Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Closed Thread
Thread Tools
Unread 08/10/2005, 11:19 AM   #51
mwood
Premium Member
 
mwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winterset, IA 50273
Posts: 2,299
Dude, no posts like that so near to lunchtime.


mwood is offline  
Unread 08/10/2005, 11:32 AM   #52
mwood
Premium Member
 
mwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winterset, IA 50273
Posts: 2,299
PS, if this price is correct and sand is safe and recommended for this application, this may be the way to go.

lowes / playsand


mwood is offline  
Unread 08/10/2005, 12:09 PM   #53
Anthony Calfo
Registered Member
 
Anthony Calfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,436
yep... agreed with our Alaskan friend here:

use clean, dry sand and avoid the baggage.

A DSB bucket should literally cost less than $20 to make (most of which is the cost of the bulkhead unless you skip that altogether and let the bucket gurgle/overflow its sides while sitting in a large open sump)


__________________
"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

Current Tank Info: 2K gallon fishroom, garden ponds
Anthony Calfo is offline  
Unread 08/10/2005, 01:41 PM   #54
Lrgclasper
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Juneau, Alaska
Posts: 336
I still think some light drippage would be much better than just letting the sand soak. I am thinking something on the order of one DSB volume every 3-6 hours or so. Heterotrophic denitrification (anaerobic) is very common in public aquariums and wastewater facilities. They always have a low flow going through the media. Having some flow through the media is critical to insure efficient operation. If you think about it, water towards the bottom of the bucket is not going anywhere (or at a very low flow), just sitting there. Organics will likely sink to the bottom and denitrification will occur, but not at a useful rate. There are many articles published on this (goggle heterotrophic denitrification).

I attached a link to an interesting cotton denitrification filter used in wastewater management. I have another article published in an Elasmobranche Husbandry Journal, if your interested I can get the citation.

http://www.wrc.org.za/downloads/wate...pr-05/1794.pdf


Lrgclasper is offline  
Unread 08/10/2005, 01:55 PM   #55
Dr.Ocean
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 87
Well the water is clear now and the skimmer stopped producing any foam.I have just tested my Nitrates its at 60ppm.Will be testing and posting the results on weekly basis .


Dr.Ocean is offline  
Unread 08/11/2005, 03:07 PM   #56
Lrgclasper
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Juneau, Alaska
Posts: 336
I am thinking of building a denitrate filter using sulfer beads and crushed oyster shells to buffer the effluent. Anyone used sulfer beads before?


Lrgclasper is offline  
Unread 08/20/2005, 01:56 AM   #57
Andys29
Registered Member.
 
Andys29's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: norman,ok
Posts: 334
I just turned a 5g bucket into a DSB w/ cheato and a light on it. Check it out on Diary of 30g cube SPS tank thread.


Andys29 is offline  
Unread 08/23/2005, 03:16 AM   #58
kenny77
Registered Member
 
kenny77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 2,792
what kind of sand are you guys using?


__________________
"There's plenty of water
in the universe without life,
but nowere is there life
without water" - Sylvia A. Farle, Project Director
Sustainable Seas Expedition


Kenny

Current Tank Info: 24g nano. 60 cube in progress
kenny77 is offline  
Unread 08/23/2005, 03:32 AM   #59
emora
Registered Member
 
emora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madrid, Spain (originally from Seattle, WA)
Posts: 161
Any sand will do. Just "clean, dry sand" as Anthony said above.

I have a few bags laying around with fine aragonite sand which I'm going to use


__________________
Pásate por mi Blog en Español www.arrecifemadrid.com

Current Tank Info: 100 Gallon reef, 40G Mini-reef, 30G LPS tank and 16G nano/prop tank
emora is offline  
Unread 08/23/2005, 07:56 AM   #60
captbunzo
Premium Member
 
captbunzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: South Ascot, Berkshire, England
Posts: 3,950
Anthony - you mention that this should cost $20 or less. What type of sand are you including in this price? Are we maybe talking something like the Southdown play sand I have heard is sold at Home Depot?


__________________
Paul Thompson
South Ascot, Berkshire, England

RK: Where only bad things happen fast...

CRAZY 4 the CRASE - Sometime 2008

Current Tank Info: 180 litre UK Reef
captbunzo is offline  
Unread 08/23/2005, 10:40 AM   #61
Lrgclasper
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Juneau, Alaska
Posts: 336
I would get silica sand from home depot. I have used that stuff for years without any problems. You might mix some argonite in for buffer.


Lrgclasper is offline  
Unread 08/24/2005, 11:32 PM   #62
Cody Ray
Registered Member
 
Cody Ray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,101
I think I finally figured out what seaclone skimmers are for, lol! You could easily fill one almost to the top of the tub that enters the skimmer body with sand, and I'm sure that the constant swirling of the water would prevent ANYTHING from settling on the surface of the sand. Might need to replace the pump with something smaller, might be a bit too much IMO.


__________________
Limit 1 stupid question per day

Current Tank Info: Mr. Aqua 7.5g bowfront
Cody Ray is offline  
Unread 08/25/2005, 06:41 PM   #63
emora
Registered Member
 
emora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madrid, Spain (originally from Seattle, WA)
Posts: 161
ChinChek if the flow is to high through the sand there will not be any anaerobic or anoxic areas and threfore there will be no nitrate reduction.

Anthony is saying to have a slow flow OVER the sand rather than through it.

Although its probably still better than using the seaclone as a
skimmer ;-)


__________________
Pásate por mi Blog en Español www.arrecifemadrid.com

Current Tank Info: 100 Gallon reef, 40G Mini-reef, 30G LPS tank and 16G nano/prop tank
emora is offline  
Unread 08/25/2005, 10:11 PM   #64
Cody Ray
Registered Member
 
Cody Ray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,101
This is what I really ment to get across

The water would enter through the bottom like normal and exit though the top like normal, except there isn't any air being bled into the pump. The key is that when the water exits the top of the tube it is swirling, which would preven ANYTHING from settling on the surface of the sand. However, a much smaller pump would be needed, the maxi-jet 1200 would create a sand storm!


__________________
Limit 1 stupid question per day

Current Tank Info: Mr. Aqua 7.5g bowfront
Cody Ray is offline  
Unread 08/25/2005, 10:30 PM   #65
captbunzo
Premium Member
 
captbunzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: South Ascot, Berkshire, England
Posts: 3,950
Quote:
Originally posted by ChinChek787
This is what I really ment to get across
The water would enter through the bottom like normal and exit though the top like normal, except there isn't any air being bled into the pump. The key is that when the water exits the top of the tube it is swirling, which would preven ANYTHING from settling on the surface of the sand. However, a much smaller pump would be needed, the maxi-jet 1200 would create a sand storm!
You're missing one REALLY important point - that is that water flowing through your tank, and especially out and throw piping, etc, is LOADING with oxygen. At least it is in comparison to the defintions of anoxic and anerobic.

Rather, the only thing you need is the small amount of water flowing across the top of the sand. With the small water volume and the moderate flow, it will wash all things away wonderfully.

And, btw, I believe what you are describing is called a Fluidized Sand Filter. I believe they are more often and appropriately used in fish stores and larger aquariums.

The REAL experts here - Please correct me if I am wrong...


__________________
Paul Thompson
South Ascot, Berkshire, England

RK: Where only bad things happen fast...

CRAZY 4 the CRASE - Sometime 2008

Current Tank Info: 180 litre UK Reef
captbunzo is offline  
Unread 08/25/2005, 10:42 PM   #66
Cody Ray
Registered Member
 
Cody Ray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,101
Hmm, still am not getting the idea across. The water isn't traveling THROUGH the sand. The tube that feeds the skimmer only lets water out from the top. If the sand is poured around that tube (which is inside the skimmer) than the water entering the skimmer goes through the tube, out the top, fills the chamber, and exits the skimmer body. The top layer of sand will be oxygenated, however the skimmer itself is deep enough that most of the sand will be oxygen-poor.


__________________
Limit 1 stupid question per day

Current Tank Info: Mr. Aqua 7.5g bowfront
Cody Ray is offline  
Unread 08/25/2005, 10:43 PM   #67
Cody Ray
Registered Member
 
Cody Ray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,101
Also, like I said, a smaller pump would be used, and air is NOT added like it would normally be if it were being used as a skimmer.


__________________
Limit 1 stupid question per day

Current Tank Info: Mr. Aqua 7.5g bowfront
Cody Ray is offline  
Unread 08/26/2005, 01:37 AM   #68
emora
Registered Member
 
emora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madrid, Spain (originally from Seattle, WA)
Posts: 161
The water isn't traveling THROUGH the sand.

I got it.

The major issue I see is the size. You cant fit much sand in there. You wont get much of a result either. I rather defeats the point of using this method.

Just get a cheap 5 gallon bucket.


__________________
Pásate por mi Blog en Español www.arrecifemadrid.com

Current Tank Info: 100 Gallon reef, 40G Mini-reef, 30G LPS tank and 16G nano/prop tank
emora is offline  
Unread 08/26/2005, 07:51 AM   #69
Cody Ray
Registered Member
 
Cody Ray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,101
I would, however I do not have the room in my stand, it is only 10" wide!


__________________
Limit 1 stupid question per day

Current Tank Info: Mr. Aqua 7.5g bowfront
Cody Ray is offline  
Unread 08/26/2005, 08:08 AM   #70
mwood
Premium Member
 
mwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winterset, IA 50273
Posts: 2,299
The issue I had when I tried a DSB in a bucket is the sand storm. I used a rio 1100 with a valve to turn the flow down and still ended up with sand everywere. Locked up the return pump and was a PITA to clean up. After that I just yanked it and put in more LR. It's a cool idea, but not worth that risk.

Marcus


mwood is offline  
Unread 08/26/2005, 08:36 AM   #71
emora
Registered Member
 
emora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madrid, Spain (originally from Seattle, WA)
Posts: 161
Quote:
Originally posted by mwood
The issue I had when I tried a DSB in a bucket is the sand storm. I used a rio 1100 with a valve to turn the flow down and still ended up with sand everywere. Locked up the return pump and was a PITA to clean up. After that I just yanked it and put in more LR. It's a cool idea, but not worth that risk.

Marcus
Way too much flow


__________________
Pásate por mi Blog en Español www.arrecifemadrid.com

Current Tank Info: 100 Gallon reef, 40G Mini-reef, 30G LPS tank and 16G nano/prop tank
emora is offline  
Unread 08/26/2005, 08:40 AM   #72
emora
Registered Member
 
emora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madrid, Spain (originally from Seattle, WA)
Posts: 161
Quote:
Originally posted by ChinChek787
I would, however I do not have the room in my stand, it is only 10" wide!
Perhaps you should consider a different solution.


__________________
Pásate por mi Blog en Español www.arrecifemadrid.com

Current Tank Info: 100 Gallon reef, 40G Mini-reef, 30G LPS tank and 16G nano/prop tank
emora is offline  
Unread 08/26/2005, 08:43 AM   #73
mwood
Premium Member
 
mwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winterset, IA 50273
Posts: 2,299
Quote:
Originally posted by emora
Way too much flow

Rio 1100's are rated at 300 gph. If I had it turned down to 250 or 200, that is too much flow? In a 20 gal tote with 4" of water on top of the sand?


mwood is offline  
Unread 08/26/2005, 09:08 AM   #74
Anthony Calfo
Registered Member
 
Anthony Calfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,436
I have 1100 gph going through a 20 gall marsh refugium with 3" of sugar fine oolitic sand... and all from a 1" nozzle! Not a grain of sand disturbed, so to speak.

The solution: a $1.49 Aquaclear powerfilter foam block slitted and slipped onto the end of the feed line. The water diffuses gently through a foam block.

Be resourceful my friends.


__________________
"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

Current Tank Info: 2K gallon fishroom, garden ponds

Last edited by Anthony Calfo; 08/26/2005 at 10:09 AM.
Anthony Calfo is offline  
Unread 08/26/2005, 09:59 AM   #75
mthedude
Registered Member
 
mthedude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 549
I'm thinking if you took a plain old 5g bucket and placed it in the sump you could feed it with raw water from the overflow if you rigged up some sort of drip tray w/prefilter to difuse the water over the surface of the sand more, then just let the water spill over the sides and back into the sump, it wouldn't be devoid of light in my setup as my fuge is next in line w/my sump but I think it would probaby work. Cheapest way to zero nitrates for thos of us who have been plagued w/NO3 since day one.


__________________
You........Cake or Death?
I'll have the cake please....
....well we're outta cake!

Current Tank Info: 55g Reef Tank, scooter blenny, tail spot blenny, cleaner shrimp, button polyps, fuzzy mushrooms, hammer coral, multi color zoos, 10 gal fuge, Octopus NW150
mthedude is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2022 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.