Cycling Help Needed on Established Tank!

jobu28 · 12/29/2017, 09:53 PM

I have a Red Sea Reefer 250. I have had it set up for about 1.5 years as a FO system. I have 1 small eel, 2 small lionfish and an angel. The tank ran good for over a year with all good numbers in the beginning. Some time ago(to be honest i stopped testing after it was set up for some time) it must have went out of cycle. Then I lost a fish, so first thing i did was test it. Tank has high nitrites that wont convert? Cleaned out all the detritis i could find. I have "Real Reef" rock in the display part and the sump filled with "marine pure". Salinity 1.1018, Ph 8.5, temp 77. Any thoughts on why this tank went out of cycle and now wont recycle? Its been weeks that I've been monitoring it. Numbers just stay the same and emperor looks like hell. Thanks

rjpotts · 12/29/2017, 10:11 PM

Assuming 1.1018 is a typo, and you really meant 1.018.
How high is high on your nitrates?
How old is the test kit?
Last time you calibrated whatever you're using to measure salinity?
Are you sure the temperature is what your thermometer is telling you it is?
What do you mean by "nitrates won't convert"?
How many water changes have you done since problems arose?
How big were those water changes?
Does your new water contain high nitrates/phosphates?
If, in fact your salinity is 1.018, I'd try and get it up to at least 1.021, if not closer to 1.025. Hyposalinity will make fish look rough.
Is there measurable ammonia or nitrite?

jobu28 · 12/29/2017, 10:32 PM

Nitrites are the problem. Wont convert to Nitrates.

Yes, sorry, 1.018.
Nitrite around 5.0
Calibrated recently. Use my refractometer, a milwaukee salinity tester, and brought to my LFS who tested water and cam out with all the same results.
Confident on temps.
Nitrites wont convert to nitrates. Just staying the same for weeks.
I have done several water changes from 40 gal to 10 gallons over various weeks
RO water was used.
No measurable ammonia. High Nitrites

rjpotts · 12/29/2017, 11:24 PM

Ah, misread that. Sorry.
The bacteria is definitely converting nitrite to nitrate, there really isn't a way to stop that from happening. If it wasn't converting at all, you wouldn't have nitrite, only ammonia.
So something is overwhelming the bacteria.
Is something rotting somewhere that you can't access, or haven't?

jobu28 · 12/30/2017, 08:24 AM

Yea, not sure why not converting to nitrate. Maybe marine pure isnt the answer? I dont belive anything is rotting. I took out all media, rock etc, and washed in tank water. cleaned up sump, tank is bare bottom. Stumped?

rjpotts · 12/30/2017, 09:23 AM

That is weird. If everything is clean, and the same fish, less one unfortunately, have been in there successfully for over a year then there is no good reason for this.
How much rock is in your DT?
Have you reduced feeding since you noticed bad things happening?
What are you feeding them?
Have you tested your new water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate?
I would still work on getting the salinity up.
I don't know your water storage setup, but I'd mix up some water at 1.025 and change a gallon or two every day until it comes up. Or even just top off with salt water instead of fresh until it comes up.
Are you using ro/di?

DesertReefT4r · 12/30/2017, 08:00 PM

What type of filteration are you running, any skimmer? I agree something is overwhelming the bactieria. Imo you have a large bio load for a tank that size.

mcgyvr · 12/31/2017, 07:41 AM

Test kit error IMO...

jobu28 · 12/31/2017, 09:19 AM

Everything is clean. Feeding are reduced to every other or every 3 days. I feed a few pieces of mysis and 3-4 silversides when i feed. I use RODI water. Skimmer was running. 32 balls of marine pure and 1 plate of marine pure. If this tank cant handle a few pieces of mysis and 3 silversides every other day then it will be coming down. Tests were confirmed by lfs.

jobu28 · 12/31/2017, 09:47 AM

And why aren't nitrates off the scale?

rjpotts · 12/31/2017, 02:26 PM

It's not necessarily the food you're putting in that is overwhelming the bacteria. Those fish produce a lot of waste, even when they're not eating.
Ammonia is being constantly added to the system through respiration alone.
Again, get your salinity up. Test your new water.
If you cleaned it as well as you say you did, one 50% w/c should cut your pollutants in half. I wouldn't go that big that fast if they are dangerously high, but you get the idea. Maybe 25% every 3 days until things are stable.
The bacteria ARE turning nitrite into nitrate. But for some reason they can't do it fast enough.
What are your nitrate levels?

jobu28 · 01/01/2018, 10:48 AM

Did a 20g water change yesterday. Salinity to 1.020. Will slowly get it up. Took out all display rocks again and rinsed in tank water. Almost no detritus at all came off.
PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 2.0, Nitrate around 50. Same levels as 2 weeks ago.

kurt_n · 01/02/2018, 11:47 PM

Test your new salt water, if you haven't done so already. I'm guessing you're putting nitrites and nitrates in with every water change. Are you using RO or RO/DI water? You've mentioned both in your responses.

12/29/2017, 09:53 PM	#1
jobu28 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NY Posts: 106	Cycling Help Needed on Established Tank! I have a Red Sea Reefer 250. I have had it set up for about 1.5 years as a FO system. I have 1 small eel, 2 small lionfish and an angel. The tank ran good for over a year with all good numbers in the beginning. Some time ago(to be honest i stopped testing after it was set up for some time) it must have went out of cycle. Then I lost a fish, so first thing i did was test it. Tank has high nitrites that wont convert? Cleaned out all the detritis i could find. I have "Real Reef" rock in the display part and the sump filled with "marine pure". Salinity 1.1018, Ph 8.5, temp 77. Any thoughts on why this tank went out of cycle and now wont recycle? Its been weeks that I've been monitoring it. Numbers just stay the same and emperor looks like hell. Thanks

12/30/2017, 08:00 PM	#7
DesertReefT4r Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Mesa Az Posts: 771	What type of filteration are you running, any skimmer? I agree something is overwhelming the bactieria. Imo you have a large bio load for a tank that size. __________________ Tank history 29g tropical ,55g cichlid tank, 20H softy reef, 29g mixed reef, 20H brackish goby & puffer tank, 55g mixed reef, 6g Nanocube softy lps reef, 40B sps reef, 75g sps reef, 75g sps reef in bu Current Tank Info: 75g sps reef build in the works.

12/31/2017, 07:41 AM	#8
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Test kit error IMO... __________________ Who me?

12/29/2017, 10:11 PM	#2
rjpotts Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 45	Assuming 1.1018 is a typo, and you really meant 1.018. How high is high on your nitrates? How old is the test kit? Last time you calibrated whatever you're using to measure salinity? Are you sure the temperature is what your thermometer is telling you it is? What do you mean by "nitrates won't convert"? How many water changes have you done since problems arose? How big were those water changes? Does your new water contain high nitrates/phosphates? If, in fact your salinity is 1.018, I'd try and get it up to at least 1.021, if not closer to 1.025. Hyposalinity will make fish look rough. Is there measurable ammonia or nitrite?

12/29/2017, 10:32 PM	#3
jobu28 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NY Posts: 106	Nitrites are the problem. Wont convert to Nitrates. Yes, sorry, 1.018. Nitrite around 5.0 Calibrated recently. Use my refractometer, a milwaukee salinity tester, and brought to my LFS who tested water and cam out with all the same results. Confident on temps. Nitrites wont convert to nitrates. Just staying the same for weeks. I have done several water changes from 40 gal to 10 gallons over various weeks RO water was used. No measurable ammonia. High Nitrites

12/29/2017, 11:24 PM	#4
rjpotts Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 45	Ah, misread that. Sorry. The bacteria is definitely converting nitrite to nitrate, there really isn't a way to stop that from happening. If it wasn't converting at all, you wouldn't have nitrite, only ammonia. So something is overwhelming the bacteria. Is something rotting somewhere that you can't access, or haven't?

12/30/2017, 08:24 AM	#5
jobu28 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NY Posts: 106	Yea, not sure why not converting to nitrate. Maybe marine pure isnt the answer? I dont belive anything is rotting. I took out all media, rock etc, and washed in tank water. cleaned up sump, tank is bare bottom. Stumped?

12/30/2017, 09:23 AM	#6
rjpotts Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 45	That is weird. If everything is clean, and the same fish, less one unfortunately, have been in there successfully for over a year then there is no good reason for this. How much rock is in your DT? Have you reduced feeding since you noticed bad things happening? What are you feeding them? Have you tested your new water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? I would still work on getting the salinity up. I don't know your water storage setup, but I'd mix up some water at 1.025 and change a gallon or two every day until it comes up. Or even just top off with salt water instead of fresh until it comes up. Are you using ro/di?

12/31/2017, 09:19 AM	#9
jobu28 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NY Posts: 106	Everything is clean. Feeding are reduced to every other or every 3 days. I feed a few pieces of mysis and 3-4 silversides when i feed. I use RODI water. Skimmer was running. 32 balls of marine pure and 1 plate of marine pure. If this tank cant handle a few pieces of mysis and 3 silversides every other day then it will be coming down. Tests were confirmed by lfs.

12/31/2017, 09:47 AM	#10
jobu28 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NY Posts: 106	And why aren't nitrates off the scale?

12/31/2017, 02:26 PM	#11
rjpotts Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 45	It's not necessarily the food you're putting in that is overwhelming the bacteria. Those fish produce a lot of waste, even when they're not eating. Ammonia is being constantly added to the system through respiration alone. Again, get your salinity up. Test your new water. If you cleaned it as well as you say you did, one 50% w/c should cut your pollutants in half. I wouldn't go that big that fast if they are dangerously high, but you get the idea. Maybe 25% every 3 days until things are stable. The bacteria ARE turning nitrite into nitrate. But for some reason they can't do it fast enough. What are your nitrate levels?

01/01/2018, 10:48 AM	#12
jobu28 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NY Posts: 106	Did a 20g water change yesterday. Salinity to 1.020. Will slowly get it up. Took out all display rocks again and rinsed in tank water. Almost no detritus at all came off. PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 2.0, Nitrate around 50. Same levels as 2 weeks ago.

01/02/2018, 11:47 PM	#13
kurt_n Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: WA Posts: 2,592	Test your new salt water, if you haven't done so already. I'm guessing you're putting nitrites and nitrates in with every water change. Are you using RO or RO/DI water? You've mentioned both in your responses.