goal, I would think, is to eliminate surging without increasing air/water ... assuming that the balance was found during initial design. They have to keep the discharge microbubble free.
But that said, I think there necessarily has to be a pretty fine line between non surging 170's and surging 170's despite the fact that the surging 170's are in the minority by a large margin (reportedly). So personally, I believe that the new impellers (and inserts if needed) should be sent to ALL 170 owners, not just those with surging issues.
Profit margin for RE/Vertex isnt going to take that much of a hit and it would be the only right thing to do IMO.

I dont agree that the through the wedgepipe airline is a problem at all however. It shouldnt cause any performance issues. I have no issues with it at all on the 200 and I personally like the sleek, inline design with the muffler sitting directly on top of the wedgepipe.

subman719 · 09/06/2009, 07:29 AM

I too like the "sleek" design however, the purpose of the wedge is to restrict flow and raise the water level. If there is leakage, it would allow the water level to go back down. The only way it would stay balanced is if the airline had no movement whatsoever with no variable leakage. As long as everything stays the same, it should be fine.

I hope they don't intend on rasing the price of these because since they "cut corners" they should keep the price cut as well. These could remain "cost effective entry level" models to the normal bubble king line. Sorry, I'm a prefectionist!

Husky_1 · 09/06/2009, 07:44 AM

Great thoughts subman,
Lets see what happens with the new impeller that is being sent over. I also agree on a way to hang the muffler, I see water coming out of mine too and the pulling down on the tube just does not seem to do the work.

kvmn · 09/06/2009, 08:54 AM

i am with you bro,,,i think the muffler should be like alpha300 so that water doesn't coming out from small hole ,,,where the airhose go in,,,and its would affect the performance some ,,,
any body else agree on this??

Quote:

Originally posted by subman719
Do the SPLIT dance!!!

Ok, on to real business:
I REALLY like the fact that they put the mufflers on the 300 external to the wedge pipe, NOT on top of the wedge pipe with the air tube running through it! I TRUELY believe that having that hole for the air tube in the side of the wedgepipe on the 170's will cause performance issues due to inconsistent backpressure. I think that should be part of a "repair" kit or as they call it in the rest of the market "recall" kit.

I think the kit should include the following:
New impeller,
new wedge pipe "without" the hole in the side,
a bracket to mount the muffler "externally" to the side of the wedge pipe,
a new nozzle of properly tuned length

I truely think these items will be necessary to correct all the issues of this cone skimmer and "upgrade" it to the properly functioning status of a "Bubble King"! As I've mentioned before, these are supposed to be the BEST skimmers on the market and definately are the most EXPENSIVE skimmers on the market! I would just like to see them maintain their status as being THE BEST!

As far as my 170 goes, I seem to be getting good foam but it is very sensitive to adjustment. I either get dry skim or it vomits over! I'm going to pull out my nose cone from 1mm to 2mm out and see what happens.

robthorn · 09/06/2009, 12:08 PM

King of skimmers? A bubble magus 100 just ran next to my 200 for 4 days straight with no adjustment to either. The bubble magus has 1 inch of fairly light skimmate. The vertex 200? absolutely nothing. Maybe a couple drops but thats it. Glad all of your 200's are working. Must just be my luck. I figured the neck would be full of gunk at least but it has surpringly little on it. Glad when tuesday comes so I can ship it back.

subman719 · 09/06/2009, 12:16 PM

I'm starting to think that instead of re-inventing the wheel, they should have just kept the standard Bubble King designs and just tried cone bodies on them but keep everything else the same. That may have worked better!

HeneryH · 09/06/2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by robthorn
... no adjustment to either. ... Glad when tuesday comes so I can ship it back.

Don't you think you SHOULD adjust it? I don't think any skimmer was meant to be run without adjustment.

robthorn · 09/06/2009, 01:42 PM

Any skimmer that can't run 4 days is a POS. NO ifs, ands or buts. Whats the point of having to adjust a skimmer everyday or couple days? Not saying the vertex needs it or is a POS I am just stating the fact of any skimmer. Extremely poor design or setup would be the only reason a skimmer would need frequent adjustments. Changes in water depth or something. I believe most of the guys buying high end skimmers are doing so believing they are getting a set and forget piece of equipment. After break in and of course not cleaning and routine maintenance. I have easily gone 4-6 months between adjustments on many skimmers I have owned in the past. Yes it performed well the whole time.
Not to be too rude but it's something I like to say when someone says they think something is stop thinking. I even say this to myself from time to time.
I was 886 miles away over those days so I was unable to do anything. I had a good sitter for the tank but he did so much for me I wouldn't burden him with adjusting the skimmer. PLus I set them both approximately the same and wanted to see what happened. Of course the skimmers are different sizes and designs but I did what I could and thought was right.

bigtex52 · 09/06/2009, 04:10 PM

Not to sound argumentative, but if your Bubble Magus is such a fantastic, stable skimmer , why did you bother to buy the Vertex? Just curious.

HeneryH · 09/06/2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by robthorn Any skimmer that can't run 4 days is a POS. NO ifs, ands or buts. Whats the point of having to adjust a skimmer everyday or couple days? Not saying the vertex needs it or is a POS I am just stating the fact of any skimmer. Extremely poor design or setup would be the only reason a skimmer would need frequent adjustments.

You didn't say this in your post. You said that you made no adjustments. Period. Now you are saying that you tuned it in then you never got a drop of skimmate? Sound like you didn't tune it well. Maybe you should clarify what you did.

Quote:

Originally posted by robthorn Not to be too rude but it's something I like to say when someone says they think something is stop thinking.

I'm being blunt. When someone says they are not trying to be rude, they usually are. Screw you.

robthorn · 09/06/2009, 07:07 PM

Ha well said for someone that didn't read the thread. If you read the thread you would have known all that this skimmer has been through. Again if you read the thread you would think it obvious that I meant I let it run for 4 days without adjustment. It has been in and out of water for going on 2 months.
Does anyone know if Screw you is a personal attack?

And Actually I wasn't trying to be rude. Somewhat sarcastic but not really rude. Take it as you like though hope I didn't ruin your evening.

HeneryH · 09/06/2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by robthorn
And Actually I wasn't trying to be rude.

Then it comes natural to you.

DarG · 09/06/2009, 07:18 PM

I havent adjusted my 200 since week 3 or so which is when I figure it was broken in well. I also dont have any water leaking out the air-line hole. Again, I dont see it being an issue with performance at all. But I'll withold further comment as I dont own the 170.

Rob ... you acknowleged that owners of the 200 had working skimmers by your statement ... "glad all your 200's are working". Then you state that it "just must be my luck", stating that yours isnt working. I also read where Jeremy mentioned that you were reporting 400 - 600 LPH LESS air from your skimmer pump than was typical. He made the offer of having you send the skimmer back to be looked at/tested while he sent a KNOWN working 200 back to you to try.
You refused the offer. So, not to be rude but, what is your point in continually bashing the 200 in general when you very well may be having a pump problem with your particular 200? Again, a problem that you refused a reasonable, potential remedy to when offered by Jeremy.

I can understand the 170 owners frustration as they have to be patient waiting on a know issue to be resolved. But again, you refused a reasonable offer to test a know good 200 while Jeremy checked yours out.

bigtex52 · 09/06/2009, 07:20 PM

Let's keep it civil, guys. I think robthorn is very frustrated at paying a bunch for a skimmer that he can't make work, but robthorn, your negativity, anger and bitterness is getting pretty old. Obviously, most of the rest of us aren't having the problems you are, but Jeremy offered to ship you another 200 and you ship your 200 back. You turned that down, so I have to wonder what is it you really want?

subman719 · 09/06/2009, 07:23 PM

I think anyone who was thinking of getting a Vertex won't after reading this thread... They'd be afraid of getting a black eye with the skimmer! Who would've thought a skimmer could cause a knock down, drag out fight!

bigtex52 · 09/06/2009, 07:26 PM

I hope not. They are good skimmers, but you only see the drama about the ones that don't work quite right, and not much about the vast majority that do.

crab0000 · 09/06/2009, 08:03 PM

My 170 doesn't have the surging problem or the water leaking out of the hole the airline goes through. It is very sensitive to minute changes, but it skims like a monster, so I can deal with it. Overall I'm very happy!

subman719 · 09/06/2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crab0000
My 170 doesn't have the surging problem or the water leaking out of the hole the airline goes through. It is very sensitive to minute changes, but it skims like a monster, so I can deal with it. Overall I'm very happy!

Thanks! You are a glimmer of hope! I REALLY want to be VERY happy with this skimmer! It's my 4th skimmer in 2 years and I wouldn't even know where to turn for a good skimmer after this!

robthorn · 09/06/2009, 08:18 PM

I have no anger. You can make my voice any way you want that is up to you. I'm not even a little upset with the little henery or BIGtex. Sharing ones experience isn't negativity. You only think it is because it's not your personal experience.
Why should I pay to ship skimmers back and forth because of warranty issues? Seems to me I shouldn;t have too. Once maybe. Too ship mine back and pay for it and then ship jeremy's back to him and maybe even mine or a new one back to me doesn't make sense. Jeremy did send me a label to ship mine back but it's coming out of my refund. I am greatful he agreed to do it for me to save me some money.
Forums are so people can discuss issues whether good or bad. You can't get ****ed because someone has a different experience than you do. If you do then maybe a grow up is in order.

09/05/2009, 09:11 PM	#1
JohnL RC Staff Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 14,431	Royal-Exclusiv / Vertex Cone Skimmer Club This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5#post15656095

09/05/2009, 09:11 PM	#2
Gen21 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Mexico City Posts: 114	And a very very terrible/horrible video... =P it was taken with a poor camera cellphone!! hehe __________________ Marine Aquatics Technology Visit my red house.. 185gal reef tank / 40gal sump / Aquatronica controller / Aqualogic chiller / Sequence DART pump / and more coming.. Current Tank Info: 225gal system / 185gal reef tank / 40gal sump / Aquatronica controller / Aqualogic chiller / Sequence DART pump / and more coming..

09/06/2009, 01:35 AM	#5
Dave's Reef Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,156	Woo Hoo, hooray for the split! Alpha you are the King of skimmers!!!!! __________________ To all you clubbers around the nation, kick up the flow don't want no stagnation! Current Tank Info: 150G Starphire Zeovit Reef 48x30x24

09/06/2009, 05:25 AM	#6
subman719 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 353	Do the SPLIT dance!!! Ok, on to real business: I REALLY like the fact that they put the mufflers on the 300 external to the wedge pipe, NOT on top of the wedge pipe with the air tube running through it! I TRUELY believe that having that hole for the air tube in the side of the wedgepipe on the 170's will cause performance issues due to inconsistent backpressure. I think that should be part of a "repair" kit or as they call it in the rest of the market "recall" kit. I think the kit should include the following: New impeller, new wedge pipe "without" the hole in the side, a bracket to mount the muffler "externally" to the side of the wedge pipe, a new nozzle of properly tuned length I truely think these items will be necessary to correct all the issues of this cone skimmer and "upgrade" it to the properly functioning status of a "Bubble King"! As I've mentioned before, these are supposed to be the BEST skimmers on the market and definately are the most EXPENSIVE skimmers on the market! I would just like to see them maintain their status as being THE BEST! As far as my 170 goes, I seem to be getting good foam but it is very sensitive to adjustment. I either get dry skim or it vomits over! I'm going to pull out my nose cone from 1mm to 2mm out and see what happens. __________________ Bob "Fish are Friends, NOT Food!" - Finding Nemo Current Tank Info: 90 Gal - Mixed Reef, 75 gal and 40 gal holding tanks. 20 gal mini reef and several fish only PICO tanks.

09/06/2009, 07:29 AM	#8
subman719 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 353	I too like the "sleek" design however, the purpose of the wedge is to restrict flow and raise the water level. If there is leakage, it would allow the water level to go back down. The only way it would stay balanced is if the airline had no movement whatsoever with no variable leakage. As long as everything stays the same, it should be fine. I hope they don't intend on rasing the price of these because since they "cut corners" they should keep the price cut as well. These could remain "cost effective entry level" models to the normal bubble king line. Sorry, I'm a prefectionist! __________________ Bob "Fish are Friends, NOT Food!" - Finding Nemo Current Tank Info: 90 Gal - Mixed Reef, 75 gal and 40 gal holding tanks. 20 gal mini reef and several fish only PICO tanks.

09/05/2009, 09:28 PM	#3
bigtex52 Old Salt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Carrollton, TX (just N of Dallas) Posts: 436	WOOHOO! Thread split!

09/06/2009, 12:52 AM	#4
143gadgets Moved On Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,151	AWESOME!!!! Gotta LOVE Alphas.

09/06/2009, 07:44 AM	#9
Husky_1 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: South FL Posts: 1,541	Great thoughts subman, Lets see what happens with the new impeller that is being sent over. I also agree on a way to hang the muffler, I see water coming out of mine too and the pulling down on the tube just does not seem to do the work. __________________ Out of the hobby, but thinking of rejoining Current Tank Info: 92 Reef, 10 Reef

09/06/2009, 12:08 PM	#11
robthorn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: largo florida Posts: 5,089	King of skimmers? A bubble magus 100 just ran next to my 200 for 4 days straight with no adjustment to either. The bubble magus has 1 inch of fairly light skimmate. The vertex 200? absolutely nothing. Maybe a couple drops but thats it. Glad all of your 200's are working. Must just be my luck. I figured the neck would be full of gunk at least but it has surpringly little on it. Glad when tuesday comes so I can ship it back.

09/06/2009, 12:16 PM	#12
subman719 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 353	I'm starting to think that instead of re-inventing the wheel, they should have just kept the standard Bubble King designs and just tried cone bodies on them but keep everything else the same. That may have worked better! __________________ Bob "Fish are Friends, NOT Food!" - Finding Nemo Current Tank Info: 90 Gal - Mixed Reef, 75 gal and 40 gal holding tanks. 20 gal mini reef and several fish only PICO tanks.

09/06/2009, 01:42 PM	#14
robthorn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: largo florida Posts: 5,089	Any skimmer that can't run 4 days is a POS. NO ifs, ands or buts. Whats the point of having to adjust a skimmer everyday or couple days? Not saying the vertex needs it or is a POS I am just stating the fact of any skimmer. Extremely poor design or setup would be the only reason a skimmer would need frequent adjustments. Changes in water depth or something. I believe most of the guys buying high end skimmers are doing so believing they are getting a set and forget piece of equipment. After break in and of course not cleaning and routine maintenance. I have easily gone 4-6 months between adjustments on many skimmers I have owned in the past. Yes it performed well the whole time. Not to be too rude but it's something I like to say when someone says they think something is stop thinking. I even say this to myself from time to time. I was 886 miles away over those days so I was unable to do anything. I had a good sitter for the tank but he did so much for me I wouldn't burden him with adjusting the skimmer. PLus I set them both approximately the same and wanted to see what happened. Of course the skimmers are different sizes and designs but I did what I could and thought was right. Last edited by robthorn; 09/06/2009 at 01:53 PM.

09/06/2009, 04:10 PM	#15
bigtex52 Old Salt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Carrollton, TX (just N of Dallas) Posts: 436	Not to sound argumentative, but if your Bubble Magus is such a fantastic, stable skimmer , why did you bother to buy the Vertex? Just curious.

09/06/2009, 07:07 PM	#17
robthorn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: largo florida Posts: 5,089	Ha well said for someone that didn't read the thread. If you read the thread you would have known all that this skimmer has been through. Again if you read the thread you would think it obvious that I meant I let it run for 4 days without adjustment. It has been in and out of water for going on 2 months. Does anyone know if Screw you is a personal attack? And Actually I wasn't trying to be rude. Somewhat sarcastic but not really rude. Take it as you like though hope I didn't ruin your evening.

09/06/2009, 07:18 PM	#19
DarG Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,515	I havent adjusted my 200 since week 3 or so which is when I figure it was broken in well. I also dont have any water leaking out the air-line hole. Again, I dont see it being an issue with performance at all. But I'll withold further comment as I dont own the 170. Rob ... you acknowleged that owners of the 200 had working skimmers by your statement ... "glad all your 200's are working". Then you state that it "just must be my luck", stating that yours isnt working. I also read where Jeremy mentioned that you were reporting 400 - 600 LPH LESS air from your skimmer pump than was typical. He made the offer of having you send the skimmer back to be looked at/tested while he sent a KNOWN working 200 back to you to try. You refused the offer. So, not to be rude but, what is your point in continually bashing the 200 in general when you very well may be having a pump problem with your particular 200? Again, a problem that you refused a reasonable, potential remedy to when offered by Jeremy. I can understand the 170 owners frustration as they have to be patient waiting on a know issue to be resolved. But again, you refused a reasonable offer to test a know good 200 while Jeremy checked yours out.

09/06/2009, 07:20 PM	#20
bigtex52 Old Salt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Carrollton, TX (just N of Dallas) Posts: 436	Let's keep it civil, guys. I think robthorn is very frustrated at paying a bunch for a skimmer that he can't make work, but robthorn, your negativity, anger and bitterness is getting pretty old. Obviously, most of the rest of us aren't having the problems you are, but Jeremy offered to ship you another 200 and you ship your 200 back. You turned that down, so I have to wonder what is it you really want?

09/06/2009, 07:23 PM	#21
subman719 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 353	I think anyone who was thinking of getting a Vertex won't after reading this thread... They'd be afraid of getting a black eye with the skimmer! Who would've thought a skimmer could cause a knock down, drag out fight! __________________ Bob "Fish are Friends, NOT Food!" - Finding Nemo Current Tank Info: 90 Gal - Mixed Reef, 75 gal and 40 gal holding tanks. 20 gal mini reef and several fish only PICO tanks.

09/06/2009, 07:26 PM	#22
bigtex52 Old Salt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Carrollton, TX (just N of Dallas) Posts: 436	I hope not. They are good skimmers, but you only see the drama about the ones that don't work quite right, and not much about the vast majority that do.

09/06/2009, 08:03 PM	#23
crab0000 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Jasper,GA Posts: 2,801	My 170 doesn't have the surging problem or the water leaking out of the hole the airline goes through. It is very sensitive to minute changes, but it skims like a monster, so I can deal with it. Overall I'm very happy!

09/06/2009, 08:18 PM	#25
robthorn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: largo florida Posts: 5,089	I have no anger. You can make my voice any way you want that is up to you. I'm not even a little upset with the little henery or BIGtex. Sharing ones experience isn't negativity. You only think it is because it's not your personal experience. Why should I pay to ship skimmers back and forth because of warranty issues? Seems to me I shouldn;t have too. Once maybe. Too ship mine back and pay for it and then ship jeremy's back to him and maybe even mine or a new one back to me doesn't make sense. Jeremy did send me a label to ship mine back but it's coming out of my refund. I am greatful he agreed to do it for me to save me some money. Forums are so people can discuss issues whether good or bad. You can't get ****ed because someone has a different experience than you do. If you do then maybe a grow up is in order.