Lets see those steel stands! - Page 9

coralfragger101 · 04/27/2008, 02:29 PM

Tank: Stock Perfecto 150 High (so unfortunately it isn't starfire)
I took the top plastic brace off and replaced it with a ONE PIECE euro brace. In the photo below you can see it as well as the two weirs I cut out of the back of the tank for an external overflow box.

Stand: Made from 1.5 x 2.0 tubular steel

The plastic grabber: Don't know what you call them, "Fish Tongs?" Found that at an LFS

The forest of clear things: That's a piece of acrylic sheeting with acrylic rods glued to it (actually drilled holes first). This created support for the rockwork so any sand burrowers can create their homes under the rock and I don't have to worry about it crashing down on them.

kcress · 04/27/2008, 03:22 PM

Ah, all things answered. And quickly too. Thanks.

MeuserReef · 04/28/2008, 09:02 AM

ronjeremy311... thanks for the link to the magnets and for chiming in on this thread. Im still not 100% sure how I will be attaching the cabinet to the stand, but Im leaning torward a mechanical latch, rather than a magnet.

coralfragger101... welcome to this thread!! You certainly have a nice looking setup there! I dont think you will have ANY support issues with that stand!

I really like the way that you created a "top-end" tank out of a Perfecto. I, too am using a Perfecto as my display (60" x 18" 120Gal.), however I decided to go with the 3-Pipe "silent" overflow as outlined by BeanAnimal in THIS THREAD. My tank sits in my living room and I am a firm believer that a tank should be seen and not heard.

Did you do the routing yourself or did you enlist the help of a glass shop (and what did it cost you

)

stunreefer... any updates?

coralfragger101 · 04/28/2008, 06:12 PM

I wish I would have seen the 3 Pipe overflow before I made mine. I do have some noise issues but they can really only be heard from the fish room side of the tank. The living room area is "almost" quiet. However I did have to get used to a babbling brook to go to sleep by which wasn't a bad thing.

I did drill the holes and cut the weirs myself but I wasn't about to attempt the one piece euro brace. The weirs were hand cut simply using a dremel and a carbide tile cutting bit (believe it or not). I talked a glass shop into doing the one piece euro brace. They regret agreeing to do it now. They broke 3 pieces and finally got it right on the 4th attempt. I paid 3 bills just for that piece of glass. I think the glass company lost money.

MeuserReef · 04/28/2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

I paid 3 bills just for that piece of glass. I think the glass company lost money.

WOW!!

It sure is nice, though!

Dudester · 04/29/2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stunreefer
Really? I want to build my stand similar to dudesters stand here:

But could I remove the 2 middle bottom cross pieces? That would be awesome! It would be much easier to get some kind of a pan for that, or just put on the floor (its in basement)!

Sorry, just saw this. I have the cross pieces on the bottom due to the fact that I wanted my sump elevated off of the floor, and I didn't trust the weight of the sump being distributed on the outsides of the bottom material alone. As for a pan, I like the suggestion already made, or you could consider something like this.

stunreefer · 04/29/2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MeuserReef stunreefer... any updates?

I will be ordering the materials by Friday!

I have to figuire out my light scheme now, because I want to build some kind of a hanging canopy or frame for my lights with the steel.

We'll see what I come up with... I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for all the help guys!

stunreefer · 04/29/2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dudester
Sorry, just saw this.

No worries!

Quote:

Originally posted by Dudester
I have the cross pieces on the bottom due to the fact that I wanted my sump elevated off of the floor, and I didn't trust the weight of the sump being distributed on the outsides of the bottom material alone. As for a pan, I like the suggestion already made, or you could consider something like this.

Yeah I'm going to go with no bottom braces in middle, and create some kind of pans for the return pump, and CL pumps.

Thanks for the help!

MeuserReef · 04/29/2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stunreefer
I have to figuire out my light scheme now, because I want to build some kind of a hanging canopy or frame for my lights with the steel.

I know the feeling. Im still trying to consider how Im going to accomplish my light rack too. My canopy is going to be made of wood, however Im thinking of using Aluminum to make the light holder for my (2) existing 150W DE Halides and the (4) 54W T5 bulbs that I will be adding.

stunreefer · 04/29/2008, 04:52 PM

Alright I was able to mock up a poor drawing, but you get the idea - lol.

The only thing I'm still considering is in the FRONT pic, and its the sheer bracing (which is on the backside of the stand). Right now I have 1.5" steel bar going horizontally from corner to corner, I think I remember reading you could do this to have less welds to make. Do you think I could replace this with the little corner flat steel pieces (blue lines in pic) if I wanted to?

I'm also not sure how far apart I want the middle braces to be. I'm thinking of leaving a little bit bigger center space, but that doesn't change amount of material needed, so I've got time to decide.

BTW- This is for a 275 gal display that measures 60"L x 44"W x 24"H. Will I be safe with 1.5" bar? Or do I need 2" bar?

LMK what you guys think, Thanks!

kcress · 04/30/2008, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stunreefer
Do you think I could replace this with the little corner flat steel pieces (blue lines in pic) if I wanted to?

Will I be safe with 1.5" bar? Or do I need 2" bar?

Yeah the little corner things will be fine.

Bar?? You mean actual bar?? Or tubing?

stunreefer · 04/30/2008, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kcress Bar?? You mean actual bar?? Or tubing?

I mean square hollow tubing. I dont think you could even budge a stand that was made of steel bar! lol

MeuserReef · 04/30/2008, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stunreefer
BTW- This is for a 275 gal display that measures 60"L x 44"W x 24"H. Will I be safe with 1.5" bar? Or do I need 2" bar?

I would probably use the 2" tubing, and would even consider using some diagonal supports running from the inside of the uprights to the underside of the center horizontal supports.

stunreefer · 04/30/2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MeuserReef
I would probably use the 2" tubing, and would even consider using some diagonal supports running from the inside of the uprights to the underside of the center horizontal supports.

Thanks Meuser, I was leaning towards 2" tubing too.

I was lost initially on your second statement there, but I think I got it. Is this what your talking about (new diagonal supports in red):

Thanks!

stunreefer · 04/30/2008, 11:46 AM

Oh yeah, since I'm going to use 2" tubing now, should I use a 7 gauge (roughly 3/16" ) wall? Or will I still be OK with an 11 gauge wall (roughly 1/8")?

I think I should be OK with the 1/8" wall, but I dont know. The price increase from 1.5" tube to 2" tube is only $60, while increasing the wall thickness is an extra $100 on top of that!

Konadog · 04/30/2008, 11:59 AM

stunreefer, the 1/8 will be fine. My 225 is roughly the same size (72 x 30 x 24), I really don't think you need the diagonal supports, I didn't. Again we way over build these stands. If you feel the need, you can always use plate triangles.

MeuserReef · 04/30/2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stunreefer
Oh yeah, since I'm going to use 2" tubing now, should I use a 7 gauge (roughly 3/16" ) wall? Or will I still be OK with an 11 gauge wall (roughly 1/8")?

I think I should be OK with the 1/8" wall, but I dont know. The price increase from 1.5" tube to 2" tube is only $60, while increasing the wall thickness is an extra $100 on top of that!

I think the 1/8" wall thickness will be plenty as it is some pretty stout stuff! Also keep in mind that if you move from a 1/8" wall to a 3/16" wall, you will increase the overall weight of the stand by a third! My 120 stand (after the liner coating) is probably around 75 lbs, but would have been 112 lbs if I had used the 3/16" (and cost more

)

Konadog, you dont think there will be any flexing issues with his stand being 44" (front to back)? I was thinking that there may be some deflection with the weight of a 275 gallon tank. Im not a structural engineer either so I am probably wrong about this. I seem to always end up in the "over-build-it-for-peace-of-mind" mode

Konadog · 04/30/2008, 03:55 PM

I don't think there will be, most of the load is on the outer edge, but I'm no structural engineer either. I may go ask our engineer just to see what the loading of a 2 x 2 steel tube is. I just remember after mine was built how rigid it was. I thought I could park my truck on the thing and it wouldn't budge

hyperfocal · 04/30/2008, 05:06 PM

I'll bet you coffee and donuts that the 2" square tubing is *way* underloaded

Konadog · 04/30/2008, 06:40 PM

I'll see your "way" and up you a "way, way"

Let's not forget that all the weight is distributed evenly across the entire surface of the stand, not just in one spot. I think we are only talking a few pounds per square inch here, not hundreds.

MeuserReef · 04/30/2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Konadog
I think we are only talking a few pounds per square inch here, not hundreds.

Very good point here. The more I think about it, and the more that I look at my stand, the more I believe that the 1.5" tubing (1/8" thick) will be plenty for stunreef's 275 gallon tank.

I have been thinking of one thing that may change the structural design of this stand; Is stunreef's tank glass or acrylic? If his tank is acrylic (which is not supported entirely by the outside perimeter like glass tanks are) there would be a need to add the diagonals under the center supports (as shown in the diagram above in red). If his tank is glass, then I really dont even see the point of the center horizontal supports as they will not be supporting any weight, right?

Food for thought.

Quote:

Originally posted by hyperfocal
I'll bet you coffee and donuts.....

mmmmmm........ c o f f e e .... and..... d o n u t s....

Konadog · 04/30/2008, 08:17 PM

Well, my LeeMar glass tank doesn't have the plastic edge you might be thinking about with some glass tanks. It's a float bottom. By placing the tank on a piece of plywood, supporting all of the tank, it's spread over the entire surface. So I guess what were saying here is it depends on how the tank is built.

I think we are still over thinking the whole thing

and my point still stands, we tend to over build steel stands. More is better right

hyperfocal · 04/30/2008, 08:24 PM

The load is transferred to the floor by the cross-section of the bottom of the stand's feet -- from that point of view the larger tubing is better I guess, since it spreads the load across a larger area. Are you 'sealing' the ends of the legs?

Konadog · 04/30/2008, 08:36 PM

My stand (as most I believe) are completely sealed. All corners were mitered to keep things sealed. Just another place to worry about rust IMO.

stunreefer · 05/01/2008, 06:52 AM

Wow, thanks for the replies guys!

Meuser - My tank is 3/4" acrylic, all the way around, and theres no (plastic) frame on it.

hyperfocal - I will be sealing the ends of the stands, and I was not planning on adding any feet to it, it was going to be sitting flat on the ground.

However, I'm interested in adding feet if possible, for cheap, anybody know where to get the "self- leveling" feet or the best way to do it? I remember seeing Dudesters stand with self-leveling feet, shown here:

Any ideas on a chep easy way to do this? Honestly I initially was staying away from this to keep everything easy for my welders, but I would rather have them on there.

Konadog - I will also be putting a piece of plywood down, and probably the real thin foam on top of that too. Isn't your stand made of 2"x2" square tubing?

The materials are going to be ordered tomorrow, or maybe even late today. I have to break down my old stand this weekend to get ready for the new beast.

LMK what you guys think on the final call of tubing size (ie 1.5" or 2"). Remember, its only $60 more for the 2" tubing, but if its not necessary I'll stick with the 1.5" to save some bucks, and to keep weight down. I don't want to break my back trying to move this thing - lol.

Thanks!

04/27/2008, 02:29 PM	#201
coralfragger101 Gone Postal Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 5,461	Tank: Stock Perfecto 150 High (so unfortunately it isn't starfire) I took the top plastic brace off and replaced it with a ONE PIECE euro brace. In the photo below you can see it as well as the two weirs I cut out of the back of the tank for an external overflow box. Stand: Made from 1.5 x 2.0 tubular steel The plastic grabber: Don't know what you call them, "Fish Tongs?" Found that at an LFS The forest of clear things: That's a piece of acrylic sheeting with acrylic rods glued to it (actually drilled holes first). This created support for the rockwork so any sand burrowers can create their homes under the rock and I don't have to worry about it crashing down on them. __________________ Views expressed by this person are not neccessarily the views of any other person and may never be. Apology extended to any member who takes offense to any post. Offense is not meant nor intended. Current Tank Info: NONE - Sold - Can't afford it right now!

04/28/2008, 09:02 AM	#203
MeuserReef Welcome to the next level Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,412	ronjeremy311... thanks for the link to the magnets and for chiming in on this thread. Im still not 100% sure how I will be attaching the cabinet to the stand, but Im leaning torward a mechanical latch, rather than a magnet. coralfragger101... welcome to this thread!! You certainly have a nice looking setup there! I dont think you will have ANY support issues with that stand! I really like the way that you created a "top-end" tank out of a Perfecto. I, too am using a Perfecto as my display (60" x 18" 120Gal.), however I decided to go with the 3-Pipe "silent" overflow as outlined by BeanAnimal in THIS THREAD. My tank sits in my living room and I am a firm believer that a tank should be seen and not heard. Did you do the routing yourself or did you enlist the help of a glass shop (and what did it cost you ) stunreefer... any updates? __________________ "Never be afraid to do something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the titanic." -Anonymous Current Tank Info: tankless

04/28/2008, 06:12 PM	#204
coralfragger101 Gone Postal Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 5,461	I wish I would have seen the 3 Pipe overflow before I made mine. I do have some noise issues but they can really only be heard from the fish room side of the tank. The living room area is "almost" quiet. However I did have to get used to a babbling brook to go to sleep by which wasn't a bad thing. I did drill the holes and cut the weirs myself but I wasn't about to attempt the one piece euro brace. The weirs were hand cut simply using a dremel and a carbide tile cutting bit (believe it or not). I talked a glass shop into doing the one piece euro brace. They regret agreeing to do it now. They broke 3 pieces and finally got it right on the 4th attempt. I paid 3 bills just for that piece of glass. I think the glass company lost money. __________________ Views expressed by this person are not neccessarily the views of any other person and may never be. Apology extended to any member who takes offense to any post. Offense is not meant nor intended. Current Tank Info: NONE - Sold - Can't afford it right now!

04/29/2008, 04:52 PM	#210
stunreefer Reef Hugger Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Submerged Posts: 3,253	Alright I was able to mock up a poor drawing, but you get the idea - lol. The only thing I'm still considering is in the FRONT pic, and its the sheer bracing (which is on the backside of the stand). Right now I have 1.5" steel bar going horizontally from corner to corner, I think I remember reading you could do this to have less welds to make. Do you think I could replace this with the little corner flat steel pieces (blue lines in pic) if I wanted to? I'm also not sure how far apart I want the middle braces to be. I'm thinking of leaving a little bit bigger center space, but that doesn't change amount of material needed, so I've got time to decide. BTW- This is for a 275 gal display that measures 60"L x 44"W x 24"H. Will I be safe with 1.5" bar? Or do I need 2" bar? LMK what you guys think, Thanks! Last edited by stunreefer; 04/29/2008 at 05:04 PM.

04/30/2008, 11:46 AM	#215
stunreefer Reef Hugger Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Submerged Posts: 3,253	Oh yeah, since I'm going to use 2" tubing now, should I use a 7 gauge (roughly 3/16" ) wall? Or will I still be OK with an 11 gauge wall (roughly 1/8")? I think I should be OK with the 1/8" wall, but I dont know. The price increase from 1.5" tube to 2" tube is only $60, while increasing the wall thickness is an extra $100 on top of that! __________________ -Austin Make your animals Thrive, not just Survive.

04/27/2008, 03:22 PM	#202
kcress Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central California Coast. Posts: 5,383	Ah, all things answered. And quickly too. Thanks.

04/30/2008, 11:59 AM	#216
Konadog Master of the 16 hour day Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East Long Beach, So Cal Posts: 13,151 Blog Entries: 4	stunreefer, the 1/8 will be fine. My 225 is roughly the same size (72 x 30 x 24), I really don't think you need the diagonal supports, I didn't. Again we way over build these stands. If you feel the need, you can always use plate triangles. __________________ Save the Reefs................................................................Save the world! -Ken Current Tank Info: Currently tankless, and loving it!

04/30/2008, 03:55 PM	#218
Konadog Master of the 16 hour day Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East Long Beach, So Cal Posts: 13,151 Blog Entries: 4	I don't think there will be, most of the load is on the outer edge, but I'm no structural engineer either. I may go ask our engineer just to see what the loading of a 2 x 2 steel tube is. I just remember after mine was built how rigid it was. I thought I could park my truck on the thing and it wouldn't budge __________________ Save the Reefs................................................................Save the world! -Ken Current Tank Info: Currently tankless, and loving it!

04/30/2008, 05:06 PM	#219
hyperfocal Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edge of oblivion Posts: 1,708	I'll bet you coffee and donuts that the 2" square tubing is way underloaded __________________ "Froth at the top, dregs at bottom, but the middle excellent." -- Voltaire Current Tank Info: getting back into the hobby

04/30/2008, 06:40 PM	#220
Konadog Master of the 16 hour day Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East Long Beach, So Cal Posts: 13,151 Blog Entries: 4	I'll see your "way" and up you a "way, way" Let's not forget that all the weight is distributed evenly across the entire surface of the stand, not just in one spot. I think we are only talking a few pounds per square inch here, not hundreds. __________________ Save the Reefs................................................................Save the world! -Ken Current Tank Info: Currently tankless, and loving it!

04/30/2008, 08:17 PM	#222
Konadog Master of the 16 hour day Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East Long Beach, So Cal Posts: 13,151 Blog Entries: 4	Well, my LeeMar glass tank doesn't have the plastic edge you might be thinking about with some glass tanks. It's a float bottom. By placing the tank on a piece of plywood, supporting all of the tank, it's spread over the entire surface. So I guess what were saying here is it depends on how the tank is built. I think we are still over thinking the whole thing and my point still stands, we tend to over build steel stands. More is better right __________________ Save the Reefs................................................................Save the world! -Ken Current Tank Info: Currently tankless, and loving it!

04/30/2008, 08:24 PM	#223
hyperfocal Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edge of oblivion Posts: 1,708	The load is transferred to the floor by the cross-section of the bottom of the stand's feet -- from that point of view the larger tubing is better I guess, since it spreads the load across a larger area. Are you 'sealing' the ends of the legs? __________________ "Froth at the top, dregs at bottom, but the middle excellent." -- Voltaire Current Tank Info: getting back into the hobby

04/30/2008, 08:36 PM	#224
Konadog Master of the 16 hour day Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East Long Beach, So Cal Posts: 13,151 Blog Entries: 4	My stand (as most I believe) are completely sealed. All corners were mitered to keep things sealed. Just another place to worry about rust IMO. __________________ Save the Reefs................................................................Save the world! -Ken Current Tank Info: Currently tankless, and loving it!

05/01/2008, 06:52 AM	#225
stunreefer Reef Hugger Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Submerged Posts: 3,253	Wow, thanks for the replies guys! *Meuser* - My tank is 3/4" acrylic, all the way around, and theres no (plastic) frame on it. *hyperfocal* - I will be sealing the ends of the stands, and I was not planning on adding any feet to it, it was going to be sitting flat on the ground. However, I'm interested in adding feet if possible, for cheap, anybody know where to get the "self- leveling" feet or the best way to do it? I remember seeing Dudesters stand with self-leveling feet, shown here: Any ideas on a chep easy way to do this? Honestly I initially was staying away from this to keep everything easy for my welders, but I would rather have them on there. *Konadog* - I will also be putting a piece of plywood down, and probably the real thin foam on top of that too. Isn't your stand made of 2"x2" square tubing? The materials are going to be ordered tomorrow, or maybe even late today. I have to break down my old stand this weekend to get ready for the new beast. LMK what you guys think on the final call of tubing size (ie 1.5" or 2"). Remember, its only $60 more for the 2" tubing, but if its not necessary I'll stick with the 1.5" to save some bucks, and to keep weight down. I don't want to break my back trying to move this thing - lol. Thanks!