Have ICH looky here!!!!!

[norgemorir]

I recently had a heater stop working and the temp dropped to ~71 or so for a unknown period (couldn't have been longer than 6hrs). I got the temp back up to 75 pretty within 2hrs of noticing and am trying to get it back to normal.

I haven't added anything other than a few more janitors in the last month but now my royal blenny has started swimming erratically every once in a while including trying to rub on the rock. I don't see any spots, but maybe a slight discoloration on 1 fin.

The rest of the fish seem unchanged and they all eat like normal.

Of course I absolutely dread getting ich and fear the worst. How long should I monitor before QT'ing?

[WaterKeeper]

At least another day or two. Cool temps don't cause ich but they can cause problems with a fishes swim bladder. It wasn't that cold so I'd just maintain a wait and see attitude right now.

[norgemorir]

Thanks for the quick reply! I'll watch him closely for the next few days and pray i can avoid the ordeal.

[WaterKeeper]

Good Luck.

[SaltyDr]

How long into treatment with copper should the external evidence (white spots) of ich be no longer apparent? After 4 days of treatment with copper my Royal gramma is spot free! Now only 4-6 weeks more of treatment!

[WaterKeeper]

The Cryptocaryon parasite goes through stages. The stage where it hosts on the fish is short lived. Don't be lulled into thinking it is gone because there are no spots. The tomites that infect a fish will still be there, Keep up the quarantine for the full four weeks or you will have the disease reappear.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by SaltyDr
How long into treatment with copper should the external evidence (white spots) of ich be no longer apparent? After 4 days of treatment with copper my Royal gramma is spot free! Now only 4-6 weeks more of treatment!

I was under the assumption that the copper treatment itself was for two weeks, then a water change, then followed by further observations in the qt tank.
This could be what you mean--just checking

[SaltyDr]

Yes, I plan on treating with copper for atleast 4 weeks with another 2 weeks or so of observation. So, which phase of the lifecycle is affected by copper? Also, I bought a Redsea copper kit which contained the test kit as well as copper sulfate for treatment. I didn't realize that it had this so I also bought cupramine. Cupramine wants you to get to 0.5 ppm while the Cu sulfate 0.3 ppm. Why the difference?

[WaterKeeper]

Copper kills the free swimming tomite stage. Cupramine is an organic, chelated form of copper and is said to be less toxic that the inorganic salts, hence the higher dosage rate.

[KingHippoTang]

Hello i am new to this site but not the hobby. My advise is for every 30 gallons of a tank that has ich buy 2 cleaner shrimp they do the best job at clearing that and then you dont have to dose your tank with any meds which even if they say coral friendly please do not believe the label. some do have ingredients that will not directly harm your delicate plants but may change your levels in tank enviroment ,in essence can be deadly.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by KingHippoTang
Hello i am new to this site but not the hobby. My advise is for every 30 gallons of a tank that has ich buy 2 cleaner shrimp they do the best job at clearing that and then you dont have to dose your tank with any meds which even if they say coral friendly please do not believe the label. some do have ingredients that will not directly harm your delicate plants but may change your levels in tank enviroment ,in essence can be deadly.

To Reef Central

The overall concept of this thread is not to have to dose your tank by the use of a quarantine tank for all fish purchases and or the use of a qt for medicating and observational purchases--which is kinda of what you are stating indirectly.

[KingHippoTang]

Yes i read and saw that you members were talking about qt, i gave up that aproach as i only buy from people i know so i get the real low down if they had an issue with thier specimens.... i stoped qt because i found that i have not had a issue period since i put my cleanershrimp in my tank only sign i ever see of ich is when i switch things over due to stress but one day later its gone. i used to use the qt tank and believe most should do it that way but not for me anymore i havent lost a fish in 2years also i never buy from stores such as any that start with pet in the name lol like the two main ones if you get where im going i dont want to tarnish thier names on net out right lol nothing doesw well that you purchase from them..

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by KingHippoTang
Yes i read and saw that you members were talking about qt, i gave up that aproach as i only buy from people i know so i get the real low down if they had an issue with thier specimens.... i stoped qt because i found that i have not had a issue period since i put my cleanershrimp in my tank only sign i ever see of ich is when i switch things over due to stress but one day later its gone. i used to use the qt tank and believe most should do it that way but not for me anymore i havent lost a fish in 2years also i never buy from stores such as any that start with pet in the name lol like the two main ones if you get where im going i dont want to tarnish thier names on net out right lol nothing doesw well that you purchase from them..

I agree with you--knowing and trusting an LFS is a good thing--I've bot all my fish from two places and they have never had ich--but I still qt

[jenglish]

Originally posted by KingHippoTang
Yes i read and saw that you members were talking about qt, i gave up that aproach as i only buy from people i know so i get the real low down if they had an issue with thier specimens.... i stoped qt because i found that i have not had a issue period since i put my cleanershrimp in my tank only sign i ever see of ich is when i switch things over due to stress but one day later its gone. i used to use the qt tank and believe most should do it that way but not for me anymore i havent lost a fish in 2years also i never buy from stores such as any that start with pet in the name lol like the two main ones if you get where im going i dont want to tarnish thier names on net out right lol nothing doesw well that you purchase from them..

well, theres no real reason to QT new specimens if you already have ich in your tank. There are kind of 2 different schools of thought on ich in the hobby. 1 is that everybody has ich and it is no big deal as long as you keep your fish healthy enough to fight it off. the other is that it is better to get rid of it so it is not constantly afflicting your fish and any stress to the system can result in a sudden downturn. I am of the opinion that cleaner shrimps and wrasses do nothing in relation to ich due to ich being under the slime coat where cleaners cannot get them. I think that when people introduce cleaners and then the visible ich disapears it is just the result of the fish developing partial immunity to that strain and keeping it subdued. Thats JMHO and I'm no biologist.

[spicy]

Dammmmmmmmmm i got ich Againnnnnnn
white spotsssssssssss
can't take the fish out and can't put the medicine i have in the tank mashroom,soft coral,polypes,Carpet anymon......yellow angel fish,clown tang,goopy...what should i do ......?????the fish has white spotssss

[loyalrogue]

Of course they have white spots... what did you expect?
All your fish died 2 weeks ago from an infected tank.
It takes 4-6 weeks for all the Ich or Velvet to die-off in a FISHLESS tank.
Why did you buy more fish after only two weeks and put them in a tank that you know to be infected?!?
People are trying to help you but you are ignoring their advice.

For less than the cost of one of those fish you could have setup a 10gal quarantine tank with a sponge filter and hypo'd all your new fish to avoid this problem in the future.

Either catch the fish and treat them properly or wait to see if they die.
I wish them luck.

[WaterKeeper]

Hey, keep it nice in here. Removing fish is always a problem when moving them to hospital tank. You can set up a fish trap by taking a 2 litre coke bottle and pushing the neck back into the body and baiting it. Draining the tank is also an option, If the fish are really ill then netting will work as they tend to be slow.

No matter what; getting them into treatment as soon as possible will help insure their survival.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by spicy
Dammmmmmmmmm i got ich Againnnnnnn
white spotsssssssssss
can't take the fish out and can't put the medicine i have in the tank mashroom,soft coral,polypes,Carpet anymon......yellow angel fish,clown tang,goopy...what should i do ......?????the fish has white spotssss

as waterkeeper suggested--you have to remove those fish and let the display tank run fallow for six weeks.

here is a blog on how to remove fish:

http://www.reefcentral.com/wp/?p=318

but draining the tank even half way until you can catch them often is the best choice

[WaterKeeper]

There is nothing like starting out a new year with the warm company of a free swimming, parasitic ciliate in your tank.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by WaterKeeper
There is nothing like starting out a new year with the warm company of a free swimming, parasitic ciliate in your tank.

we call those relatives in Canada

[Radicaljbr]

Waterkeeper,

Please forgive me if you covered this already. I read through pretty fast and might have missed this.

I had ich one time a few years ago and I think someone suggested Garlic drops of the course of a couple of weeks. I did this and my ich went bye bye.

Every hear of this or am I thinking of something else?

[WaterKeeper]

Garlic? Sure have and it still is a current fad. I use the word fad because there is no evidence that garlic does a thing for ich. Some, like yourself, report that ich clears up after garlic treatment. From what I know about it you could have fed the fish sushi and it may have also gone away. Not all cases are fatal. They go away without treatment, as was adamantly pointed out last month. The downside is that not all infections take that positive route and one ends up with a tank full of dead fish. That is the purpose of this thread. The treatments posted in the first thread do combat ich and velvet. Do they always work? Heck no; in an advanced case little will save the infected fish, Do they "stress" the fish? Sure they do but not as much as the parasite does and not as much as if the fish goes untreated.

[Radicaljbr]

Thanks Tom, It had been a while but thought that is what I tried. I was new at the time and I might have been very lucky with it or perhaps it went away on its own.

You have answered my early questions when I first started and I always suggested you write a book for beginners as I know I would have bought it. I am sure no body ever told you that so I get half the royalties.



You know when you hear people scream "You're the Man"? Well that first started with you and not others like Tiger Woods!!

Thanks for everything!!!

[WaterKeeper]

[jenglish]

Allicin a compound found in garlic has some support in literature as having some anti parasitic qualities. These studies are far from conclusive and at its best its still sort of a sprite, dayquil and chicken noodle soup kind of answer. It absolutely will not cure your fish but it may help them fight off the infection at the time. Basically the purposed mechanisms are that allicin may boost immunoresponse and it may also be exuded from tissue making it less desireable food for a parasite. It should also be noted these studies are not done w/ garlic but with allicin alone. I personally mince garlic into my fish food as it may help but I really don't think it hurts. Besides the little boogers seem to like it.