Bubble King Skimmer Club

[slief]

Originally Posted by ksed

is there anyway of finding out if he thinks this is a good idea. Or are there disadvantages to that grid impeller.

As it turns out, that is a prototype of a high airflow/SCFH impeller. It's not designed for the smaller pumps as it's a fairly large impeller which is hard to judge from the pictures. It could be something that is included in a future skimmer pump designed for larger skimmers but has no practical use in the current skimmer pumps which are already very well balanced and produced more than enough airflow.

[jshepherd]

Quick question while this sm200 breaks in.

Should the ozone port be left open? Mine did not come with any hose or block off plug.

Can the 32mm silicone tube that connects the pump to the body be shortened to save some space? I could always get a replacement and try both ways unless someone knows for sure.

[ksed]

Thanks,

I just would have thought it would give the ATI powercone a run for its air numbers.

Originally Posted by slief

As it turns out, that is a prototype of a high airflow/SCFH impeller. It's not designed for the smaller pumps as it's a fairly large impeller which is hard to judge from the pictures. It could be something that is included in a future skimmer pump designed for larger skimmers but has no practical use in the current skimmer pumps which are already very well balanced and produced more than enough airflow.

[slief]

Originally Posted by jshepherd

Quick question while this sm200 breaks in.

Should the ozone port be left open? Mine did not come with any hose or block off plug.

Can the 32mm silicone tube that connects the pump to the body be shortened to save some space? I could always get a replacement and try both ways unless someone knows for sure.

The ozone port should be blocked off. There is typically a small rubber cap that is included with the skimmer. You can go to pep boys and get vacuum line cap and place it over the nipple that is next to the stand pipe. Those vacuum line caps come in a small pack with a bunch of different sizes.

As for shortening the 32mm tube, you could but you might cause some turbulence. If you have the space, I would leave it as is.

Originally Posted by ksed

Thanks,

I just would have thought it would give the ATI powercone a run for its air numbers.

I'm not familiar with the airflow rate/SCFH of the power cone but more air isn't necasarily a good thing. It's all about balance between skimmer size, water flow and air volume. Adding more air often cause the bubbles to burst prematurely instead of creating foam and it can also cause turbulence in the skimmer body. More air can also cause the bubbles to rise too quickly which decrease contact time and doesn't promote the bonding of proteins to the bubbles as efficiently.

Again, it's about balance and if the BK's needed more air, it would have been designed into the product. The Red Dragon skimmer pumps have long been coveted as arguably the best skimmer pumps on the market. This isn't just because of their reliability either. It's due in large part because of the quality of foam that they generate.

Looking back at the Askoll pumps with the adjustable volute, you could pump a lot of air into the skimmer by opening the volute as far as you wanted but there is a point where too much air sacrifices performance. The RD3 skimmer pumps on the other hand offer the perfect balance between water flow and air injection without having the mess with the volute. Best of all is that you can increase the flow of both with the push of a button until your hearts content and I'd bet at peak power, the RD3's would run circles around the power cone both in peformance and air draw. At the end of the day though, I don't know anybody that would run the RD3 skimmer pump at full power or anywhere near it on most of skimmers simply because you reach a point of diminishing returns where the skimmers foam making ability drops off.

In my mind, SCFH is more about bragging rights than it is about performance when it comes to protein skimmers. High SCFH doesn't equal optimal skimmer performance. Optimal skimmer performance is acheived by a great skimmer body design coupled with a great pump that offers the best balance between water flow and SCFH and does so without creating a excessive turbulence. This applies to all skimmer designs from recirculating ones to Beckett skimmers etc. It's all about balance and just because you have overly high SCFH doesn't mean your skimmer will perform worth a damn.

On that note, you have me contemplating digging for my Dwyer meter just so I can pull some SCFH numbers off my RD3. I'd bet you would be very surprised what kind of numbers that pump could pull down. I'm heading to Houston tomorrow for a few days but when I go out into my shed later today, I will look in my drawers and see if I can find it and if I can, I might just connect it to my skimmer for kicks and giggles.

[ksed]

I agree with balance. The powercone provides 3000l/a in a 250 body.I assume they would sacrifice water flow in that volume.

[slief]

Originally Posted by ksed

Thanks,

I just would have thought it would give the ATI powercone a run for its air numbers.

I just looked up the Powercone specs. They are touting 800GPH of air flow which I think works out to is about 106 SCFH. I find that kind of suspect. The only way I can see that being possible is if the pump is out of water and sucking air and this assuming that the pump is even capable of 800GPH.. Maybe I am wrong though. I'd bet the RD3 and even the comparable Askoll based pump with the adjustable volute would pull just as much if not more air than than the Powercones pump although I still think it's meaningless for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post.

That said, I did find one of my Dwyer meters but it's WAY too small for this application. I think this one was for a Co2 regulator. My RD3 running at 37 watts pegged the ball at the top of the meter the second I hooked it up which I expected given this meters size. I think I have a much larger Dwyer meter around that I used for a beckett skimmer and a mezzei injected skimmer but I have no idea where it is right now.

I will look some more as I am now kind of curious about the SCFH despite it not really being a concern given the great perfomance of my Supermarin 250.

This is the one I found.. Clearly not up for the task.

[SchnitzelReef]

Originally Posted by slief

Double Cone 250. Your tank is on the small/minium side for that skimmer. Especially given that you have what I would consider to be a really light load for your display size. That kind of explains why you have been running it so deep. Are you running around 1.025-1.026 salinity?

Given your current load, you pobably do have much of a choice. You could increase the flow into the pump a bit but 37ish watts seems to produce the best foam in that skimmer. Incresing the power a bit might help. You may not have a choice but to run it deep or increase your load.

Seems like lowering the skimmer a bit, and upping the wattage from 36 to 37 made a difference. I'm getting a more consistent foam that overflows nicely into the collection cup.

[slief]

Originally Posted by SchnitzelReef

Seems like lowering the skimmer a bit, and upping the wattage from 36 to 37 made a difference. I'm getting a more consistent foam that overflows nicely into the collection cup.

That does look like good foam. Increasing the pump output increases the flow and air into the skimmer which will help compensate for lowing the sump level. As such, you could reduce the skimmer depth more but would have to increase the power and there is no point in wasting electricity. As such, you are probably just as well leaving it as is.

[SchnitzelReef]

Originally Posted by slief

That does look like good foam. Increasing the pump output increases the flow and air into the skimmer which will help compensate for lowing the sump level. As such, you could reduce the skimmer depth more but would have to increase the power and there is no point in wasting electricity. As such, you are probably just as well leaving it as is.

Skimmer def seems to be working better since those minor adjustments.

[jrizo1]

I am looking for a skimmer for my Broodstock clownfish tank
the system has 10 pair of adult fish (20 fish) and they get feed about 3-4 times a day
the system total volume is about 130 gallons
I am thinking:
Bubble King® Double Cone 180 + RD3 Speedy

open to any other suggestions
thanks

[jshepherd]

Nearing 2 weeks on the Sm200. I have not bothered to try and adjust it much.

I am running at 41 watts right now and this pic was today. I am not understanding watts vs how closed the output is. Any help is appreciated, it is an expensive skimmer and I want to maximize it.

Overall the build quality is excellent. The weight alone is a huge difference over my xp2000.

[slief]

Originally Posted by jrizo1

I am looking for a skimmer for my Broodstock clownfish tank
the system has 10 pair of adult fish (20 fish) and they get feed about 3-4 times a day
the system total volume is about 130 gallons
I am thinking:
Bubble King® Double Cone 180 + RD3 Speedy

open to any other suggestions
thanks

What is the display size?? A Double Cone 180 should be OK although it might be slightly oversized but should be fine.

[slief]

Originally Posted by jshepherd

Nearing 2 weeks on the Sm200. I have not bothered to try and adjust it much.

I am running at 41 watts right now and this pic was today. I am not understanding watts vs how closed the output is. Any help is appreciated, it is an expensive skimmer and I want to maximize it.

Overall the build quality is excellent. The weight alone is a huge difference over my xp2000.

Not sure what you are asking regarding watts vs the output being closed. One thing really has nothing to do with the other. If you are having to close the output (wege pipe) a lot, you need to increase the sump depth. The idea is to dial the sump depth in as much as possible with the wedge pipe wide open. You should never really need to close the wedge pipe much if your sump level is dialed in. Also, I think 41 watts is on the high side. I run my SM250 at about 37 watts. If I were you, I'd dial the pump back a bit (36-37 watts is where I would start), open the wedge pipe all the way and let the skimmer settle in for a couple hours and see where the water level in the skimmer is. If you are pushing foam up into the neck and up to the top of it, leave it alone. If you aren't, then raise the sump depth slightly until the foam is reaching the top of the skimmer neck. You only want to use the wedge pipe to fine tune the foam height in the skimmer neck and if your sump level is dialed in for the skimmer, then you should never need to close the wedge more than 1/4 of the way.

[jrizo1]

Originally Posted by slief

What is the display size?? A Double Cone 180 should be OK although it might be slightly oversized but should be fine.

the display is 100gallons the sump has about 30 gallons of water
thanks

[sensei]

Scott,

I have asked you a couple of questions before.
I am planing a 470gal Display tank with a seahorse refugium of 90gal and a 120 gal sump.
I was planning to get a supermarine 250 + RD3, but I have been reading recently that some people use 2 skimmers of large systems, and some of them say combine one for wet skimming and one for dry skimming. I think it may be a good idea plus you get the added protection of redundancy in case one stops working.
What do you think?
which would be the one recomended for dry skiming to be with the supermarine in same sump?

thanks for your answer

[slief]

Originally Posted by jrizo1

the display is 100gallons the sump has about 30 gallons of water
thanks

You are at the low end for the DC180 but still within it's range and still to large for the Double Cone 150. I think you will be fine.

[slief]

Originally Posted by sensei

Scott,

I have asked you a couple of questions before.
I am planing a 470gal Display tank with a seahorse refugium of 90gal and a 120 gal sump.
I was planning to get a supermarine 250 + RD3, but I have been reading recently that some people use 2 skimmers of large systems, and some of them say combine one for wet skimming and one for dry skimming. I think it may be a good idea plus you get the added protection of redundancy in case one stops working.
What do you think?
which would be the one recomended for dry skiming to be with the supermarine in same sump?

thanks for your answer

if you were to go with 2 skimmers, you would want two smaller skimmers. Frankly, I think it's a bit of a waste of space and money. The SM250 would be a great skimmer on your system and would work wonderfully in removing dissolved organics from your system and do just as well as having 2 skimmers. Dry skimming won't remove any more DOC's than wet skimming in fact, wet skimming will do a more efficient job at removing the waste. As such, I personally would stick with the 1 SM250.

[sensei]

Originally Posted by slief

if you were to go with 2 skimmers, you would want two smaller skimmers. Frankly, I think it's a bit of a waste of space and money. The SM250 would be a great skimmer on your system and would work wonderfully in removing dissolved organics from your system and do just as well as having 2 skimmers. Dry skimming won't remove any more DOC's than wet skimming in fact, wet skimming will do a more efficient job at removing the waste. As such, I personally would stick with the 1 SM250.

Thanks Scoot,

can you tell me wha is the advantange of the RD3 speedy pump in the BK skimmer? Is it to regulate the flow of air so that you can have a consistent skimming depending in the waste level in your aquarium??

thanks again

[slief]

Originally Posted by sensei

Thanks Scoot,

can you tell me wha is the advantange of the RD3 speedy pump in the BK skimmer? Is it to regulate the flow of air so that you can have a consistent skimming depending in the waste level in your aquarium??

thanks again

The RD3 makes dialing in the skimmer much easier. With the original Red Dragons, you had an adjustable volute that allowed you to vary the air going into the pump. Minor adjustments made a big difference one way or another but make fine tuning much more cumbersome. The disadvantage beyond just the fiddling with the volute to get things tuned is that you are adjusting the air but not the water flow which can be problematic in conditions that vary from tank to tank. With the RD3, you adjust the flow and air ratio with the push of a button. The fact that you are adjust both at the same time makes for a much more balanced pump/skimmer. The RD3 is also much more efficient. Even though most of the skimmers include the 50 RD3 watt pump, you will never need to run it that high. I run a Supermarin with an RD3 and it's sweet spot is 37 watts. Also, unlike the other DC based skimmers on the market that only offer a few settings to control the flow, the RD3 has something like 50 steps which really gives you a great ability to fine tune for your tanks environment/DOC levels.

Having run Royal Exclusiv skimmers for many years and used both the Red Dragon 1's and the RD3, I much prefer the ease of use and fine tuning simplicity of the RD3. At the heart of every great skimmer is the pump and the RD3 is a no compromise solution that makes a great skimmer even better and easier to setup and get running to the best of it's capabilities. Given what I have personally experienced with these skimmers and mind you, I paid for my skimmer at retail prices long before I joined the RE team, I would do it all over again. The RD3 is a terrific pump and really worth it's weight in gold. It's also dead silent and extremely well built. if you have ever had your hands on one of those cheap Chinese DC pumps and then pick up an RD3, you will immediately notice the difference in quality and weight. The RD3's are solid built, heavy and made of high quality material unlike the cheap Chinese counterparts. This is no knock on the standard Red Dragons (not Chinese made either) because they are in fact great pumps and aren't comparable to the cheap pumps on the market but the RD3 raises the bar and makes these skimmer even better.

[alin2]

Okay, any help would be greatly appreciated with this unusual situation.

My build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...highlight=elos

I purchased a BK SM 200 in 2011 or 2012 when I thought I was going to reboot my tank. I never did. And, the SM 200 sat on a shelf never plugged in.

Fast forward to 2015, and my Elos reboot is finally almost completed. I went with a Dreambox sump but decided to use my SM200 as it's essentially brand "new" and never used.

When I plugged it in...nothing.

My questions are:

1. I assume I should take the pump apart and clean it and see if anything has seized in it over the years without use. Hopefully this will jump start it.

2. If that doesn't work, I guess I could replace the pump block which as a 138/1-2 part number on a laminated card that came with the pump. Is this available?

3. Is it possible to just purchase the RD3 50 watt adjustable DC pump that now comes with the BK 200 SM and connect that to the skimmer body as an "upgrade?"

[craigvh]

Hi. I need some advice. I have a 300g display with another 300g in my fish room. The display has about 7 fish with two of them being 14"+ tangs. I have one dc-250 which has been in the system since I built it last year. My nitrates are very high. I would like to add a sm-250. What are your thoughts?

[cruzo]

Can anyone give me the actual dimensions for the SN 143 and 123? I know they are on the site, but I just wanted to get some real world numbers. I currently have an SC Aquarium sump with the SCA-301 and I was thinking of upgrading to a Skimz. Would it actually be an upgrade? this is for a 50 cube mixed reef. And the water level in the sump is around 6.5" and I cannot adjust it.

Thanks
Orlando

[slief]

Originally Posted by alin2

Okay, any help would be greatly appreciated with this unusual situation.

My build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...highlight=elos

I purchased a BK SM 200 in 2011 or 2012 when I thought I was going to reboot my tank. I never did. And, the SM 200 sat on a shelf never plugged in.

Fast forward to 2015, and my Elos reboot is finally almost completed. I went with a Dreambox sump but decided to use my SM200 as it's essentially brand "new" and never used.

When I plugged it in...nothing.

My questions are:

1. I assume I should take the pump apart and clean it and see if anything has seized in it over the years without use. Hopefully this will jump start it.

2. If that doesn't work, I guess I could replace the pump block which as a 138/1-2 part number on a laminated card that came with the pump. Is this available?

3. Is it possible to just purchase the RD3 50 watt adjustable DC pump that now comes with the BK 200 SM and connect that to the skimmer body as an "upgrade?"

I would definitely take the pump apart and check everything first and give it a good vinegar bath if needed. If it sat that long, the bearing at the base of the impeller could be froze to the shaft in which case, it should come apart after a good soak in vinegar. Those blocks are generally pretty bullet proof when taken care of so a good vinegar bath and cleaning may just do the trick.

You could upgrade to the new RD3 50 but it would have to be the correct RD3 because there are different bases for different models. This would be the correct one.. They are also available from our dealers and if we don't have any left, we will have more arriving in a week.

As for the original motor block should you decide to go that route, they should be in stock in Ft. Myers or can be special order from one of the dealers.

[slief]

Originally Posted by craigvh

Hi. I need some advice. I have a 300g display with another 300g in my fish room. The display has about 7 fish with two of them being 14"+ tangs. I have one dc-250 which has been in the system since I built it last year. My nitrates are very high. I would like to add a sm-250. What are your thoughts?

I think the SM250 would be perfect. I run one of my 480G display with 60 fish. Several of which are 8" or so. My system is about 650G total. I feed heavily and that skimmer does a great job and is very consistent. I have no detectable nitrates what so ever.

That said, I can't help but wonder if other issues are contributing to your nitrate issue. Lots of live rock is important as it gives bacterial surface. I have several hundred pounds of live rock in my system, a deep sand bed in one of my two refugiums. I also run filter socks which are changed out every 7-10 days. The key is not only removing dissolved solids but also enough surface for denitrifying bacteria. I am a big believer in the importance of that. With or without an absence of that, macro algae can also help in exporting nutrients. There is also flow in the display. If waste and detritus is collecting in your display, sand bed or even sump you will have nitrate issues. So while adding a more appropriately sized and capable skimmer will help, it may only be part of the solution.

[craigvh]

That said, I can't help but wonder if other issues are contributing to your nitrate issue. Lots of live rock is important as it gives bacterial surface. I have several hundred pounds of live rock in my system, a deep sand bed in one of my two refugiums. I also run filter socks which are changed out every 7-10 days. The key is not only removing dissolved solids but also enough surface for denitrifying bacteria. I am a big believer in the importance of that. With or without an absence of that, macro algae can also help in exporting nutrients. There is also flow in the display. If waste and detritus is collecting in your display, sand bed or even sump you will have nitrate issues. So while adding a more appropriately sized and capable skimmer will help, it may only be part of the solution.[/QUOTE]

I have 6 (7x16) socks and 2 mp60 vortechs for flow in the display. I only about 155lbs of rock. Which I agree with you is probably at least 1/2 of what I should have. Chaeto is on the way. If I wanted to add another skimmer would you suggest the dc-250 or a sm250? Thanks