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Unread 12/05/2018, 09:49 PM   #1
Jsilverman18
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Bean animal overflow help

I’m running the bean animal overflow.
I’m having some issues. I have the full siphon about 1/4 to 1/2” lower then the open channel. For some reason all the water is going doing the open channel like a Durso. I tried having the full siphon even lower like an 1”+ and had the same problem.
Plumbing is 1.5” pipe into 1” bulk head then I stepped it back up to 1.5”
I’m running a Vectra L1
Tomorrow I’m gonna try it even lower to see if that helps.


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Unread 12/06/2018, 05:51 AM   #2
mcgyvr
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How deep are the ends of the pipes submerged in the sump?
They should be no more than 1" max or the system won't purge air/start up properly.

Do you have a valve on the full siphon? Have you tried to adjust it.. It likely needs to be maybe 1/4 open (almost closed) with that size pipe/pump..

The open and full siphon can be at the same height and the system will work just fine.. No need to lower it..


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Unread 12/06/2018, 05:52 AM   #3
Grayhead
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Are you controlling the full siphon with a gate valve or ball valve? You have to control the flow on the primary siphon. It may mean dialing your pump back some as well.


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Unread 12/06/2018, 03:30 PM   #4
lapin
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I go with the mcgyvr solution:
How deep are the ends of the pipes submerged in the sump?
They should be no more than 1" max or the system won't purge air/start up properly.
Somehow air is trapped not letting water get thru before the open channel starts.


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Unread 12/15/2018, 09:43 PM   #5
Jsilverman18
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Thanks for the replies. I have the pipes only 1-2” under the water in the sump.

I have tried adjusting the full siphon. I’ve had it fully open and have adjusted all the way to closed.

I am using a gate valve.

For some reason no water is going down the full siphon. I put my hand under the drain and feel all the water coming through the open channel.

Right now the full siphon is just a little lower then the open channel.


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Unread 12/16/2018, 08:46 AM   #6
Vinny Kreyling
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I would fill the siphon pipe by hand to make sure there is no clog.


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Unread 12/16/2018, 08:53 AM   #7
Jsilverman18
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I will give that a try. I just ran the pipe so there shouldn’t be any clogs. All brand new PVC, bulk heads and gate valve


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Unread 12/16/2018, 09:01 AM   #8
eutimio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsilverman18 View Post
Thanks for the replies. I have the pipes only 1-2” under the water in the sump.

I have tried adjusting the full siphon. I’ve had it fully open and have adjusted all the way to closed.

I am using a gate valve.

For some reason no water is going down the full siphon. I put my hand under the drain and feel all the water coming through the open channel.

Right now the full siphon is just a little lower then the open channel.
What overflow do you have?
Make sure the U pipe inside the overflow is the right height for each drain.
Shortest for primary, little higher for secondary and the tallest for emergency.
Sounds like something is wrong with those pipes but I could be wrong.


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Unread 12/16/2018, 12:27 PM   #9
Jsilverman18
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Yep all are in correct height order. Full siphon is about 1/4 inch lower then open and emergency is highest


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Unread 12/16/2018, 12:52 PM   #10
eutimio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsilverman18 View Post
Yep all are in correct height order. Full siphon is about 1/4 inch lower then open and emergency is highest
Like others said, make sure the full siphon is only 1” in the water. Seems like you’re pretty close there.
Also, I’d try to block the secondary drain and see what happens if you get flow on the main and emergency.
If not, something is clogging the main . It’s nothing complicated, the water will find the least resistant path. That should be your main but sounds like it is blocked.


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Unread 12/22/2018, 09:52 PM   #11
Jsilverman18
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So I lowered the full siphon. The issue I am experiencing now is the water level in my overflow is going up and down. The water is also going down the open channel more then it should. I’ll keep trying to adjust the gate valve.


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Unread 12/24/2018, 08:54 PM   #12
Grayhead
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Do you have any horizontal runs in the main siphon?


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Unread 12/28/2018, 05:19 PM   #13
Meg rebreather
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Dis you find the problem ?


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Unread 01/08/2019, 10:05 PM   #14
Jsilverman18
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I think my problem is that I do have a horizontal run in my full siphon. My open channel is just a drop then into a 90 a run and then another 90 drop.

Full siphon is a drop 90 run 90 then a small run into another 90 and drop.
Any way I can salvage the setup and still run the bean animal or will I have to do it so there is no run?
[IMG][/IMG]


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Unread 01/09/2019, 05:54 AM   #15
mcgyvr
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The image posted should not be a problem.. The extra 90 jog is unlikely to be a real issue preventing proper operation..

I would start by making sure the exit of the full channel siphon is only 1/2" under the water (1-2" as you say could be a bit much).. It sounds like its just not capable of purging itself and going full siphon..

Also please get us images of the plumbing inside the overflow box..(start of bean drain)


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Unread 01/09/2019, 11:36 AM   #16
Jsilverman18
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[IMG][URL=http://s1252.photobucket.com/user/jsilverman181/media/2B9F9757-CF72-47A4-87F0-E8991F7F8B2D_zpsk4tmynur.jpeg.html][/URL[/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]


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Unread 01/11/2019, 11:38 PM   #17
Jsilverman18
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Will my current plumbing work for the bean animal?
Thanks


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Unread 01/12/2019, 07:48 AM   #18
mattgumaer
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I'm definitely not a 'bean animal' expert (or reef tank generally) but, I did drill my cube tank and put a bean animal in it so, I have some experience. It seems like you have a fundamental problem with your full siphon line. As I'm sure you know, the 'full siphon' is supposed to carry the vast majority of the water down to your sump. The open line is supposed to carry a tiny amount, while the emergency is just that, it stays dry absent a failure.

If you have a bunch of water coming down your open line with the full siphon gate valve fully open, you probably have one of three problems:

1) your return pump is pushing more water into the tank than your full siphon can handle (this is not normally a problem as far as I know); in this situation, your full siphon will be 'working' but, it will simply be unable to handle the flow;

2) where your full siphon line enters your sump, the pipe is too far down in the water; in order for the full siphon to 'form', the piping needs to purge itself of air; if the pipe is too far down into the water in the sump, the purging becomes more difficult because the air needs to be 'pushed' down through the water in the sump to clear the line; or

3) your pulling air into your full siphon line in the overflow box. In this case, your full siphon line is capable of purging itself of air at the bottom but, you're adding air back into the line at the top, breaking the full siphon (or not allowing it to form).

Note, it is also possible to have your full siphon gate valve open so far that a full siphon doesn't form depending on return pump flow but, this should send all water down your full siphon line, with the problem being noise from the gurgling due to the absence of the full siphon.

Based on the picture of your overflow box and the fact that the water is going up and down in the box, I think you likely have problem #3 above. Your full siphon line looks only marginally lower than the open line in the box and very high in the box generally. I think your full siphon is pulling air at the top, reducing flow, causing the box to fill higher. At this point, your full siphon line stops pulling air because of the higher water level in the box and a 'full siphon' actually forms. Now the capacity of the full siphon line greatly increases, pulling the water water inside the box down. As the water goes down, the full siphon line starts pulling air again, breaking the siphon, reducing the line's capacity and starting the process over again.

My suggested effort at a solution would be to take the elbows off your full siphon line inside your box (and probably on your open line as well) and put your full siphon line as low in the overflow box as possible to reduce the possibility of a vortex pulling air into the line.

If you're going to keep the elbows on your open line, I think you may need to drill a hole in the top and possibly add some airline tubing, like a durso.

FWIW, all three lines in my overflow are just open pipe lines. One benefit is that this allows me to see exactly what is happening with each line. One possible disadvantage is, with no strainer, there is some risk I suppose that some critter will find its way into a line and clog it.

I hope this all makes sense. Good luck.

Matt


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