What affects Meta in Clownfish Fry?

Katowoo · 08/13/2009, 08:20 AM

My second batch of true perc larvae are just now going through the meta phase and it's coming up on 3 weeks now. I have a third batch of just under 300 larvae exactly a week old now and not entering meta yet and another batch of about 400 eggs due this saturday. Is there anyway I can speed up the meta phase? Is it bad that meta is taking so long? Why is it taking so long for meta... is there something I'm doing wrong?

Thanks in advance for the help!

silveroak · 08/13/2009, 07:29 PM

I'm sure it would help quite a bit if you posted some information about your parameters and feeding. The guys here seem really helpful, but they need information to work with.

gpsmart · 08/14/2009, 04:10 AM

My Ocellaris start meta at about 1 week and I have had two batches of Onyx Percula x B&W Ocellaris go through meta in about the same timeframe. I am on my first batch of A. sandaracinos which are at that same stage now and don't look like they are anywhere near meta. My setup is the same for all species so I am assuming that to some extent it is species dependant. 3 weeks does seem a bit long though. I would expect water quality and nutrition to play a major role in development and, therefore, time to reach meta. My last batch of Onyx Percula x B&W Ocellaris are just over 2 weeks and have two stripes, good colour and are almost ready to be transferred to the GO system. Something may not be right with your larvae or maybe they are just going to be slow to reach meta. Some more info on your water quality, maintenance/cleaning procedures and feeding would be useful.

landlord · 08/14/2009, 06:51 AM

I noticed that insufficient rotifers would cause my A. Frenatus fry to delay in entering meta.

When I raised my 2 batch (45 or so fry) plenty of rots and meta came quick

Batch 3 200 or so fry with insufficient rotifers took much longer to get to meta.

--Kurt

Katowoo · 08/14/2009, 02:33 PM

Sorry guys - here are the params

Tank 1 - 3 weeks old fry just entering meta - Ammonia 0 / PH 8.3 / Nitrate 0 / Temp 82 degrees / SG - 1.024

Tank 2 - 9 days old fry no meta yet - Ammonia 0 / PH 7.8 / Nitrate 0 / Temp 82 degrees / SG - 1.024

Both tanks have the same params but Tank 1 with the 3 week old fry has a higher nitrate level.

I've got tank 1 (3 week fry) on bbs and Otihime A
I've got tank 2 (9 day old) on rots / bbs and Otime A

Batch 3 is due tomorrow.

gpsmart · 08/15/2009, 09:11 PM

I would have to agree with Landlord that nutrition would be the likely cause because your parameters look fine. I osccasionally have some issues with ammonia but yours is OK.

Roughly how many rots/ml do you have? Is your bbs newly hatched? I throw mine out about 20 hours after it hatches so that I am only using bbs with some nutritional value left in it. I have never used Otihime A but I have heard that it needs refrigeration. Is yours still in good condition? Look at the quality of what you are feeding and make sure it is of a suitable size for the size of the larvae. It is no good to the larvae if it is too big for them to eat.

Out of interest, how big are your larvae? My Onyx Perc x B&W Occelaris are up to about 10mm total length at 3 weeks.

Katowoo · 08/16/2009, 12:37 PM

GP - Maybe I don't have enough rots to start out with. On my 1st and 2nd batch I've tapered down the amount of rots dramatically as I'm using BBS and Otihime A now. On my newly hatched 3rd batch last night, I'm going to ensure that I have an extreme dense amount of rots for the first week to see if it makes a difference. I've never been good at estimating how many rots/ml I have. I understand that you can use your hydrometer and mark a circle on it and count how many rots are in the circle to estimate. Is this how everyone else does it? I hatch a new batch of bbs everyday and suck out most of the remaining from the day before when I clean the bottom of the tank daily and add a small amount of new water. So my BBS have the most nutritional value everyday. I don't refridge my Otihime A as it's only about 1.5 weeks old. Should I?

Im not sure what size my percs are at 3 weeks. What's the best way to measure them? Put a ruler up to the tank and try to take a sideways picture of one of the larvae?

BTW - how does everyone take nice shots of their frys on the forums? What setting on the camera do you use? Do you use a flash? What's everyone's settings? I'm not a big camera person.

Thx.!

gpsmart · 08/17/2009, 04:12 AM

I just use a small torch with a narrow beam and shine it through the larval tank. I make a very rough estimate of the rot density from that. After a while you just get a feel for what is OK. Your bbs should be fine by the sounds of things. I have never use Otihime but I just recall reading that it needs refrigeration. Perhaps someone else can chime in with an answer to that one. In any case if it is only 1.5 weeks old I would expect it to be fine.

My 10mm was just an estimate. The biggest one is very active and a glutton at feed time so it is fairly easy to get a good look at it. The ruler near the glass will work if the larvae are also near the glass.

Good luck figuring this one out. Unfortunately I think I am just about out of suggestions but feel free to post more questions if you have any. Perhaps someone who has raised true percs can shed some light on time to reach meta since I am only basing my info on hybrids.

08/13/2009, 08:20 AM	#1
Katowoo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 43	What affects Meta in Clownfish Fry? My second batch of true perc larvae are just now going through the meta phase and it's coming up on 3 weeks now. I have a third batch of just under 300 larvae exactly a week old now and not entering meta yet and another batch of about 400 eggs due this saturday. Is there anyway I can speed up the meta phase? Is it bad that meta is taking so long? Why is it taking so long for meta... is there something I'm doing wrong? Thanks in advance for the help!

08/14/2009, 06:51 AM	#4
landlord Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alexandria, KY Posts: 1,937	I noticed that insufficient rotifers would cause my A. Frenatus fry to delay in entering meta. When I raised my 2 batch (45 or so fry) plenty of rots and meta came quick Batch 3 200 or so fry with insufficient rotifers took much longer to get to meta. --Kurt __________________ Forget the Turtle Man, you got the Coral Man Live Action Fragging! Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon SPS Reef (Sump, Fuge, Skimmer, CX reactor, Chemical filtration, Overflow) by Lifereef, 2x400W 20K Radiums on IceCaps, 2x39W T5 "For fun", RK2, 4x Tunze 6055, Aqua Logic 1/3 HP Chiller, DIY RO/DI ATO 2-Part via Litermeter. Lotsa Clownfish

08/13/2009, 07:29 PM	#2
silveroak Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6	I'm sure it would help quite a bit if you posted some information about your parameters and feeding. The guys here seem really helpful, but they need information to work with.

08/14/2009, 04:10 AM	#3
gpsmart Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 71	My Ocellaris start meta at about 1 week and I have had two batches of Onyx Percula x B&W Ocellaris go through meta in about the same timeframe. I am on my first batch of A. sandaracinos which are at that same stage now and don't look like they are anywhere near meta. My setup is the same for all species so I am assuming that to some extent it is species dependant. 3 weeks does seem a bit long though. I would expect water quality and nutrition to play a major role in development and, therefore, time to reach meta. My last batch of Onyx Percula x B&W Ocellaris are just over 2 weeks and have two stripes, good colour and are almost ready to be transferred to the GO system. Something may not be right with your larvae or maybe they are just going to be slow to reach meta. Some more info on your water quality, maintenance/cleaning procedures and feeding would be useful.

08/14/2009, 02:33 PM	#5
Katowoo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 43	Sorry guys - here are the params Tank 1 - 3 weeks old fry just entering meta - Ammonia 0 / PH 8.3 / Nitrate 0 / Temp 82 degrees / SG - 1.024 Tank 2 - 9 days old fry no meta yet - Ammonia 0 / PH 7.8 / Nitrate 0 / Temp 82 degrees / SG - 1.024 Both tanks have the same params but Tank 1 with the 3 week old fry has a higher nitrate level. I've got tank 1 (3 week fry) on bbs and Otihime A I've got tank 2 (9 day old) on rots / bbs and Otime A Batch 3 is due tomorrow.

08/15/2009, 09:11 PM	#6
gpsmart Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 71	I would have to agree with Landlord that nutrition would be the likely cause because your parameters look fine. I osccasionally have some issues with ammonia but yours is OK. Roughly how many rots/ml do you have? Is your bbs newly hatched? I throw mine out about 20 hours after it hatches so that I am only using bbs with some nutritional value left in it. I have never used Otihime A but I have heard that it needs refrigeration. Is yours still in good condition? Look at the quality of what you are feeding and make sure it is of a suitable size for the size of the larvae. It is no good to the larvae if it is too big for them to eat. Out of interest, how big are your larvae? My Onyx Perc x B&W Occelaris are up to about 10mm total length at 3 weeks.

08/16/2009, 12:37 PM	#7
Katowoo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 43	GP - Maybe I don't have enough rots to start out with. On my 1st and 2nd batch I've tapered down the amount of rots dramatically as I'm using BBS and Otihime A now. On my newly hatched 3rd batch last night, I'm going to ensure that I have an extreme dense amount of rots for the first week to see if it makes a difference. I've never been good at estimating how many rots/ml I have. I understand that you can use your hydrometer and mark a circle on it and count how many rots are in the circle to estimate. Is this how everyone else does it? I hatch a new batch of bbs everyday and suck out most of the remaining from the day before when I clean the bottom of the tank daily and add a small amount of new water. So my BBS have the most nutritional value everyday. I don't refridge my Otihime A as it's only about 1.5 weeks old. Should I? Im not sure what size my percs are at 3 weeks. What's the best way to measure them? Put a ruler up to the tank and try to take a sideways picture of one of the larvae? BTW - how does everyone take nice shots of their frys on the forums? What setting on the camera do you use? Do you use a flash? What's everyone's settings? I'm not a big camera person. Thx.!

08/17/2009, 04:12 AM	#8
gpsmart Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 71	I just use a small torch with a narrow beam and shine it through the larval tank. I make a very rough estimate of the rot density from that. After a while you just get a feel for what is OK. Your bbs should be fine by the sounds of things. I have never use Otihime but I just recall reading that it needs refrigeration. Perhaps someone else can chime in with an answer to that one. In any case if it is only 1.5 weeks old I would expect it to be fine. My 10mm was just an estimate. The biggest one is very active and a glutton at feed time so it is fairly easy to get a good look at it. The ruler near the glass will work if the larvae are also near the glass. Good luck figuring this one out. Unfortunately I think I am just about out of suggestions but feel free to post more questions if you have any. Perhaps someone who has raised true percs can shed some light on time to reach meta since I am only basing my info on hybrids.