Redemption - Page 3

Brock Fluharty · 08/26/2006, 06:55 PM

Umm...I think that Dwarf red tip hermits are the most aggressive. I think that whoever told you that the hermits were herbivores lied.

ALL hermits that I have mixed with nassarius snails have ended up eradicating the snails within a day. I would just stick to snails, but JMHO.

Wait until your tank is fully cycled to get your clean up crew.

pledosophy · 08/27/2006, 12:17 AM

IME scarlet reef hermits are the best and least aggressive.

whatnot45 · 08/27/2006, 05:29 PM

Ok I was just going by what Etropicals said on their little charts. they said that Scarlet reef hermits and dwarf red tip hermits were bothe peacful and herbiverouse. I will not get the dwarf ones, but i am still getting scarlets xD I DO NOT! wan any hair algea to come wreck the tank like it did last time

Sushi Roll · 08/27/2006, 07:48 PM

I'm confused. I've read every post in this thread and I don't understand why you are saying the hair algae wrecked your tank? I thought it was vibrio... does hair algae help facilitate vibrio or something?

Or are you just saying independent of your sea horses dying from vibrio, the hair algae grew all over your tank? I'm new to the aquarium hobby so please explain exactly what is wrong with hair algae. Thanks.

whatnot45 · 08/27/2006, 10:40 PM

Well Bothe Wrecked my tank. I originally set the tank up as a reef tank. It was an uber cool one too lol. I had a baby yellow tang, a pair of saddleback clown fish and a bubble anemone, and a dameselfish as well as WHOLE LOT of corals (SPS LPS Sponges and Gorgonians) Then, I got hair algea. The algea overran my corals to a point where I only had a couple zoos a bubble coral and a leather coral left. I litterally took the tank apart every weekend and scrubbed the rocks with a toothe brush to get the algea off. It did no good. Then, I decided to get seahorses. I sold my fish, anemone, and bubble coral. And got a pair of erectus. the hair algea stayed but it wasnt bothering me as much any more (i learned to live with it) Then the vibrio came, and that was the last straw. lol

Now here I am deciding on a new cleanup crew

whatnot45 · 08/29/2006, 11:39 PM

Ok The new 40 dollar light has been here for 5 days, and my calurpa is growing just as well with it as with my big T-5 one. So its going to stay!

nickterp · 08/30/2006, 12:08 PM

It seems like you may take things just a tiny bit too fast. Seahorses dying... buy more.... die buy more, etc. Definitely take your time this time around. Once you get your tank setup, let it cycle for a few weeks and stabilize. Then you can make sure you have everything under control before you try more seahorses.

As far as the hair algae, etc: I'm not sure if I read all your posts carefully, but you're using regular tap water with a conditioner?? I know some people do this succesfully, but I personally tested my tap water and its terrible. The phophates were off the charts and that can grow algae out of control.

You could buy your own RO/ID unit or just get RO/DI water from a LFS.

Again dude, take your time.. it may be that we are just misinterpreting your enthusiasm as impatience

, but either way rushing things will only lead to more problems.

Good luck!

whatnot45 · 08/30/2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nickterp
It seems like you may take things just a tiny bit too fast. Seahorses dying... buy more.... die buy more, etc. Definitely take your time this time around. Once you get your tank setup, let it cycle for a few weeks and stabilize. Then you can make sure you have everything under control before you try more seahorses.

As far as the hair algae, etc: I'm not sure if I read all your posts carefully, but you're using regular tap water with a conditioner?? I know some people do this succesfully, but I personally tested my tap water and its terrible. The phophates were off the charts and that can grow algae out of control.

You could buy your own RO/ID unit or just get RO/DI water from a LFS.

Again dude, take your time.. it may be that we are just misinterpreting your enthusiasm as impatience , but either way rushing things will only lead to more problems.

Good luck!

Dont need to worry i will not be getting my horses anytime before the end of september or even october. And I know all about the tap water thing. I use RO/DI water for waterchanges, but i dont have an RO unit so i didnt use it for the initial filling of the tank

hydroid · 08/30/2006, 04:23 PM

Since you used tap water to fill the tank, i think your first order of business should be to rid yourself of the phosphates, silicates, nitrates in your water.

Water changes are good for keeping nutrients down, once they are down, but not quick at getting them down.

It takes about seven 20% water changes to equal a single 75% water replacement (assuming no additional nutrients are introduced via feeding, etc). Even then the 25% remaining original tap water is enough to reek havoc. It takes fifteen 20% water changes to equal a single 95% water change.

If you add a cleanup crew now, you will need to feed them, which adds more nutrients. Bottom line: If you feed a tank that already has high nutrients from tap water, it could take 6+ months of 20% water changes before the nutrients are manageable.

Things you can do:

1) Add macro algae to help consume the nutrients. Just remember: when the nutrients start getting delpleted, the macro will start to die ... releasing nutrients back into the water.

2) Use commercial products to get nutrients down quickly. I don't like them for sustained control, but they are good for a one-time nutrient reduction.

3) Let the the tank go through a massive algae bloom and reduce the nutrients by harvesting the nuisance algae.

4) Do a 100% water change with ro water

HTH

ReefNutPA · 08/30/2006, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whatnot45
i dont have an RO unit so i didnt use it for the initial filling of the tank

whatnot,

I didn't realize you did this. Todd is correct though. Most tapwater is evil!

Since you mentioned you're already getting algae growth and the tank is only like a week old, I'm going to assume your tap water is like most tap water - crapola! In hindsight, what you should have done is purchased gallons of distilled water, mixed it with salt & aerated it for a day and then filled the tank, if you didn't have RO/DI available.

Todd's given you some good advise as to what to do from this point. If you don't have the test kits for silicates & phosphate perhaps your LFS can test that for you so you know where you stand.

All new tanks go through an "algae phase", which I know you're aware of. The key is, you want it to die off as it should and not continue growing and become problematic like your last tank.

Since the tank is newly set up, now is the time to make changes and corrections before the tank gets too far along. I'd go for a really short lighting period right now until you find out the condition of your water. If it's real high in phosphate/silicates from using the tap water I'd lower that using Todd's recommendations before you go with a 10-12 hour light cycle.

Best of luck to 'ya! We're all here to help if you need it.

Tom

whatnot45 · 08/30/2006, 07:05 PM

Well the algea is not unexpected. I did put in a big chunk of frozen mysis into the tank the day i got my LR to decay and produce amonia... im sure that that helped but I will still get some more RO/DI and do a big waterchange. I run activated carbon i dont know if that gets rid of silicates or not. I know it doesnt remove phosphates. I can get some pads though. And I am not going to get my clean up crew until my tank is cycled. I have the calurpa in the fuge under a 24/7 30watt T-5 light and its growing very quickly.

CeaHorseMaShell · 08/31/2006, 08:30 AM

have you tried a kent phosphate sponge? Those seem to work really well. I agree with Tom about the tap water. That can also be a huge source of phosphates, therefore the water changes that are meant to help the tank are feeding the problem. This could explain your hair algea problem. good luck
Michele

whatnot45 · 08/31/2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CeaHorseMaShell
have you tried a kent phosphate sponge? Those seem to work really well. I agree with Tom about the tap water. That can also be a huge source of phosphates, therefore the water changes that are meant to help the tank are feeding the problem. This could explain your hair algea problem. good luck
Michele

I do water changes with Ro DI water or sometimes distilled

whatnot45 · 08/31/2006, 03:05 PM

I think that the main source of my hair algea problem was that it got direct sunlight in the afternnon from my bedroom window. That is no longer the case as I tinted the window greenish blue xD so my whole room is green

whatnot45 · 09/02/2006, 11:29 PM

Darn those aiptasia are back after i treated with lime juice. Time to go to the LFS to get some joe's juice. I might pick up some more macro's while im there and another piece of live rock. ILl post pics tomarrow of my grose brown tank .

pledosophy · 09/03/2006, 12:26 AM

Lime Juice? I know with Lemon juice you have to inject the juice right into the mouth of the appie where Joe's or Kalk you just have to get close. JME

mal40 · 09/03/2006, 05:15 PM

On the vibrio subject, colera is a vibrio, not the one most seahorses get, but it has been more fully studied as it affects humans..

This vibrio lives in snails, pods and most other sea creatures. If you do a search you will find studies on it.

If you buy the seahorse disease book, they wrote about the seahorse vibrio, and I have been told they are very similar in the way they live - so you can probably translate the studies of the colera vibrio to the seahorse vibrio. So once your tank has the seahorse vibrio, it will not go away if you leave the tank fallow for 6 weeks. You will have to remove every living thing from the tank.

pledosophy · 09/03/2006, 08:38 PM

Mal is right. There have been tanks left fallow for a year and on introduction of new syngnathids the original strain of vibrio caused infection in the new speciments.

whatnot45 · 09/03/2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mal40
On the vibrio subject, colera is a vibrio, not the one most seahorses get, but it has been more fully studied as it affects humans..

This vibrio lives in snails, pods and most other sea creatures. If you do a search you will find studies on it.

If you buy the seahorse disease book, they wrote about the seahorse vibrio, and I have been told they are very similar in the way they live - so you can probably translate the studies of the colera vibrio to the seahorse vibrio. So once your tank has the seahorse vibrio, it will not go away if you leave the tank fallow for 6 weeks. You will have to remove every living thing from the tank.

Is that not what i did? The tank is just recycling now...

whatnot45 · 09/03/2006, 08:57 PM

Ok anyways I did a test on the tank today for amonia, nitrites and nitrates

The results were kind of unexpected

So first i started with nitrites. They were undetectable
Then I did nitrates. They too were undectable

at this point, i figured that there must be a lot of amonia being that i had put a huge block of mysis in about a week earlier and three days ago, they read 5 ppm

Any ways, I did the amonia test and it too was undetectable.

How can this be? that With all of the waist produced from the decaying mysis just dissapered? It should have turned into nitrates, but there were no nitrates....

I added another big chunk of mysis today.

mal40 · 09/04/2006, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by whatnot45
Is that not what i did? The tank is just recycling now...

Yes,

But someone else reading the thread later may follow the advice given to leave the tank for 6 weeks. You need to correct bad advice, even if in this particular case you did not follow the advice.

whatnot45 · 09/04/2006, 11:24 AM

oh ok but no one told me to leave it fallow for 6 weeks oh whatever lol

whatnot45 · 09/07/2006, 07:14 PM

COOL!

So the other day i tested my tank about 5 days after i added the first big block of frozen mysis. My amonia, nitrite, and nitrate all were undetectable! So then i added a bunch more frozen mysis (about 50 PE mysis) The next day I tested again. Amonia was at 0.1 ppm as was nitrite. Nitrate was still undetectable. I tested again today (the mysis are still there rotting away in my feeding station) and I got amonia:0.1 , and Nitrite 0.3

I took at trip to the LFS today as well. I got a nitrogen cycle booster thingy that is supposed to cylce your tank in 48 hours. My tank is almost cycled already the old fashioned way, so I figure that this thing couldnt hurt. I also got some kalk because the aiptasia is back.

I am planning on getting my clean up crew this weekend!

whatnot45 · 09/07/2006, 07:23 PM

Oh and my evil brown diatoms are truning black and going away

JennyL · 09/08/2006, 09:05 AM

Whatnot,
I think you need to slow down and allow this tank to complete the cycling process before adding any stock.

Patience is a big plus in this hobby.

08/26/2006, 06:55 PM	#51
Brock Fluharty Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: USA Posts: 908	Umm...I think that Dwarf red tip hermits are the most aggressive. I think that whoever told you that the hermits were herbivores lied. ALL hermits that I have mixed with nassarius snails have ended up eradicating the snails within a day. I would just stick to snails, but JMHO. Wait until your tank is fully cycled to get your clean up crew. __________________ Sepiolids rule! Current Tank Info: 75g aggressive reef, 20g A. percula tank, 29g H. erectus seahorse tank

08/27/2006, 12:17 AM	#52
pledosophy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton Posts: 5,290	IME scarlet reef hermits are the best and least aggressive. __________________ 120g mixed reef 90g QT

08/30/2006, 04:23 PM	#59
hydroid Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: St George, UT Posts: 164	Since you used tap water to fill the tank, i think your first order of business should be to rid yourself of the phosphates, silicates, nitrates in your water. Water changes are good for keeping nutrients down, once they are down, but not quick at getting them down. It takes about seven 20% water changes to equal a single 75% water replacement (assuming no additional nutrients are introduced via feeding, etc). Even then the 25% remaining original tap water is enough to reek havoc. It takes fifteen 20% water changes to equal a single 95% water change. If you add a cleanup crew now, you will need to feed them, which adds more nutrients. Bottom line: If you feed a tank that already has high nutrients from tap water, it could take 6+ months of 20% water changes before the nutrients are manageable. Things you can do: 1) Add macro algae to help consume the nutrients. Just remember: when the nutrients start getting delpleted, the macro will start to die ... releasing nutrients back into the water. 2) Use commercial products to get nutrients down quickly. I don't like them for sustained control, but they are good for a one-time nutrient reduction. 3) Let the the tank go through a massive algae bloom and reduce the nutrients by harvesting the nuisance algae. 4) Do a 100% water change with ro water HTH __________________ Todd Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.

08/31/2006, 08:30 AM	#62
CeaHorseMaShell Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rocky Mount, Virginia Posts: 198	have you tried a kent phosphate sponge? Those seem to work really well. I agree with Tom about the tap water. That can also be a huge source of phosphates, therefore the water changes that are meant to help the tank are feeding the problem. This could explain your hair algea problem. good luck Michele __________________ Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. Michele Current Tank Info: 54 corner, 29 reidi seahorses

09/03/2006, 12:26 AM	#66
pledosophy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton Posts: 5,290	Lime Juice? I know with Lemon juice you have to inject the juice right into the mouth of the appie where Joe's or Kalk you just have to get close. JME __________________ 120g mixed reef 90g QT

08/27/2006, 05:29 PM	#53
whatnot45 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: san jose california Posts: 666	Ok I was just going by what Etropicals said on their little charts. they said that Scarlet reef hermits and dwarf red tip hermits were bothe peacful and herbiverouse. I will not get the dwarf ones, but i am still getting scarlets xD I DO NOT! wan any hair algea to come wreck the tank like it did last time

08/27/2006, 07:48 PM	#54
Sushi Roll Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 50	I'm confused. I've read every post in this thread and I don't understand why you are saying the hair algae wrecked your tank? I thought it was vibrio... does hair algae help facilitate vibrio or something? Or are you just saying independent of your sea horses dying from vibrio, the hair algae grew all over your tank? I'm new to the aquarium hobby so please explain exactly what is wrong with hair algae. Thanks.

08/27/2006, 10:40 PM	#55
whatnot45 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: san jose california Posts: 666	Well Bothe Wrecked my tank. I originally set the tank up as a reef tank. It was an uber cool one too lol. I had a baby yellow tang, a pair of saddleback clown fish and a bubble anemone, and a dameselfish as well as WHOLE LOT of corals (SPS LPS Sponges and Gorgonians) Then, I got hair algea. The algea overran my corals to a point where I only had a couple zoos a bubble coral and a leather coral left. I litterally took the tank apart every weekend and scrubbed the rocks with a toothe brush to get the algea off. It did no good. Then, I decided to get seahorses. I sold my fish, anemone, and bubble coral. And got a pair of erectus. the hair algea stayed but it wasnt bothering me as much any more (i learned to live with it) Then the vibrio came, and that was the last straw. lol Now here I am deciding on a new cleanup crew

08/29/2006, 11:39 PM	#56
whatnot45 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: san jose california Posts: 666	Ok The new 40 dollar light has been here for 5 days, and my calurpa is growing just as well with it as with my big T-5 one. So its going to stay!

08/30/2006, 12:08 PM	#57
nickterp Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 263	It seems like you may take things just a tiny bit too fast. Seahorses dying... buy more.... die buy more, etc. Definitely take your time this time around. Once you get your tank setup, let it cycle for a few weeks and stabilize. Then you can make sure you have everything under control before you try more seahorses. As far as the hair algae, etc: I'm not sure if I read all your posts carefully, but you're using regular tap water with a conditioner?? I know some people do this succesfully, but I personally tested my tap water and its terrible. The phophates were off the charts and that can grow algae out of control. You could buy your own RO/ID unit or just get RO/DI water from a LFS. Again dude, take your time.. it may be that we are just misinterpreting your enthusiasm as impatience , but either way rushing things will only lead to more problems. Good luck!

08/30/2006, 07:05 PM	#61
whatnot45 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: san jose california Posts: 666	Well the algea is not unexpected. I did put in a big chunk of frozen mysis into the tank the day i got my LR to decay and produce amonia... im sure that that helped but I will still get some more RO/DI and do a big waterchange. I run activated carbon i dont know if that gets rid of silicates or not. I know it doesnt remove phosphates. I can get some pads though. And I am not going to get my clean up crew until my tank is cycled. I have the calurpa in the fuge under a 24/7 30watt T-5 light and its growing very quickly.

08/31/2006, 03:05 PM	#64
whatnot45 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: san jose california Posts: 666	I think that the main source of my hair algea problem was that it got direct sunlight in the afternnon from my bedroom window. That is no longer the case as I tinted the window greenish blue xD so my whole room is green

09/02/2006, 11:29 PM	#65
whatnot45 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: san jose california Posts: 666	Darn those aiptasia are back after i treated with lime juice. Time to go to the LFS to get some joe's juice. I might pick up some more macro's while im there and another piece of live rock. ILl post pics tomarrow of my grose brown tank .

09/03/2006, 05:15 PM	#67
mal40 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50	On the vibrio subject, colera is a vibrio, not the one most seahorses get, but it has been more fully studied as it affects humans.. This vibrio lives in snails, pods and most other sea creatures. If you do a search you will find studies on it. If you buy the seahorse disease book, they wrote about the seahorse vibrio, and I have been told they are very similar in the way they live - so you can probably translate the studies of the colera vibrio to the seahorse vibrio. So once your tank has the seahorse vibrio, it will not go away if you leave the tank fallow for 6 weeks. You will have to remove every living thing from the tank.

09/03/2006, 08:38 PM	#68
pledosophy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton Posts: 5,290	Mal is right. There have been tanks left fallow for a year and on introduction of new syngnathids the original strain of vibrio caused infection in the new speciments. __________________ 120g mixed reef 90g QT

09/03/2006, 08:57 PM	#70
whatnot45 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: san jose california Posts: 666	Ok anyways I did a test on the tank today for amonia, nitrites and nitrates The results were kind of unexpected So first i started with nitrites. They were undetectable Then I did nitrates. They too were undectable at this point, i figured that there must be a lot of amonia being that i had put a huge block of mysis in about a week earlier and three days ago, they read 5 ppm Any ways, I did the amonia test and it too was undetectable. How can this be? that With all of the waist produced from the decaying mysis just dissapered? It should have turned into nitrates, but there were no nitrates.... I added another big chunk of mysis today.

09/04/2006, 11:24 AM	#72
whatnot45 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: san jose california Posts: 666	oh ok but no one told me to leave it fallow for 6 weeks oh whatever lol

09/07/2006, 07:14 PM	#73
whatnot45 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: san jose california Posts: 666	COOL! So the other day i tested my tank about 5 days after i added the first big block of frozen mysis. My amonia, nitrite, and nitrate all were undetectable! So then i added a bunch more frozen mysis (about 50 PE mysis) The next day I tested again. Amonia was at 0.1 ppm as was nitrite. Nitrate was still undetectable. I tested again today (the mysis are still there rotting away in my feeding station) and I got amonia:0.1 , and Nitrite 0.3 I took at trip to the LFS today as well. I got a nitrogen cycle booster thingy that is supposed to cylce your tank in 48 hours. My tank is almost cycled already the old fashioned way, so I figure that this thing couldnt hurt. I also got some kalk because the aiptasia is back. I am planning on getting my clean up crew this weekend!

09/07/2006, 07:23 PM	#74
whatnot45 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: san jose california Posts: 666	Oh and my evil brown diatoms are truning black and going away

09/08/2006, 09:05 AM	#75
JennyL Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 406	Whatnot, I think you need to slow down and allow this tank to complete the cycling process before adding any stock. Patience is a big plus in this hobby.