Zeovit vs AF

jpas · 11/20/2016, 05:37 PM

Hello All,

I am thinking of switching to AF from a full Zeovit tank. I find Zeovit to be very finicky and not well suited to automation, I travel a lot and would like a system not so sensitive.

How should i phase out the zeovit and phase in the AF products? Should I do a big Probiotic water change and start dosing the AF Pro Bio B and NP?

My system is 400l net water volume with fish, clams and corals, it has been setup for almost two years and is running stable.

Thank you,

Jason

plyle02 · 11/21/2016, 06:04 AM

Hi Jason,
As your parameters are likely close or at NSW values, the switch should be quite easy. I would also try to add some biological media like siporax, Life Bio Fil, or matrix to harbor de-nitrifying bacteria. This will aid in break down of nutrients. A good water change with Probiotic Reef Salt, paired with AF Pro Bio S(bacteria strains), NP Pro(liquid polymer carbon source) will help to maintain the lowered values, similar to zeovit daily carbon/bac dosing. The zeolites or AF Zeo Mix do not need shaking, so any reactor will do. Many like to use the stack method here with AF, which is Zeo Mix, then on top of that AF Carbon, and AF Phosphate Minus on top of that, set so that the Phosphate Minus tumbles gently. Simply converting your zeolite reactor to this method is quite easy. I would imagine around .5-.75 cups of each media would be a good starting point. This should get you going, let us know if you have any other questions. Please review the user guide under Probiotic Method to understand each product. Cheers

http://aquaforest.eu/en/download/

2una · 11/21/2016, 08:23 AM

Aren't you just going be jumping from 1 horse to another?...if the zeo is too "sensitive" your talking about no3/po4 levels bottoming out? Why not just slow the flow down on the zeovit or reduce the amount your running?.
ULNS & additives whether its zeo or af i don't see a lot of differance as far as management goes.
As for the zeovit stone shaking i'm now up running kz amounts with af's zeomix & not doing any pumping & so far so good,almost at 4 weeks in with full amount & flow & nothings gummed up.
With AF you can put the carbon source on a doser but not the bacteria - same like zeo its got to be dropped

jpas · 11/21/2016, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plyle02

Hi Jason,
As your parameters are likely close or at NSW values, the switch should be quite easy. I would also try to add some biological media like siporax, Life Bio Fil, or matrix to harbor de-nitrifying bacteria. This will aid in break down of nutrients. A good water change with Probiotic Reef Salt, paired with AF Pro Bio S(bacteria strains), NP Pro(liquid polymer carbon source) will help to maintain the lowered values, similar to zeovit daily carbon/bac dosing. The zeolites or AF Zeo Mix do not need shaking, so any reactor will do. Many like to use the stack method here with AF, which is Zeo Mix, then on top of that AF Carbon, and AF Phosphate Minus on top of that, set so that the Phosphate Minus tumbles gently. Simply converting your zeolite reactor to this method is quite easy. I would imagine around .5-.75 cups of each media would be a good starting point. This should get you going, let us know if you have any other questions. Please review the user guide under Probiotic Method to understand each product. Cheers

http://aquaforest.eu/en/download/

Thanks Perry, I look forward to giving it a try. Do I completely stop the KZ dosing and go 100% AF all at once?

jpas · 11/21/2016, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2una

Aren't you just going be jumping from 1 horse to another?...if the zeo is too "sensitive" your talking about no3/po4 levels bottoming out? Why not just slow the flow down on the zeovit or reduce the amount your running?.
ULNS & additives whether its zeo or af i don't see a lot of differance as far as management goes.
As for the zeovit stone shaking i'm now up running kz amounts with af's zeomix & not doing any pumping & so far so good,almost at 4 weeks in with full amount & flow & nothings gummed up.
With AF you can put the carbon source on a doser but not the bacteria - same like zeo its got to be dropped

You are probably right! I am building a much larger system now (400g) and the Zeovit system is also more costly then the AF system.

What salt are you using?

2una · 11/21/2016, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpas

You are probably right! I am building a much larger system now (400g) and the Zeovit system is also more costly then the AF system.

What salt are you using?

Okay i got you...
Salt i was using Aqua Vitro Salinity but Af have now got presence here & as of a week ago i started on their probiotic salt.
Good luck with what you choose to do there.

jpas · 11/21/2016, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2una

Okay i got you...
Salt i was using Aqua Vitro Salinity but Af have now got presence here & as of a week ago i started on their probiotic salt.
Good luck with what you choose to do there.

Thanks!

plyle02 · 11/22/2016, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpas

Thanks Perry, I look forward to giving it a try. Do I completely stop the KZ dosing and go 100% AF all at once?

That is really up to you, there are several people that convert from previous systems that will use up existing products before switching over to Aquaforest. The system does not run on a razor's edge to me, much more gentle IMO. So for example, you could use up your carbon, zeolites, bacteria, Potassium, coral vitalizer, coral snow, aminos, etc... I find the CV to be closer to AF Energy, the CS to be close to AF Build, AAHC to be close to AF Amino Mix. As far as Zeo Start3 and the Bak, I would discontinue use when you begin AF version with use of NP Pro and Pro Bio S. I started with a Probiotic Salt water change, then began 1/2 dosing NP Pro and Pro Bio S daily. I also added the stack method straight away. I also began with AF Build, Energy, Amino Mix, and Vitality the first week too. Later I converted from 2 part over to their Component 123 system similar to balling. Cheers

jpas · 12/14/2016, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plyle02

That is really up to you, there are several people that convert from previous systems that will use up existing products before switching over to Aquaforest. The system does not run on a razor's edge to me, much more gentle IMO. So for example, you could use up your carbon, zeolites, bacteria, Potassium, coral vitalizer, coral snow, aminos, etc... I find the CV to be closer to AF Energy, the CS to be close to AF Build, AAHC to be close to AF Amino Mix. As far as Zeo Start3 and the Bak, I would discontinue use when you begin AF version with use of NP Pro and Pro Bio S. I started with a Probiotic Salt water change, then began 1/2 dosing NP Pro and Pro Bio S daily. I also added the stack method straight away. I also began with AF Build, Energy, Amino Mix, and Vitality the first week too. Later I converted from 2 part over to their Component 123 system similar to balling. Cheers

Hi Perry,

Thanks for you help!! I have start the AF system and everything seems to be going smoothly for the first 2 weeks.

I have the following questions:

1. Does the zeomix require soaking before use?
2. Can I use my left over zeovit stones with the AF system?
3. How much siporax should I add to my system (100g net volume)
4. I saw your post regarding the prep of the carbon using hot water, what is the purpose of the hot water rinse
5. I have started the Component 1-2-3 at the same time and I am monitoring the dkh, i do not have many SPS right now so the Ca & Alk seem to be pretty steady with only a small dose (30ml daily) of each component. Does this seem normal?

I have done six 10 gallon water changes with the Probiotic salt over the first 14 days and the corals really seem to like it. I will now start to do a weekly 10 gallon w/c, do you think this is enough of a change to the probiotic salt or should I do a much larger change at one time?

My phosphates are slightly up, at 0.07ppm and my nitrates are at 5ppm. I'll keep a close watch on them. I plan on using a larger reactor for my 4 week stack change.

jpas · 12/14/2016, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plyle02

That is really up to you, there are several people that convert from previous systems that will use up existing products before switching over to Aquaforest. The system does not run on a razor's edge to me, much more gentle IMO. So for example, you could use up your carbon, zeolites, bacteria, Potassium, coral vitalizer, coral snow, aminos, etc... I find the CV to be closer to AF Energy, the CS to be close to AF Build, AAHC to be close to AF Amino Mix. As far as Zeo Start3 and the Bak, I would discontinue use when you begin AF version with use of NP Pro and Pro Bio S. I started with a Probiotic Salt water change, then began 1/2 dosing NP Pro and Pro Bio S daily. I also added the stack method straight away. I also began with AF Build, Energy, Amino Mix, and Vitality the first week too. Later I converted from 2 part over to their Component 123 system similar to balling. Cheers

Hi Perry,

Thanks for your help!! I have started the AF system and everything seems to be going smoothly for the first 2 weeks.

I have the following questions:

1. Does the zeomix require soaking before use?
2. Can I use my left over zeovit stones with the AF system?
3. How much siporax should I add to my system (100g net volume)
4. I saw your post regarding the prep of the carbon using hot water, what is the purpose of the hot water rinse
5. I have started the Component 1-2-3 at the same time and I am monitoring the dkh, i do not have many SPS right now so the Ca & Alk seem to be pretty steady with only a small dose (30ml daily) of each component. Does this seem normal?

I have done six 10 gallon water changes with the Probiotic salt over the first 14 days and the corals really seem to like it. I will now start to do a weekly 10 gallon w/c, do you think this is enough of a change to the probiotic salt or should I do a much larger change at one time?

My phosphates are slightly up, at 0.07ppm and my nitrates are at 5ppm. I'll keep a close watch on them. I plan on using a larger reactor for my 4 week stack change.

plyle02 · 12/14/2016, 03:44 PM

1. Does the zeomix require soaking before use? Yes, I soak in RODI for a couple of hours plus a good couple of rinses after.
2. Can I use my left over zeovit stones with the AF system?I do not see any harm in that, as most zeolites are quite similar.
3. How much siporax should I add to my system (100g net volume)Minimum 1 liter of media per 27 gallons, I would think 6 litters would be great.
4. I saw your post regarding the prep of the carbon using hot water, what is the purpose of the hot water rinseOld Zeovit habits, the Carbon is steam activated, but I have always had better performance myself, but a good soak in RODI should suffice
5. I have started the Component 1-2-3 at the same time and I am monitoring the dkh, i do not have many SPS right now so the Ca & Alk seem to be pretty steady with only a small dose (30ml daily) of each component. Does this seem normal?Yes, this is normal, but pay attention, most report huge growth spurts early on when converting, so pay attention to alk consumption.

I personally would not recommend too large of changes, 25% would be about max, keep in mind the Probiotic Salt does have aminos, carbon source, bacteria, and vitamins, just do not want to see a bacterial bloom as a result.

jpas · 12/15/2016, 06:23 AM

Thank you, your help is much appreciated!

jpas · 01/10/2017, 01:27 PM

Hi Perry,

I am coming up to 6 weeks after transitioning from Zeovit to AF and my phosphates are starting to rise. They have gone up to 0.1ppm and after a couple of water changes they are coming down, but still at 0.07ppm.

I am currently using 1 cup of AF GFO in a reactor stacked with AF carbon and zeomix. Would it be okay to run an additional reactor with AF GFO to drop the phosphates as needed?

If not, any other suggestions, I guess it takes a couple of months for the siporax to become effective?

Thank you,

Jason

plyle02 · 01/10/2017, 03:54 PM

Yes, should be fine, it is more gentle than other gfo, just keep an eye on corals, Aston not bottom out on nutrients

jpas · 01/10/2017, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plyle02

Yes, should be fine, it is more gentle than other gfo, just keep an eye on corals, Aston not bottom out on nutrients

Great, I'll run it for a couple of hours at time to slowly bring down the phosphates.

Thanks again for your help.

ReefKeeper64 · 01/12/2017, 01:02 PM

Consider bumping up your ratio of Siporax per gallon of water being treated. For reference, Carlinhos Moreno uses 140 liters of Siporax to manage his 2000 liter system. Doing the math that works out to 26 liters of Siporax per 100 gallons of water. That's significantly higher than what the manufacturer says is required but the media is cheap and the results speak for themselves. Plus, you cannot overdose or overuse the media because it is as safe as porous rock.

See
"I got about 140 liter of Siporax Pond in 4 perforated boxes (see pictures)"
and
"Display gross capacity is close to 1,000 liter again, and I have another 1,000 liter of water circulating through the complete filtration system".

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....k-of-the-month

Hope that helps!

jpas · 01/13/2017, 06:29 PM

Wow, 27l per 100g is pretty crazy. I'm running only 6l!! I'm waiting on the new Bio Fil material to add more.

How long does it take for the siporax to fully seed & become effective?

jpas · 01/13/2017, 06:34 PM

Could I use a half dose of Bio S to help reduce nitrates/phosphate?

ReefKeeper64 · 01/13/2017, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpas

Wow, 27l per 100g is pretty crazy. I'm running only 6l!! I'm waiting on the new Bio Fil material to add more.

How long does it take for the siporax to fully seed & become effective?

Siporax, MarinePure blocks, Matrix, natural rock all take about the same time to become effective. The key is, the more media surface you have available for biological activity to occur, the faster the bacteria multiply.

jpas · 01/14/2017, 10:19 AM

I have the Siporax in my first sump chamber. Today I added the Pro Bio S into the chamber and watched how quickly it dispersed into the chamber. I was surprised to see it just sit there, every after 5 min it was still visible

I added a Power head into this chamber, hopefully it helps with making the siporax more effective.

11/20/2016, 05:37 PM	#1
jpas Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 60	Zeovit vs AF Hello All, I am thinking of switching to AF from a full Zeovit tank. I find Zeovit to be very finicky and not well suited to automation, I travel a lot and would like a system not so sensitive. How should i phase out the zeovit and phase in the AF products? Should I do a big Probiotic water change and start dosing the AF Pro Bio B and NP? My system is 400l net water volume with fish, clams and corals, it has been setup for almost two years and is running stable. Thank you, Jason

11/21/2016, 06:04 AM	#2
plyle02 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lake Helen, FL Posts: 5,526	Hi Jason, As your parameters are likely close or at NSW values, the switch should be quite easy. I would also try to add some biological media like siporax, Life Bio Fil, or matrix to harbor de-nitrifying bacteria. This will aid in break down of nutrients. A good water change with Probiotic Reef Salt, paired with AF Pro Bio S(bacteria strains), NP Pro(liquid polymer carbon source) will help to maintain the lowered values, similar to zeovit daily carbon/bac dosing. The zeolites or AF Zeo Mix do not need shaking, so any reactor will do. Many like to use the stack method here with AF, which is Zeo Mix, then on top of that AF Carbon, and AF Phosphate Minus on top of that, set so that the Phosphate Minus tumbles gently. Simply converting your zeolite reactor to this method is quite easy. I would imagine around .5-.75 cups of each media would be a good starting point. This should get you going, let us know if you have any other questions. Please review the user guide under Probiotic Method to understand each product. Cheers http://aquaforest.eu/en/download/ __________________ Perry "Anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die" ~Buddha~ Current Tank Info: 50 Gallon AIO Cube, Aquamaxx WS-1 Skimmer, LED/ Hybrid 4x24 watt t5

11/21/2016, 08:23 AM	#3
2una Registered Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: South Africa Posts: 170	Aren't you just going be jumping from 1 horse to another?...if the zeo is too "sensitive" your talking about no3/po4 levels bottoming out? Why not just slow the flow down on the zeovit or reduce the amount your running?. ULNS & additives whether its zeo or af i don't see a lot of differance as far as management goes. As for the zeovit stone shaking i'm now up running kz amounts with af's zeomix & not doing any pumping & so far so good,almost at 4 weeks in with full amount & flow & nothings gummed up. With AF you can put the carbon source on a doser but not the bacteria - same like zeo its got to be dropped Last edited by 2una; 11/21/2016 at 08:47 AM.

12/14/2016, 03:44 PM	#11
plyle02 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lake Helen, FL Posts: 5,526	1. Does the zeomix require soaking before use? Yes, I soak in RODI for a couple of hours plus a good couple of rinses after. 2. Can I use my left over zeovit stones with the AF system?I do not see any harm in that, as most zeolites are quite similar. 3. How much siporax should I add to my system (100g net volume)Minimum 1 liter of media per 27 gallons, I would think 6 litters would be great. 4. I saw your post regarding the prep of the carbon using hot water, what is the purpose of the hot water rinseOld Zeovit habits, the Carbon is steam activated, but I have always had better performance myself, but a good soak in RODI should suffice 5. I have started the Component 1-2-3 at the same time and I am monitoring the dkh, i do not have many SPS right now so the Ca & Alk seem to be pretty steady with only a small dose (30ml daily) of each component. Does this seem normal?Yes, this is normal, but pay attention, most report huge growth spurts early on when converting, so pay attention to alk consumption. I personally would not recommend too large of changes, 25% would be about max, keep in mind the Probiotic Salt does have aminos, carbon source, bacteria, and vitamins, just do not want to see a bacterial bloom as a result. __________________ Perry "Anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die" ~Buddha~ Current Tank Info: 50 Gallon AIO Cube, Aquamaxx WS-1 Skimmer, LED/ Hybrid 4x24 watt t5

01/10/2017, 03:54 PM	#14
plyle02 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lake Helen, FL Posts: 5,526	Yes, should be fine, it is more gentle than other gfo, just keep an eye on corals, Aston not bottom out on nutrients __________________ Perry "Anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die" ~Buddha~ Current Tank Info: 50 Gallon AIO Cube, Aquamaxx WS-1 Skimmer, LED/ Hybrid 4x24 watt t5

12/15/2016, 06:23 AM	#12
jpas Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 60	Thank you, your help is much appreciated!

01/10/2017, 01:27 PM	#13
jpas Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 60	Hi Perry, I am coming up to 6 weeks after transitioning from Zeovit to AF and my phosphates are starting to rise. They have gone up to 0.1ppm and after a couple of water changes they are coming down, but still at 0.07ppm. I am currently using 1 cup of AF GFO in a reactor stacked with AF carbon and zeomix. Would it be okay to run an additional reactor with AF GFO to drop the phosphates as needed? If not, any other suggestions, I guess it takes a couple of months for the siporax to become effective? Thank you, Jason

01/12/2017, 01:02 PM	#16
ReefKeeper64 Wanna be a reefkeeper Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Tampa Posts: 1,158	Consider bumping up your ratio of Siporax per gallon of water being treated. For reference, Carlinhos Moreno uses 140 liters of Siporax to manage his 2000 liter system. Doing the math that works out to 26 liters of Siporax per 100 gallons of water. That's significantly higher than what the manufacturer says is required but the media is cheap and the results speak for themselves. Plus, you cannot overdose or overuse the media because it is as safe as porous rock. See "I got about 140 liter of Siporax Pond in 4 perforated boxes (see pictures)" and "Display gross capacity is close to 1,000 liter again, and I have another 1,000 liter of water circulating through the complete filtration system". http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....k-of-the-month Hope that helps!

01/13/2017, 06:29 PM	#17
jpas Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 60	Wow, 27l per 100g is pretty crazy. I'm running only 6l!! I'm waiting on the new Bio Fil material to add more. How long does it take for the siporax to fully seed & become effective?

01/13/2017, 06:34 PM	#18
jpas Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 60	Could I use a half dose of Bio S to help reduce nitrates/phosphate?

01/14/2017, 10:19 AM	#20
jpas Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 60	I have the Siporax in my first sump chamber. Today I added the Pro Bio S into the chamber and watched how quickly it dispersed into the chamber. I was surprised to see it just sit there, every after 5 min it was still visible I added a Power head into this chamber, hopefully it helps with making the siporax more effective.