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Unread 01/15/2013, 08:58 AM   #51
ganjero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyEyes View Post
Hey man, I'm glad to hear yourself, wife and 2 dogs are doing better. Thank you for posting your experiences. I've known about palytoxin for some time but I would have never guessed it could happen from boiling rocks. Thanks again.
It has happened before from cleaning rock/equipment with hot water, as well as boiling rocks.

IIRC there is no antidote for palytoxin;all the hospital can do is to give you supportive care.


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Unread 01/15/2013, 09:07 AM   #52
blackthunda77
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*Disclaimer* Im not trying to be a smart a$$. Sincerely asking.

Why would someone boil live rock? I know when i was a newb and i heard people say "cooking live rock" i thought the same thing (actually baking it or boiling it) but then obviously learned later it was a totally different process of just letting live rock sit in a tub with saltwater and complete darkness and possibly a skimmer to let everything die off over the course of a month or two. Did you mistake the phrase "cooking" or did you intentionally decide to go the boiling route instead of the traditional "cooking" route?


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Unread 01/15/2013, 10:39 AM   #53
kenghmoob
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WOW, I'm glad everyone is doing better. Never really knew about palytoxins because I never really kept Zoa's but this is definately good to know since I've added a few frags in my tank to color up the bottom. Thanks for the post


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Unread 01/15/2013, 02:35 PM   #54
gig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superrmario View Post
Our cat seemed perfectly fine and not effected.
this proves one thing, cats are the devil

glad to hear you are ok


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Unread 01/15/2013, 07:33 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleggett321 View Post
Just a comment on the muriatic acid mentioned in earlier posts. If anyone were to consider it, Make sure you use it OUTSIDE!! With nitrile gloves and eye protection. It is highly effective for organics on the rocks and phosphates in the rock but extremely caustic and dangerous without proper precautions.
To add to that, simple respiratory protection doesn't hurt either while working with the stuff.

At the very least, try to stand up wind of it while pouring. It is not fun to breath in the fumes.


That stuff is probably the reason I still hate doing pool maintenance to this day...


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Unread 01/20/2013, 07:52 PM   #56
superrmario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthunda77 View Post
*Disclaimer* Im not trying to be a smart a$$. Sincerely asking.

Why would someone boil live rock? I know when i was a newb and i heard people say "cooking live rock" i thought the same thing (actually baking it or boiling it) but then obviously learned later it was a totally different process of just letting live rock sit in a tub with saltwater and complete darkness and possibly a skimmer to let everything die off over the course of a month or two. Did you mistake the phrase "cooking" or did you intentionally decide to go the boiling route instead of the traditional "cooking" route?
No offence taken..

I didnt mistake cooking with boiling.

I boiled the rocks to kill off everything completely and totaly. I dont have a place to dry them out fresh out of the display tank since I live in a Apartment. I wanted to kill of the bacteria and such so I could allow them to dry on my counter without the rotting smell of live rock dying off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenghmoob View Post
WOW, I'm glad everyone is doing better. Never really knew about palytoxins because I never really kept Zoa's but this is definately good to know since I've added a few frags in my tank to color up the bottom. Thanks for the post
Your welcome. It was button polyps that got us. I found a previous picture of my tank with the rocks still in it. I zoomed in and I saw the largest rock had a few polyps on it that I must have missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gig View Post
this proves one thing, cats are the devil

glad to hear you are ok
LOL.


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Unread 01/20/2013, 08:48 PM   #57
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glad to read you're all recovering-just fyi, your story was recently the subject of discussion on coral-list, heh.


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Unread 01/21/2013, 10:30 AM   #58
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This is why I wear gloves when I mess around in my tank! I don't handle anything without gloves. I'm allergic and carry an epi-pen for sever reaction.


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Unread 01/21/2013, 10:57 AM   #59
biecacka
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Acid wash your rocks if need be.
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Unread 01/21/2013, 10:58 AM   #60
superrmario
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Originally Posted by vitz View Post
glad to read you're all recovering-just fyi, your story was recently the subject of discussion on coral-list, heh.
Could you provide me with the link to the discussion?


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Unread 01/21/2013, 12:05 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by superrmario View Post
Could you provide me with the link to the discussion?
i don't save the emails after i read them-there are simply too many. you can go to noaa's website and sign up to get subscribed to the coral-list though-it's basically an email server for coral scientists (and anyone who's interested)to discuss all things coral/reef/ocean related stuffs, and it's amazingly informative on a wide variety of subjects (though most of the discussions focus on climate change as it pertains to oceans/reefs).perhaps someone will post again on the subject in the (hopefully near) future.

sorry


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Unread 01/21/2013, 02:23 PM   #62
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Scary story, noting never to do that. Glad everyone's alright.


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Unread 01/21/2013, 08:06 PM   #63
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I am glad your OK but I am wondering if an epi-pen or an OTC medicine such as Benadryl can help with a reaction to palytoxin?


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Unread 01/21/2013, 08:20 PM   #64
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Good on you for posting this. Glad you are doing better.


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Unread 01/22/2013, 07:35 AM   #65
mtcoins123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricShane View Post
Try boiling them..

Nah, lol im jk. Glad your okay
This i think all started due to someone coinning the phrase "Cooking your rock" i think this should serve as a reminder that fancy names and terms and a bad idea and people should say and do what is correct and known to work. i remember reading a thread where a new person was confused as to how to "cook" their rock and was asking if there was a microwave method....... we are at times only as smart as the last article or document we read be careful what you write.


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Unread 01/22/2013, 07:59 AM   #66
signal_4
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You know after look at your pics I think I have the same Palays... what I have done is that when I want to clear some off I just use a regular strong bristled tooth brush and scrub them off the rock.... I dont take the rock out of the tank.... just stick my arm in there and start scrubbing....I have done this several times with no ill effect.


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Unread 01/22/2013, 08:57 AM   #67
vitz
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Originally Posted by signal_4 View Post
You know after look at your pics I think I have the same Palays... what I have done is that when I want to clear some off I just use a regular strong bristled tooth brush and scrub them off the rock.... I dont take the rock out of the tank.... just stick my arm in there and start scrubbing....I have done this several times with no ill effect.
you should stop doing that yesterday-the toxin that is released into the water column can still deposit on your skin, and it takes a miniscule amount to kill. a stray water droplet that sprays onto your lip from the tank by accident is all it can take.

you're playing with fire of a sort for which you don't have an extinguisher.


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Unread 01/22/2013, 10:08 AM   #68
auem
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i would like to know how this toxin breaks....because even in the tank a palythoa can get rubbed by moving invertebrate or fish..even moving rocks can cause friction....so i wonder at what condition this toxin release under normal temperature......


@superrrmario,
i 'saved' my excess rock by putting them in the rooftop...ample sun..then bleaching....but i guess you don't have the luxury....glad you are safe and sound...


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Unread 01/22/2013, 11:06 AM   #69
superrmario
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Originally Posted by signal_4 View Post
You know after look at your pics I think I have the same Palays... what I have done is that when I want to clear some off I just use a regular strong bristled tooth brush and scrub them off the rock.... I dont take the rock out of the tank.... just stick my arm in there and start scrubbing....I have done this several times with no ill effect.
Please do not do that.

I received a private message from someone who has investigated Palytoxin poisoning. He also shared a documented story of someone almost punching out due to exactly what you were doing.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog...oxin-poisoning

I am in the process of building up the manadated 10 posts so I can reply to the two people who PM'ed me. If you see this, I will have a reply out to you soon!


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Unread 01/22/2013, 11:23 AM   #70
superrmario
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Originally Posted by auem View Post
@superrrmario,
i 'saved' my excess rock by putting them in the rooftop...ample sun..then bleaching....but i guess you don't have the luxury....glad you are safe and sound...
Thanks

I wish I knew of a place a bit better suited for drying out rock. I guess they are going to go out on my small porch the next time I remove rock.


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Unread 01/22/2013, 12:25 PM   #71
tektite
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Please keep in mind everyone that dried out palys are still extremely dangerous


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Unread 01/22/2013, 12:38 PM   #72
signal_4
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Ok point very well taken !!...but Im using a tooth brush not my finger nail.... also if the toxin is being released into the water why is it not killing off the live stock ? Not doubting yall....just curious ....


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Unread 01/22/2013, 02:05 PM   #73
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if one even suspects there *might* be a paly in one's tank, gloves are a prerequisite, as well as a thorough hand washing after being in the tank.

those two things should be part of s.o.p. regardless, imo-it will also save one from gettin nailed by bristleworms, coral stings, etc etc




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Unread 01/22/2013, 02:20 PM   #74
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I've got a whole rock of those damn things, and go into my tank gloveless all the time.

Jesus.


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Unread 01/22/2013, 04:27 PM   #75
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I have lots also had them for many years, they came in on live rock. Difficult to see on liverock thats been in he dark for a few months but they survive somehow. On the odd day you are working on your reef for long periods of time you have to be careful. Wear gloves.
How easythe toxin is released i don't know. I do know if they are stressed by handling they seem to empty there stomachs and you get a stringy substance coming from them.


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