DSB in a bucket for nitrate control

[mwood]

Dude, no posts like that so near to lunchtime.

[mwood]

PS, if this price is correct and sand is safe and recommended for this application, this may be the way to go.

lowes / playsand

[Anthony Calfo]

yep... agreed with our Alaskan friend here:

use clean, dry sand and avoid the baggage.

A DSB bucket should literally cost less than $20 to make (most of which is the cost of the bulkhead unless you skip that altogether and let the bucket gurgle/overflow its sides while sitting in a large open sump)

[Lrgclasper]

I still think some light drippage would be much better than just letting the sand soak. I am thinking something on the order of one DSB volume every 3-6 hours or so. Heterotrophic denitrification (anaerobic) is very common in public aquariums and wastewater facilities. They always have a low flow going through the media. Having some flow through the media is critical to insure efficient operation. If you think about it, water towards the bottom of the bucket is not going anywhere (or at a very low flow), just sitting there. Organics will likely sink to the bottom and denitrification will occur, but not at a useful rate. There are many articles published on this (goggle heterotrophic denitrification).

I attached a link to an interesting cotton denitrification filter used in wastewater management. I have another article published in an Elasmobranche Husbandry Journal, if your interested I can get the citation.

http://www.wrc.org.za/downloads/wate...pr-05/1794.pdf

[Dr.Ocean]

Well the water is clear now and the skimmer stopped producing any foam.I have just tested my Nitrates its at 60ppm.Will be testing and posting the results on weekly basis .

[Lrgclasper]

I am thinking of building a denitrate filter using sulfer beads and crushed oyster shells to buffer the effluent. Anyone used sulfer beads before?

[Andys29]

I just turned a 5g bucket into a DSB w/ cheato and a light on it. Check it out on Diary of 30g cube SPS tank thread.

[kenny77]

what kind of sand are you guys using?

[emora]

Any sand will do. Just "clean, dry sand" as Anthony said above.

I have a few bags laying around with fine aragonite sand which I'm going to use

[captbunzo]

Anthony - you mention that this should cost $20 or less. What type of sand are you including in this price? Are we maybe talking something like the Southdown play sand I have heard is sold at Home Depot?

[Lrgclasper]

I would get silica sand from home depot. I have used that stuff for years without any problems. You might mix some argonite in for buffer.

[Cody Ray]

I think I finally figured out what seaclone skimmers are for, lol! You could easily fill one almost to the top of the tub that enters the skimmer body with sand, and I'm sure that the constant swirling of the water would prevent ANYTHING from settling on the surface of the sand. Might need to replace the pump with something smaller, might be a bit too much IMO.

[emora]

ChinChek if the flow is to high through the sand there will not be any anaerobic or anoxic areas and threfore there will be no nitrate reduction.

Anthony is saying to have a slow flow OVER the sand rather than through it.

Although its probably still better than using the seaclone as a
skimmer ;-)

[Cody Ray]

This is what I really ment to get across

The water would enter through the bottom like normal and exit though the top like normal, except there isn't any air being bled into the pump. The key is that when the water exits the top of the tube it is swirling, which would preven ANYTHING from settling on the surface of the sand. However, a much smaller pump would be needed, the maxi-jet 1200 would create a sand storm!

[captbunzo]

Originally posted by ChinChek787
This is what I really ment to get across
The water would enter through the bottom like normal and exit though the top like normal, except there isn't any air being bled into the pump. The key is that when the water exits the top of the tube it is swirling, which would preven ANYTHING from settling on the surface of the sand. However, a much smaller pump would be needed, the maxi-jet 1200 would create a sand storm!

You're missing one REALLY important point - that is that water flowing through your tank, and especially out and throw piping, etc, is LOADING with oxygen. At least it is in comparison to the defintions of anoxic and anerobic.

Rather, the only thing you need is the small amount of water flowing across the top of the sand. With the small water volume and the moderate flow, it will wash all things away wonderfully.

And, btw, I believe what you are describing is called a Fluidized Sand Filter. I believe they are more often and appropriately used in fish stores and larger aquariums.

The REAL experts here - Please correct me if I am wrong...

[Cody Ray]

Hmm, still am not getting the idea across. The water isn't traveling THROUGH the sand. The tube that feeds the skimmer only lets water out from the top. If the sand is poured around that tube (which is inside the skimmer) than the water entering the skimmer goes through the tube, out the top, fills the chamber, and exits the skimmer body. The top layer of sand will be oxygenated, however the skimmer itself is deep enough that most of the sand will be oxygen-poor.

[Cody Ray]

Also, like I said, a smaller pump would be used, and air is NOT added like it would normally be if it were being used as a skimmer.

[emora]

The water isn't traveling THROUGH the sand.

I got it.

The major issue I see is the size. You cant fit much sand in there. You wont get much of a result either. I rather defeats the point of using this method.

Just get a cheap 5 gallon bucket.

[Cody Ray]

I would, however I do not have the room in my stand, it is only 10" wide!

[mwood]

The issue I had when I tried a DSB in a bucket is the sand storm. I used a rio 1100 with a valve to turn the flow down and still ended up with sand everywere. Locked up the return pump and was a PITA to clean up. After that I just yanked it and put in more LR. It's a cool idea, but not worth that risk.

Marcus

[emora]

Originally posted by mwood
The issue I had when I tried a DSB in a bucket is the sand storm. I used a rio 1100 with a valve to turn the flow down and still ended up with sand everywere. Locked up the return pump and was a PITA to clean up. After that I just yanked it and put in more LR. It's a cool idea, but not worth that risk.

Marcus

Way too much flow

[emora]

Originally posted by ChinChek787
I would, however I do not have the room in my stand, it is only 10" wide!

Perhaps you should consider a different solution.

[mwood]

Originally posted by emora
Way too much flow

Rio 1100's are rated at 300 gph. If I had it turned down to 250 or 200, that is too much flow? In a 20 gal tote with 4" of water on top of the sand?

[Anthony Calfo]

I have 1100 gph going through a 20 gall marsh refugium with 3" of sugar fine oolitic sand... and all from a 1" nozzle! Not a grain of sand disturbed, so to speak.

The solution: a $1.49 Aquaclear powerfilter foam block slitted and slipped onto the end of the feed line. The water diffuses gently through a foam block.

Be resourceful my friends.

[mthedude]

I'm thinking if you took a plain old 5g bucket and placed it in the sump you could feed it with raw water from the overflow if you rigged up some sort of drip tray w/prefilter to difuse the water over the surface of the sand more, then just let the water spill over the sides and back into the sump, it wouldn't be devoid of light in my setup as my fuge is next in line w/my sump but I think it would probaby work. Cheapest way to zero nitrates for thos of us who have been plagued w/NO3 since day one.