Lanthanum chloride

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally posted by Paul_PSU
the phosphate remover came with a trial bottle of Natural Clarifier. I wonder if this would work on aquariums also. Here is the info on it: http://www.waterwarehouse.com/pdfs/2984.pdf It is all natural and the major active ingredient is chitosan which is the structural element in the exoskeleton of crustaceans. Here is an article on it where someone actually drinks some to show how harmless it is: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...lreport23.html

Hi, Paul.
I believe that I once met you at a NCPARS meet.
Most of the Lanthanum chloride sold for pools/spas comes with a bottle of clarifier. Since an aquarium will clear up on it's own after an aggresive Lanthanum dosing I don't use the clarifier. Maybe this deserves more research.

[Paul_PSU]

Gary,
Definitely wasn't me since I've never been to a NCPARS meet. I would love to make it out to one of the frag swaps.
I see what you mean about the aquarium clearing up on it's own. Maybe it can make our filter systems more efficient with its binding properties. I think after I get this hair algae under control with the phosphate remover I will try it out.

I put a brand new filter sock on my overflow in the sump before I started the initial dose and 3 hours later the sock was overflowing but perfectly clean so I know it's binding to the sock.

[tmz]

Originally posted by melev
It looks like I may never have to use this stuff again, as my PO4 continues to measure at .03ppm using daily Vodka dosings.

Do you get that .03 with only vodka dosing for PO4 control or is ther some gfo in play?

[melev]

Originally posted by tmz
Do you get that .03 with only vodka dosing for PO4 control or is ther some gfo in play?

I haven't used GFO in over 7 months. And I've not used any Phosphate Control in 1.5 months.

Vodka only, baby.

[tmz]

Good to know Marc. Thanks

[teamdulski]

After using the 25 micron, I can sense why the 10 is so important. I bulk ordered 50 micron bags for the store (mix of 10 and 100's) anxious to try out the 10 and see the results.

[chrisguy]

I've joined the club. I've dozed 2x so far. This stuff drives my skimmer nuts. I have an MRC-2 and within seconds of adding, the skimmer fills the overflow container. I have found that a diluted solution added slower has less effect on the skimmer over a more concentrated solution.

Thanks all for posting this. I will continue a 2x per week maintenance, testing phosphates once per week to track reduction.

[Conesus_Kid]

Chris, which phosphate test are you using?

[KurtsReef]

My skimmer goes nuts (Especially if I add it directly into the skimmer), but I have not experienced the same gunking up of filter socks when using the Lanthanum Chloride. I wonder if that is because my phos is low to begin with?

Originally posted by melev
I haven't used GFO in over 7 months. And I've not used any Phosphate Control in 1.5 months.

Vodka only, baby.

My fish have been requesting this treatment

[tmz]

I think so Kurt. With less to take out it would certainly give you less gunk.

On the vodka and lanthanum chloride question,the following is my experience. I have been running gfo 700grms of it for the 575 gallons. I was only able to get PO4 to about .15 ppm. Every 5 days or so I would give it 10ml of lanthanum strained through filter floss to drop it under .1ppm. I started dosing a small amount of vodka 22 days ago(8 then 10ml per day). The PO4 dropped to .07ppm and has remained there for 20 days with no lanthanum use.

[KurtsReef]

Interesting.

Tom, do you see any difference in your SPS? Color or polyp extension?

Will have to pick up some Grey Goose on the way home...

[Reefski's]

itried the Vodka and was up to 60 ml on my 1500 gallon system with no reduction in phosphates.

the Lanthanum Chloride is working for me. i have gone from 0.72 to 0.07 in a few days.

what is the best online source for it in bulk? i have a feeling i will need to buy it in bulk. the little one ounce bottles are almost gone.

Carl

[SkiFletch]

Head over to your local swimming pool supply store Carl. I've been using the pool version for a long time now with no ill effects

[tmz]

Kurt, If you decide to try it ,use only a small amount about 1ml per 100g to start. A plain unflavored vodka is what you want.

[Conesus_Kid]

Double post

[Conesus_Kid]

FYI: Here is the MSDS for the Phos-free brand found at Leslies Pool Supply stores:

http://www.lesliesmsds.com/DocumentC...2-7fa992c31851

[SkiFletch]

Cool

[Creetin]

I asked about a similar product for aquariums in the chemistry forum, and was directed here.
Skimming thru this thread i found i was already using this stuff in my pool. LOL
It works great, I wrote it off as i thought it would in no way be safe for my reef. Guess not in controlled additions.
It does cloud up my pool, and strips the alk right out.
The clarifier here i don't think would be reefsafe, JMO
What it does in my pool is weigh the precipitate down so i can vacuume it out. Same stuff i use when i shock the pool to clean out the dead algae.
Now if you can keep it in suspension and use an earth filter. Oops not a pool here. (Diatom filter) That would work too if you had a bare bottom tank and had a lot of flow.

[Reefski's]

or you can drip it into a small micron size filter sock. i use a 5 micron sock.

then you can just take out the sock and wash it.

[Gary Majchrzak]

pix are worth at least a couple of words


*extremely low (to "no") phosphates in an aquarium that's obviously "overfed" (see livestock list)

*increased calcification rates seen in stony corals (do people use micrometers to measure growth rates?)

*improved water clarity (due to several factors using this method)

*no precip on glass (when using diluted LaCl2 in slow dosings)

the only negatives I've observed so far have been some minor reactions to heavier (milky) LaCl2 dosings by certain fishes, Tridacna and snails.

I'm currently thinking about replacing my 10 micron filters with 5 micron filters. This might improve the technique.

[Reefski's]

thank you for this information!

i like the idea of dripping it in and will start doing that.

i use a 5 micron sock. when i dose a lot it does cloud up the tank so i know it is not all getting abosebed in the sock even though the dose goes into the sock.

why do you think water clarity is improved?

what kind of reactions by livestock?

how often do you dose?

what is the maximum level of PO4 before you dose?

what do you dose to zero PO4. i read that on the reef PO4 levels are extremely low like 0.003ppm.

what do you use to measure PO4?

i know you probably aswered all these questions earlier in the thread and i have read most of it but i am getting old and forgetful.

a synopsis would be great.

i tried Vodka dosing and it didn't work for me. it was not until i started LC that my phosphates dropped and corals started to grow.

BEAUTIFUL PICTURE!

[Gary Majchrzak]

too many questions on a Sunday evening after some Labatt's

LaCl2 acts as a flocculent so it stands to reason that stuff in the water column "sticks" to it making it easier to adhere to a micron filter or protein skimmer bubble. (Simplistic terminology here-sorry!) This in turn improves water clarity. The results are amazing.

All the other questions were answered in this thread except how I measure PO4 levels:
I don't. (Not with any formal test kits, anyways.) I look at my aquarium and everything in it closely. (I know, I know... I'm nuts. Heard it all before. Some day I'll get the photometer thing.)

My dosing schedule is (now) basically once a week. The dosage I use (outlined earlier in this thread) should be cutting my PO4 levels in half each time I administer it.

[tmz]

Yep , nutrient levels in the upper reef are very low. Po4 in the .003ppm range or less , nitrates near zero. Neither is zero and neither depletes very much lower but remains constant even though it is taken up by corals which need some of it. 30 meters down the levels can be 3 to 5 times as high. So if you are running a mixed reef ultra low levels may be less than ideal . I test daily with a colorometer for PO4. It runs in my system between .04ppm and .07ppm. nitrates hold at between 2 and 4ppm per slaifiert tests.

As noted in an earlier post I use vodka,vinegar ,sugar as well as chaeto refugia and some gfo. I've used lanthanum before as well but have not had to use it since starting carbon dosing. LC works if you filter it well. The carbon dosing is laso holding nitrates down as well.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally Posted by Gary Majchrzak

My dosing schedule is (now) basically once a week. The dosage I use (outlined earlier in this thread) should be cutting my PO4 levels in half each time I administer it.

whoa! I'm no longer dosing this weekly. Once every two months is holding PO4 down to manageable levels

[radiata]

New Lanthanum Chloride article by Daniel Knop:
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/cont...ling-phosphate