Oyster Reef Ecosystem Tank

[Michael Hoaster]

That's got to be an awesome feeling, having everything in your tank collected by you! Keep those pics coming!

[Chasmodes]

Yes, it's fun, plus, not knowing what you'll catch makes it quite the surprise when you collect something cool that will "fit" in the tank. I hope to get out collecting this weekend, even if for only more macros, grass and pods.

So, I went back to your thread Michael, and revived an old post about your substrate:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

I should talk a little more about the substrate. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you'll see a lot of discussion about it. I was very focused on providing the best substrate conditions for the seagrass. Now I'm thinking more about the whole mini-ecosystem, or microcosm. You've got to start at the bottom of the food web, to support everything-including the grasses.

Different grain sizes support different levels of oxygen, which support different types of bacteria, etc. I want a variety of microfauna and flora, all the way up to zooplankton, for biodiversity in the (substrate) food web. I'm hoping the course stuff and shells will provide an in-tank refuge for benthic plankton, helping to maintain their numbers, even with predation.

Some might be surprised at my inclusion of silica sand. Remember, I hope to keep some sponges and sea squirts. They like silica.

Also, I'm hoping the aged ecocomplete will kind of act like compost, for the seagrasses. Speaking of which, I ended up ordering three different seagrasses; Shoal Grass, Manatee Grass and Turtle Grass. It will be interesting to see which will enjoy the conditions in my tank!

So, my question to you is, would you do anything different now that you've been doing this a while? I'm trying to plan ahead for the larger tank set up.

For those that haven't seen Michael's thread, here is the page where this post resides (post 157): http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...2391470&page=7

[Michael Hoaster]

Good question! As for grain sizes, I'm still happy with super-fine oolite on the bottom with coarser stuff on top. I have watched pods enjoy the refuge of the coarse substrate, while worms enjoy getting down into the fine stuff. I also recommend acquiring live sand from different sources, for biodiversity. If you plan to plant seagrasses or any other higher plants, I would recommend some kind of dirt in there, with maybe an inch of sand covering it. These plants get a lot of their nutrients from the soil, using their roots. Ideally, it would be the mud the plants were growing in. I'm not sure you can collect them that way though. Otherwise, potting soil, garden soil or good old yard dirt should work. Also, Florida Pets has some live mud that is the real deal.

If you aren't attempting higher plants, you don't need soil. If you are, you may want to soak the soil for a couple months in water with the same salinity as your tank. This will give the soil time to settle in with being water logged.

Hope this helps! Bottom line, I wish I had added more dirt than I did, for the grasses.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Michael. I was going to bring some mud home last trip, but what we found really stunk a lot and I was worried about adding toxic hydrogen sulfide to the tank. I may go the commercial route instead. However, I'm on the fence about it because I'd really like to keep it local flora and fauna.

Here's another video of my fish feeding on the grass shrimp that they killed below. Notice the Ulva attached to one of the oyster shells. The camera seems to pick up plenty of other "life" that I didn't notice before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKB2orGAaBM

[Michael Hoaster]

It's a daunting task, making a commitment to adding mud. As I said, ideally you're scooping up whatever the grass is growing in with it, so that may not be the really nasty stuff.

I restarted our three gallon betta vase yesterday for my wife. We hope to grow some plants in it, so I grabbed a pot of dirt that has been sitting at the bottom of my outdoor garden pond for a couple years, to give the plants a rich rooting place. The dirt is mostly hidden by a coarse, shelly substrate, in the vase, but I did notice some kind of wormy things at the soil surface. The betta is actively hunting them now. So having mud is not just for plants. It is also the best way to start up the base of the food chain.

That video is amazing! If you couldn't see the edge of the tank, you'd think it was filmed in nature! So cool. It's wild to see nature's violence on such a small scale. Well done!

[Chasmodes]

Thanks for the tips Michael, and the complement! Never a dull moment in that tank! Ironically, I thought that I needed a fish for the upper parts of the water column, but the benthic fish provide plenty of action. They're always moving around the structure, browsing for food, claiming space, asserting their place in the pecking order, or just plain curious of the other creatures.

Last night I took a few more pics focusing on the "other life" that is appearing.

This colony of hydroids (I think) is growing on the right side glass back in the corner of the tank. It started out as a small star shape and is now about an inch across. There was another one early on that I scraped off of the back of the tank, not knowing what it was, then this one appeared:


Shot of the corner of the tank:


There are hydroids growing all over this widgeon grass, and a pretty long flowing colony shown by the arrow, with a naked goby photobombing my effort:


The fish perch all over this grass and don't seem bothered at all by the hydroids. The blennies seem to pick at them when they're browsing for food. I don't think hydroids are their favorite food, but they sometimes spit them out and sometimes ingest them.

This blenny was photobombing my attempt to capture a good shot of the long flowing hydroid. The picture of him looked too cool not to post


I don't know that this is. I doubt they're hydroids because I don't see tentacles or polyps. Maybe bryozoans or macroalgae? Anyone know? They're popping up on some of the oyster shells that I recently introduced.

[Chasmodes]

Oh, and for those who like the old "eye spy" type of stuff, there's a skilletfish in the third photo. Can anyone spot him?

[Chasmodes]

I took a couple interesting videos. Hope you like them.

Feeding frenzy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZpPS9iG2dQ

Skilletfish Antics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASgWBiNHzb4

[Michael Hoaster]

Great vids! You've got a good number of fish in there now. How many of each? That's so cool they eat right out your hand. It's hard to believe they are so bold, so newly introduced to captivity!

Another thing I like about your fish is that you are showing us all that even local, muted color fish are just as interesting to watch as any gaudy, exotic reef species!

Any progress on the big tank? It's going to be amazing!

[Chasmodes]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Great vids! You've got a good number of fish in there now. How many of each? That's so cool they eat right out your hand. It's hard to believe they are so bold, so newly introduced to captivity!

Another thing I like about your fish is that you are showing us all that even local, muted color fish are just as interesting to watch as any gaudy, exotic reef species!

Any progress on the big tank? It's going to be amazing!

That is my "other" tank, which will be my holding/QT tank for my collections in the future. It's a 20g tank with 13 blennies, 12 naked gobies, 10 skilletfish, about a half dozen grass shrimp, and I think at least 2 mud crabs that I never see. All of the inverts came in as hitchhikers on the oyster shells. My intent wasn't to keep these fish as I promised them to someone else, but as it turns out, this tank is very interesting to watch, and I've learned a lot about how these species get along together. It's a tight space in a 20g high for all of these fish. But, although there has been a pecking order within each species established, and somewhat between them, they all get along much better than I'd anticipated. Once I set up the big tank, it will be interesting to see how things play out, especially if they start spawning.

Another interesting thing is that my tank parameters are pretty good with zero ammonia, slight amount of nitrite, although nitrate is a little high at 100 ppm. Maybe I'll toss some Ulva in there. What surprises me with this tank is that even with the large bioload and heavy feeding, that the parameters are not off the charts. I started out doing water changes every two days, then every 3 days and now once a week, and maybe longer in between in the near future.

My 20g long tank has the oyster cultches and smaller fish in it is doing well. Ammonia and nitrite are zero, nitrate is 80 ppm. Once the big tank is set up, this tank will become a stickleback tank. I think the 20g high will remain a collecting holding/QT type of thing. I have four 55 gallon tanks in my shed that I may bring back to the house and set up.

OK, when on the big tank? Good question. I need to invest in a miter or table saw so that I can finish my stand. The guy that was going to help me informed me that he couldn't do it because he doesn't have time, so I really need to take the DIY approach. It's a money issue again, but maybe sooner rather than later. These two tanks really have me psyched to get the big tank up and running.

[Chasmodes]

And yeah, as far as fish color goes, I agree. I am interested in fish personalities and habits more so than bright colors. That said, the male blennies color up quite a bit with orange hued fins, orange cheeks and bellies, a yellow streak along the dorsal, and a bright blue spot on the dorsal fin. Maybe someday I'll experience those changes, but right now, all I see is a little orange around the operculum and tints on the fins of the males.

If I'm someday lucky to get some tropical strays, a spotfin butterflyfish might brighten the tank a little bit! Also, there is a chance that I can catch a couple goby species that are pretty colorful, but not very common in the Bay. We shall see!

[Blizzard 123]

Wow I find this very interesting. Cool seeing fish you caught your self must be neat. What about parasites on the fish and things you bring in? Aren't you a little concerned of these. I once collected a few snails that were at beach near where I am but nothing to this scale very cool.


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[Chasmodes]

Thanks Blizzard. I'm not really worried about parasites. The fish have all been really healthy so far, and I look them over pretty good while collecting them in a photo tank on site.

I set up a holding tank to observe them in so I don't add obvious infected fish to the tank. After a week or so, if they're doing well, then I'll transfer them into the main tank. If I need to treat any fish for parasites, then I can always set up my 10g for that. So far, I haven't had the need. I think that some of the grass shrimp have parasitic isopods on them, but they don't prey on fish, and they don't seem to impact the health or behavior of the shrimp. I far larger threat to the shrimp are the fish, that have killed and fed on a couple of them. So far, they ignore the shrimp or just chase them away from their perch. The shrimp that they killed happened when they started their own feeding frenzy. The larger blenny just attacked a shrimp out of nowhere and chaos ensued. I really don't mind that happening, because there is an endless supply of them if they constantly become a food item.

If the main tank ever has a fish kill due to parasites, then remove the fish and treat them in QT and run the main tank fallow for a while until they die off, then I'll collect for it again.

Here's a blenny pic for today. This is the largest striped blenny in the 20g long tank. It's grown almost a half inch in the last month and is almost 2" long now:

[Blizzard 123]

Ok just wondering what you do about the parasites. Very cool that the fish attack shrimp and replicates the wild very cool. The tank we have once did the same thing you are doing except with fish from the sound. We caught fish on our local beaches and put them in the tank mimicking the outdoor environment. It was good until a crab got in and killed all the fish.


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[Chasmodes]

I've got quite a few changes. First, in the 20g long, I added some red algae and it looks great. Also, the widgeon grass that I put in last time didn't root, so I tossed it. I brought some more home that had some roots and planted it, so we will see. I meant to bring home some substrate but didn't do that. I caught 7 more blennies, kept the three smallest and added them to the tank. I also added more oyster shells to create more hiding places for the additional blennies. I also added more grass shrimp.

Here is one of the blennies that I brought home:


Here's a FTS of the 20g long:


The red macro and the new widgeon grass:


In the 20g high, I gave away all of the fish. I did, however, bring home the biggest skilletfish that we've caught yet and added it to this tank. It is currently the only fish in the tank, hanging out with a bunch more grass shrimp and three hitchhiker crabs. I also added a big bunch of the red macro and a bunch of Ulva.

This is the jumbo skilletfish in my photo tank that I brought home and put in the 20g:


Here's a really good view of the specialized fins that the skilletfish (and clingfish) have that allows them to use suction to grip oyster shells, glass, and even fingers


Here's a current look of the 20g high:

[Chasmodes]

Juvenile striped blenny, Chasmodes bosquianus:

[Chasmodes]

I have a couple updates, one that I meant to say something about last week, as well as something new. I'll start with the new tidbit. A new colony of bryozoans like the snowflake shaped ones that are growing on the right side glass appeared on the left side, almost in the same location. It appears that they prefer the darker areas of the tank. Either that, or I keep scraping them off when I clean the front glass.

The event that happened last week freaked me out, but I guess that I shouldn't have been all that surprised. Striped blennies are pretty fearless and tough characters in the tank. Even the smallest ones are brave and chase away both the gobies and the skilletfish (although both of the other species will chase them off too at times). But, I never expected this to happen:


It occurred in the 20g high tank. Yep, I lost a juvenile blenny due to skilletfish predation. This medium sized skilletfish ate my blenny!!!! I saw it happen. It wasn't a scavenging event. I couldn't believe it. All of these fish had full bellies. I mentioned last week that I gave all of the fish away from that tank, but this one little blenny was going to move to my 20g long tank. All he had to do was make it one more day.

Anyway, that is something to keep in mind when keeping skilletfish or similar clingfish. They have large mouths, and, although most of what you read about them says that they eat worms, amphipods, small crustaceans, etc., they will also eat fish, even small more aggressive ones.

[Chasmodes]

Oh yeah, I forgot, there was more to the story. I actually trapped the skilletfish with the blenny in his mouth against the glass with my hand, so I could see if the blenny was still alive or not. The gills had already stopped moving by that time. I was going to try and free the blenny. But, since it was gone, I just let him eat it. This pic was taken after I released the skilletfish from being pinned against the glass. About 4 hours later, the blenny couldn't be seen and the skilletfish was fatter than fat....

[Michael Hoaster]

More great pics! Mother Nature can be a cruel mistress! Does this change your stocking list?

[Chasmodes]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

More great pics! Mother Nature can be a cruel mistress! Does this change your stocking list?

Yes, it can be cruel. But nope, I'll maintain what I have and move on. I think that the larger blennies are OK with the skilletfish. That blenny was pretty tiny and was an easy snack. I just have to make sure that if I bring home more blennies in the future, that they're in the same size range as what I currently have on average.

Sorry about not responding sooner. We were on vacation to Myrtle Beach. I didn't do any fish collecting (although I brought my stuff) because of a lack of free time to dedicate to that. We did quite a bit of fossil shark tooth collecting though with some success. My tanks are fine. I weaned my fish off of frozen food and on to flakes simply because I had nobody to feed my fish while we were away. So, I bought a couple of the flake food automated feeders. My fish all eat flakes now, so that is a good thing. However, I will feed them more live and frozen food now that I'm back and supplement with flakes now and then (just so they recognize them as food). I want them as healthy as possible, but not too spoiled. They're all as fat as can be!

My Ulva died off in one tank, but is doing OK in the other. I think lighting is the issue. That will be fixed once I transfer everything to the big tank where I will have much more powerful lighting. I may have to do something with CO2...not sure yet. We will see.

[Michael Hoaster]

Sounds like a plan. It sounds like you had a nice vacation as well! In my experience, ulva can tolerate a variety of light levels, but really takes off with maximum light and nutrients. And because it is so relished by so many herbivores, it has to outpace consumption as well. I had some right at the water surface, under a 400 watt MH, and it was quite happy.

I'm really looking forward to seeing you get your main tank up and running!

If you hope to get really good plant growth, CO2 is very helpful. It is plants' favorite form of carbon, which is plants' most important nutrient. Seagrass and macros' C-N-P (carbon-nitrogen-phosphate) ratio is around 475-25-1. Lots of folks dose nitrate, but ignore carbon. It seems they want to avoid the expense and complication of a CO2 setup. My suggestion would be to save $400 on a skimmer and spend $100 on a CO2 regulator. Plants can get all the nutrients they need, from fish food and decomposition alone, but not in the ideal ratios. If we are trying to give our plants ideal growing conditions, we should attempt to give them what they want. Of course, the downside is more pruning/exporting, so if you don't want prolific plant growth, CO2 is unnecessary.

[Chasmodes]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

My suggestion would be to save $400 on a skimmer and spend $100 on a CO2 regulator.

Thanks Michael. Which one do you use? Are you happy with it? Recommendations? Where did you get it? Where do you get your tanks?

My wife really wants my tank up and running (well, me too, of course), so she asked me what I needed to get that done, and agreed that we should focus on that. So, that is good. What does that mean? I can spend more money, LOL. Now all I have to do is find the money!

Also, I have a couple live barnacles in the tank that I didn't see before. I found a new bryozoan colony too. All of the fish grew since my vacation started, a lot more than I thought that they would, about a 1/2" each! There are a couple small patches of cyanobacteria and some patches of green hair algae. I expected this though. It's not bad, but I may have to take action if they spread a lot. What is important to me though is that the fish are all happy. I had a couple grass shrimp go carpet surfing. They found the hole where my automatic feeder dumped food into the tank.

[Michael Hoaster]

I can't remember what brand I got and there's no brand logo on it. I originally bought it around 15 years ago for a calcium reactor. I then repurposed it for my fresh water planted tank, running the airline tubing to my canister filter intake. I'm running it the same way on this saltwater planted tank.

I think they're all pretty much the same. I'd start with googling CO2 regulator for aquariums. I bought mine from an online store. I get 5 pound tanks at my local Airgas store. Again, google local CO2 tanks and you shouldn't have any trouble. Lot's of people use them for Kegerators, and restaurants use them for fountain drinks.

They're easy to setup. Just thread the regulator onto the tank, open the main valve on the tank, and adjust the bubble rate with the regulator's fine adjustment knob. I check mine occasionally and adjust if needed. Simple! I run mine 24/7, but lots of people run theirs only when the lights are on-especially with smaller tanks, where CO2 buildup can be dangerous to fish.

For your temporary tanks, I wouldn't worry much about algae, though you might use the time to find effective herbivores before you start the big show. When you are ready to start up the display tank, I'd plant heavily, to give the plants a head start on algae and bacteria, which competes with plants for nutrients. The usual cycling is counterproductive. Plants will do the lion's share of nutrient filtering and bacteria will colonize as usual, doing their bit.

[McPuff]

If you're looking for a nice dual stage regulator, check out CO2art.com. They are based out of UK. Prices are terrific, I really like the quality, and the performance has been great so far. I've been using mine for almost a year. If you go with these, I'd recommend going with the special needle valve...

And just after I typed this I went to their site and it says they are no longer accepting orders. No idea what happened there. They had awesome customer service and great products. Argh!

[Chasmodes]

Thank you very much Michael for the info. I think it will be a good way to go. After adding plant material to my current tanks, I really think it makes the tank more realistic and full of life and color (as opposed to clumps of oysters covered in just hair algae or cyano), so that is the direction that I'd like to go with my bigger tank.

LOL, thanks anyway McPuff. It's a good starting point for some comparison shopping.