Does anyone own a Leafy Sea Dragon?? - Page 2

MinuteJohn · 12/27/2005, 04:17 PM

Here's an article of interest. I was under the impression they had never been bred in captivity but I guess I was ill-informed.

"In 2001 the Sea Dragons at the Aquarium of the Pacific bred and produced baby Sea Dragons for the first time in captivity."

After the marine biologists iron out the wrinkles in captive breeding some enterprising aquariusts will start breeding them for sale. I wouldn't be suprised if in 10 years there are a few people on this board with seadragons in their homes. Hopefully I will be one of them. Amazing creatures.

verytricky · 12/27/2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MinuteJohn
I was under the impression they had never been bred in captivity but I guess I was ill-informed. [/B]

No - I think you got it right.

There are two species generally held, weedies and leafies. Weedies have been bred in captivity, Leafies not AFAIK.

INNOVATOR · 12/27/2005, 10:17 PM

CITES has identified their need for attention and have labeled them as Data Deficient for now until further research can be conducted. They are under export control from Australia; however, the assumed threat is once the South East Asian regions have depleted their stocks (medicinal purposes), new stock focus' will be directed to Australia.

Most public aquariums would prefer to have them in a reasonable sized tank because of their large adult size and mating habits. Obviously, taller displays are most important to prevent breaching the surface plus the advantage of better water parameter control i.e. stability. Of course, there is the public phenomenom factor. Who woudn't love to go see a huge P. eques display?

Seahorsewisprer · 12/28/2005, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by INNOVATOR
[B] the assumed threat is once the South East Asian regions have depleted their stocks (medicinal purposes),

Geez! Why can't they just use Viagra like the rest of the planet?!

I still think it's only a matter of time 'till someone realizes the lucrative potential here! The advances in captive breeding techinigues, esp the increasing availability of highly nutritious zoo and phytoplankton cultures are very encouraging to those of us watching the CB market explode.

Maybe OR will try it when CB seahorses are in every LFS for $20 bucks! Hopefully, they will know the weird shipping requirements!

Bluetangclan · 12/28/2005, 06:07 PM

Actually my LFS has gotten them before special order after more than a few years of trying. I beleive he told me his were aqualcultured and there was a waiting list and a customer on the suppliers end backed out and one came open. Price tag for the little bad boy was something like $7000, not counting how much the chilled large volume tall tank setup he sold as well. This was about 5 years ago when he sold it. From what he told me, it is still doing fine. This is also the guy I am working with on finding some other hard to find Sygnathids from around the world.

Bluetangclan · 12/28/2005, 06:16 PM

double post

btuck · 12/28/2005, 09:27 PM

seadragons need larger tanks both because of their size and territoral behavior. Just because they don't move much doesn't mean they don't need it. They need space to be happy. I could live in a house the size of a cardboard box but I wouldn't be very happy in it.

Perhaps we have been given different information but I've always been told that they won't accept dead food. They only eat live. Their food must be able to grow in colder waters such as mysis. So not only will you need a chiller for your dragon but you will also need a seperate tank and chiller to grow your food. (Unless you want to constantly be buying live food.)

With all the difficulties it would take to raise one of these creatures I don't think it's worth even trying to keep them. But that's just my opinion.

swims withthe fishes · 01/08/2006, 02:33 PM

If you can't understand the reccomendations set for a leafy, then you should take a look at the care requirements for a standard readily available seahorse in captivity, and multiply it by 10,000 for this very rare and nearly unattainable, expensive creature...

i have a $3,000 setup for a $50 fish, what do you expect to spend to house a $7500 fish?

though the mall of america may do something, would you ask an employee at the mall for tank setup advice? not me.

agilis · 01/08/2006, 02:59 PM

Sure, I've got lots of leafy Sea Dragons, so many I use them as feeder fish for my beloved Mantis Shrimp.

All seriousness aside though, why is it that so many seahorse fans seem to have two digit IQs? Do they really think that seahorses are in some way profoundly different from other fishes? Some of these seahorse fans seem to have a bad case of Fantasy Fi****is. This includes including a couple who write for aquarium magazines. The use of terms like "hitching post", "mare", "mustang, or "colt", and the hippocampusization of what is nothing more than a highly specialized fish form that evolved in response to environmental cues, suggests a need for a hefty dose of Traditional Chinese Medicine in powdered form.

Bluetangclan · 01/08/2006, 03:37 PM

Can you say useless troll? if you dont have anything valuable to add, then shut the hell up and dont comment. This is a hobbyist board for the spread of useful information not a place for idiots to try and start arguements, Agilis.

agilis · 01/08/2006, 04:18 PM

Thank you for your thoughtful and instructive comments.

I am a follower of this hobby, and I thought my remarks might be useful, in some way. I'm not sure what you mean by"troll". Did you have the underthebridge kind in mind, or did you intend some high-tech internet meaning?

In any event, your courtesy does you great credit, and is undoubtedly matched by your aquaristic skill.

Bluetangclan · 01/08/2006, 04:25 PM

I still havent figured out whether you are serious or just "trolling" the board for an arguement. Appearently you have never had sygs enough to know they are kept very different from standard fish. Suggesting that they be turned into powder for those bastards in Asia for their hokey medicine on a seahorse board isnt exactly the most politically correct thing to do either.

Swanwillow · 01/08/2006, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by agilis
Sure, I've got lots of leafy Sea Dragons, so many I use them as feeder fish for my beloved Mantis Shrimp.

All seriousness aside though, why is it that so many seahorse fans seem to have two digit IQs? Do they really think that seahorses are in some way profoundly different from other fishes? Some of these seahorse fans seem to have a bad case of Fantasy Fi****is. This includes including a couple who write for aquarium magazines. The use of terms like "hitching post", "mare", "mustang, or "colt", and the hippocampusization of what is nothing more than a highly specialized fish form that evolved in response to environmental cues, suggests a need for a hefty dose of Traditional Chinese Medicine in powdered form.

seahorses use hitching posts... its what they hitch to... they have flexable tails, and need to beable to wrap it around something in order to, well, do seahorse things. I have never heard a seahorse called a mare or a colt... mustang, yes, but thats because some places tacked that name onto them. you speak of mantis's... so you should know a few words used there that others may not-feeding sticks, stomatopods, peacocks, segment lines, photoreceptors...

did I mention that I had a mantis shrimp? to seahorse keepers, that whole line is mostly nonesense, whereas if I went to the stomatopod forum, and asked "how many photoreceptors are used at midnight during a full moon" it would erupt into a very intelligent discussion.

I do wish that people would stop using things at the rate that they do:IE powdered seahorses, ect. its disgusting!!! I can see the use, but not for what they use it as, or the rate they do. I come from an alternative religion that respects nature, but I would be ashamed to use an animal part in any ceremony that I do. I'll burn renewable resources, I'll eat jerky... and steak, hamburger, things like that. But nothing is ENDANGERED and everything that is used in my religion is plant based, and fully renewable. IF anything that I do use becomes hard to find, I will stop using it. I will not go out and buy holly if it somehow becomes nearly endangered.

verytricky · 01/08/2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by btuck
Perhaps we have been given different information but I've always been told that they won't accept dead food. They only eat live.

Robin James, who is in the UK showed me his collection of dragons, all of which eat frozen. They are agressive feeders of frozen foods.

In Minnneappolliss ( damn name! ) there is an aquarium where they converted them to frozen in 4 days! Try that with a seahorse!

agilis · 01/08/2006, 05:01 PM

Looking for an argument? Are you a Monty Python fan. No, I''m not.

Keeping seahorses successfully has specific requirements, but what, I wonder, is a "standard" fish? Aren't there many kinds of fishes with very specialized needs that can only be met in species- dedicated aquariums? I never questioned that. In fact, my seahorse experience is fairly extensive. I've even raised a few from itty-bitty cute little colts. What a pain! Greenwater cultures and rotifers, plankton collecting, multiple rearing corrals, etc.

These days, those that have the bad luck to be born in one of my aquaria either get embedded in lucite or sent straight to China.

mickey57 · 02/06/2006, 11:45 PM

..............Agilis,Look up top and see what forum you are in Be gone Troll
..............Mickey

agilis · 02/07/2006, 10:32 AM

the forum seems to be "Seahorses and Pipefish". Perhaps that ought to be "Pipefishes", but let's not quibble. In any case, I think my posts were indeed within that category.
Unless I missed something, the forum is not entitled "Posts from militantly devoted lovers of seahorses and pipefishes". It seems to me that the actual forum title can legitimately include topics that suggest a dislike of these creatures, and of those who keep them. The only implicit limitation is that the topic involve seahorses and their relatives. I think my my posts meet that criterion.

In connection with the "troll" term you seem to have directed at me, I think it is inaccurate, since I don't live under a bridge and devour hapless villagers. Lighten up dude. Check with your local community college, and see if they offer courses like " Developing a sense of humor, even if you are a literal-minded belligerent dullard".

mickey57 · 02/07/2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by agilis
Check with your local community college, and see if they offer courses like " Developing a sense of humor, even if you are a literal-minded belligerent dullard".

............***************..............
........................Yeap,Troll fits here.Stop by FCCJ and sign up for my class.Off with you,Troll.Go bother the decorator crab people

......................Mickey

agilis · 02/07/2006, 02:18 PM

My guess is that you are an untenured adjunct, one of those retired technical or marketing types so often employed by open admissions community colleges. Many of these institutions take advantage of intellectually enfeebled retirees, paying them only three or four hundred per credit hour. Perhaps I am wrong, yeaping to unwarranted conclusions.

What is "yeap"? Is this a regional variant of "yep"?
Another thing: is "begone" part of your normal spoken vocabulary? Do you sometimes couple it with "knave" or "varlet"?

I notice that you ignored the substance of my reply to your initial post, the one suggesting I scan upward to this forum's title. Instead, you choose to focus on my community college suggestion, making it clear that you taught a class at one of those places. It hath a pretentious smack.

Seriously, though, I wish you'd confine your comments to issues connected with seahorses and pipefishes. Just scan up and check out the name of this forum.

imbuggin · 02/07/2006, 02:25 PM

grow up guys you have made this thread worthless and it should be closed! Try pming each other we don't care about you non reef related battles.

agilis · 02/07/2006, 02:44 PM

Just kidding. You are right. I apologize. I'll go and sin no more; or, at least, grow the heck up.

cutsupremetrib · 02/07/2006, 06:10 PM

wow what a post LOL

MarkKlier · 02/07/2006, 08:12 PM

MinuteJohn..thanks for the link, some very good information, enjoyed it. MK

TankFabricator · 06/15/2006, 03:00 PM

Hugs... not hate

RichConley · 06/19/2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by imbuggin
I have seen them at many public aquariums around the world. The question I have is why everyone thinks they need these huge tanks? ALL of the times I have seen them on display it was never a huge tank and a few of them were together? They move slow like seahorses and swim little. So why do you all think they need 300-500 gallon tanks. Non of the public aquariums seem to agree?

That being said they are wicked cool and I am glad they are protected. I am not recomending keeping them in small tanks. I just have never seen them in large tanks like people are claiming.

I've seen them in 2 places, New England Aquarium, and The Shedd, and in both, the tanks were 1000g+, NEAQ being a tank that was an ~6' circle, and 6-8 feet deep.

So I completely disagree.

01/08/2006, 02:33 PM	#33
swims withthe fishes Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Woodstock Posts: 1,330	If you can't understand the reccomendations set for a leafy, then you should take a look at the care requirements for a standard readily available seahorse in captivity, and multiply it by 10,000 for this very rare and nearly unattainable, expensive creature... i have a $3,000 setup for a $50 fish, what do you expect to spend to house a $7500 fish? though the mall of america may do something, would you ask an employee at the mall for tank setup advice? not me. __________________ Fish are Icthy Current Tank Info: 12 Gallon non photo synthetic, 200 gal DAS Reef Pond, setting up 90gal sps/clam

01/08/2006, 03:37 PM	#35
Bluetangclan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando(Wedgefield), Fl Posts: 555	umm Can you say useless troll? if you dont have anything valuable to add, then shut the hell up and dont comment. This is a hobbyist board for the spread of useful information not a place for idiots to try and start arguements, Agilis.

01/08/2006, 04:18 PM	#36
agilis Moved On Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 107	wutangclan Thank you for your thoughtful and instructive comments. I am a follower of this hobby, and I thought my remarks might be useful, in some way. I'm not sure what you mean by"troll". Did you have the underthebridge kind in mind, or did you intend some high-tech internet meaning? In any event, your courtesy does you great credit, and is undoubtedly matched by your aquaristic skill.

02/06/2006, 11:45 PM	#41
mickey57 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,546	..............Agilis,Look up top and see what forum you are in Be gone Troll ..............Mickey __________________ Don't back anything into a corner that is meaner than you! Current Tank Info: (3)reefs: 75gl bowfront,(2)46 bowfronts:(1) 76gal bowfront(discus).(1) 49gal quarintine,(1)55gal.chilads (1)29gal.propegating tank

02/07/2006, 10:32 AM	#42
agilis Moved On Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 107	Dear Mickey; the forum seems to be "Seahorses and Pipefish". Perhaps that ought to be "Pipefishes", but let's not quibble. In any case, I think my posts were indeed within that category. Unless I missed something, the forum is not entitled "Posts from militantly devoted lovers of seahorses and pipefishes". It seems to me that the actual forum title can legitimately include topics that suggest a dislike of these creatures, and of those who keep them. The only implicit limitation is that the topic involve seahorses and their relatives. I think my my posts meet that criterion. In connection with the "troll" term you seem to have directed at me, I think it is inaccurate, since I don't live under a bridge and devour hapless villagers. Lighten up dude. Check with your local community college, and see if they offer courses like " Developing a sense of humor, even if you are a literal-minded belligerent dullard".

12/27/2005, 04:17 PM	#26
MinuteJohn Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: P.S.N. Posts: 71	Here's an article of interest. I was under the impression they had never been bred in captivity but I guess I was ill-informed. "In 2001 the Sea Dragons at the Aquarium of the Pacific bred and produced baby Sea Dragons for the first time in captivity." After the marine biologists iron out the wrinkles in captive breeding some enterprising aquariusts will start breeding them for sale. I wouldn't be suprised if in 10 years there are a few people on this board with seadragons in their homes. Hopefully I will be one of them. Amazing creatures.

12/27/2005, 10:17 PM	#28
INNOVATOR Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,041	CITES has identified their need for attention and have labeled them as Data Deficient for now until further research can be conducted. They are under export control from Australia; however, the assumed threat is once the South East Asian regions have depleted their stocks (medicinal purposes), new stock focus' will be directed to Australia. Most public aquariums would prefer to have them in a reasonable sized tank because of their large adult size and mating habits. Obviously, taller displays are most important to prevent breaching the surface plus the advantage of better water parameter control i.e. stability. Of course, there is the public phenomenom factor. Who woudn't love to go see a huge P. eques display?

12/28/2005, 06:07 PM	#30
Bluetangclan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando(Wedgefield), Fl Posts: 555	Actually my LFS has gotten them before special order after more than a few years of trying. I beleive he told me his were aqualcultured and there was a waiting list and a customer on the suppliers end backed out and one came open. Price tag for the little bad boy was something like $7000, not counting how much the chilled large volume tall tank setup he sold as well. This was about 5 years ago when he sold it. From what he told me, it is still doing fine. This is also the guy I am working with on finding some other hard to find Sygnathids from around the world.

12/28/2005, 06:16 PM	#31
Bluetangclan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando(Wedgefield), Fl Posts: 555	double post

12/28/2005, 09:27 PM	#32
btuck Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 38	seadragons need larger tanks both because of their size and territoral behavior. Just because they don't move much doesn't mean they don't need it. They need space to be happy. I could live in a house the size of a cardboard box but I wouldn't be very happy in it. Perhaps we have been given different information but I've always been told that they won't accept dead food. They only eat live. Their food must be able to grow in colder waters such as mysis. So not only will you need a chiller for your dragon but you will also need a seperate tank and chiller to grow your food. (Unless you want to constantly be buying live food.) With all the difficulties it would take to raise one of these creatures I don't think it's worth even trying to keep them. But that's just my opinion.

01/08/2006, 02:59 PM	#34
agilis Moved On Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 107	Sure, I've got lots of leafy Sea Dragons, so many I use them as feeder fish for my beloved Mantis Shrimp. All seriousness aside though, why is it that so many seahorse fans seem to have two digit IQs? Do they really think that seahorses are in some way profoundly different from other fishes? Some of these seahorse fans seem to have a bad case of Fantasy Fi****is. This includes including a couple who write for aquarium magazines. The use of terms like "hitching post", "mare", "mustang, or "colt", and the hippocampusization of what is nothing more than a highly specialized fish form that evolved in response to environmental cues, suggests a need for a hefty dose of Traditional Chinese Medicine in powdered form.

01/08/2006, 04:25 PM	#37
Bluetangclan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando(Wedgefield), Fl Posts: 555	I still havent figured out whether you are serious or just "trolling" the board for an arguement. Appearently you have never had sygs enough to know they are kept very different from standard fish. Suggesting that they be turned into powder for those bastards in Asia for their hokey medicine on a seahorse board isnt exactly the most politically correct thing to do either.

01/08/2006, 05:01 PM	#40
agilis Moved On Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 107	Looking for an argument? Are you a Monty Python fan. No, I''m not. Keeping seahorses successfully has specific requirements, but what, I wonder, is a "standard" fish? Aren't there many kinds of fishes with very specialized needs that can only be met in species- dedicated aquariums? I never questioned that. In fact, my seahorse experience is fairly extensive. I've even raised a few from itty-bitty cute little colts. What a pain! Greenwater cultures and rotifers, plankton collecting, multiple rearing corrals, etc. These days, those that have the bad luck to be born in one of my aquaria either get embedded in lucite or sent straight to China.

02/07/2006, 02:18 PM	#44
agilis Moved On Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 107	Yeap My guess is that you are an untenured adjunct, one of those retired technical or marketing types so often employed by open admissions community colleges. Many of these institutions take advantage of intellectually enfeebled retirees, paying them only three or four hundred per credit hour. Perhaps I am wrong, yeaping to unwarranted conclusions. What is "yeap"? Is this a regional variant of "yep"? Another thing: is "begone" part of your normal spoken vocabulary? Do you sometimes couple it with "knave" or "varlet"? I notice that you ignored the substance of my reply to your initial post, the one suggesting I scan upward to this forum's title. Instead, you choose to focus on my community college suggestion, making it clear that you taught a class at one of those places. It hath a pretentious smack. Seriously, though, I wish you'd confine your comments to issues connected with seahorses and pipefishes. Just scan up and check out the name of this forum.

02/07/2006, 02:25 PM	#45
imbuggin Moved On Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: chicago Posts: 1,495	grow up grow up guys you have made this thread worthless and it should be closed! Try pming each other we don't care about you non reef related battles.

02/07/2006, 02:44 PM	#46
agilis Moved On Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 107	Begone! Off with you! Just kidding. You are right. I apologize. I'll go and sin no more; or, at least, grow the heck up.

02/07/2006, 06:10 PM	#47
cutsupremetrib Moved On Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lafayette Posts: 400	wow what a post LOL

02/07/2006, 08:12 PM	#48
MarkKlier Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Rochester NY Posts: 1,568	MinuteJohn..thanks for the link, some very good information, enjoyed it. MK

06/15/2006, 03:00 PM	#49
TankFabricator Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston/College Station Posts: 35	woah Hugs... not hate