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Old 02/19/2016, 09:31 PM   #3151
mannyhernz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
You might look around for a hydrogen peroxide dip recipe, if you're willing to take some risk. Something like Coral RX might be safe, but I don't know how well it'd kill dinoflagellates. Companies generally keep their products' ingredients under wraps.
Tried the coral RX pro dip, didnt make a difference with the dinos on my sps.
Btw i am on my 3rd water change since ridding my dinos..hopefully they are gone for good.


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Old 02/19/2016, 09:37 PM   #3152
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Peroxide. You need the ozone like effect to rip them apart.


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Old 02/19/2016, 11:54 PM   #3153
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yeah i did a 1:3 ratio of h2o2 with tank water @ 500 ml.

moved the coral around for 2 minutes and put it back. I'm kind of new to this whole dipping thing how often can this be done?


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Old 02/20/2016, 11:59 AM   #3154
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Quiet_Ivy, I took a run at your first draft of the FAQ. The changes look extensive but aren't -- my biggest contribution was probably noticing that you didn't include a recommendation against carbon dosing. Mostly I reorganized it and added karimwassef's description of his implementation of the Clean Method and cal_stir's description of the Dirty Method, partly for their value as primary source documents and partly for their value as practical guides.

I encourage others to look over Quiet_Ivy's draft FAQ and help the process along. This is really about identifying a set of "best practices", so it's important.

And I encourage everyone, especially DNA, to take a moment to appreciate the fact that things have progressed to the point where pulling together a useful FAQ to help other hobbyists deal with dinos is now a reasonable goal.


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Old 02/20/2016, 01:15 PM   #3155
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Originally Posted by mannyhernz View Post
Tried the coral RX pro dip, didn't make a difference with the dinos on my SPS.
Btw I am on my 3rd water change since ridding my dinos..hopefully they are gone for good.
Are you sure they are dinos on your SPS? is it greenish, on the tips, mostly on birds nest?


Above image shows what proceeded the disappearance of dinos in my tank. It is a plant and they are still there.


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Old 02/20/2016, 01:16 PM   #3156
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Originally Posted by seamonster124 View Post
Are you sure they are dinos on your SPS? is it greenish, on the tips, mostly on birds nest?

They were dinos..when i had them i tried dipping the sps but they would come back. Most of those sps did not make it through the dino period.


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Old 02/20/2016, 03:43 PM   #3157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
Thanks so much for crystalizing the idea for me. That idea connects a lot of things I've had knocking around in my head
Thanks for doing your homework and stepping up. I've said before that there's an enormous amount of energy and creativity in this hobby... All that's missing from the mix is some fresh science to help get people pointed in more or less the right direction when they're inspired to venture off the edge of the map and see if they turn up something interesting to bring back and share with the rest of us.

Speaking of which -- is it my imagination, Quiet_Ivy, or are you Up To Something?


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Originally Posted by taricha
I've also thought maybe I should cultivate the skimmer mix in the dark, that way the organisms in the mix would be undisturbed by lights out, and I could hit the dinos with a 1-2 of darkness + skimmer mix. I couldn't call it "green tea" though, Maybe I'll call that skimmer "black tea."
That reminds me...


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Originally Posted by 34cygni
If I'm right about TDA-making, coral-friendly rosies in shed mucus getting skimmed off, then this is clearly a good idea...


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01/11/2016, 09:08 AM #2618
seamonster124

6) Opened skimmer's collection cup drain to allow it to drain right back into the sump.
...but could be there's a better way. If a skimmer drained or overflowed into a bioreactor of some sort, perhaps we could culture coral-friendly bacteria before returning the skimmate to the system. Maybe the Montireef Protocol can be automated, enhanced, and made to work reliably.
If taricha's upgrade to the Montireef Protocol shows promise, some of the makers on RC might consider executing such a skimmer mod if for no other reason than because publicly doing so would demonstrate prior art and make it less likely that the idea can be successfully patented by the Aquarium-Industrial Complex. Come to think of it, a patent-preventing proactive build along these lines might be an even better idea if it doesn't work, as it looks like something that might make good snake oil...


Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
I screwed up the tests somehow, contaminated all the beakers. Killed everything dino sized and larger in every beaker.
There's not a lot of ecological resilience or thermal mass in teeny-tiny systems, so it may just be that they crashed... But since you mentioned that you're working in a classroom, if you repeat the experiment, consider preparing two control beakers and putting one in an undisclosed secure location to make sure they weren't intentionally contaminated.

This is just vague paranoia, but a few years ago in the area where I live, 2 or 3 of the SW LFS's were struck by poisoning -- probably an OTC garden chemical surreptitiously dumped into their DTs. That didn't strike me as significant until I came across this paper while I was doing my homework...

Changes in microbial diversity associated with two coral species recovering from a stressed state in a public aquarium system
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...01c1000000.pdf

It appears someone attempted to poison the reef tank at the Horniman Museum and Gardens in London in November, 2010.

I have no idea if this was purest vandalism or some sort of moral misfire -- the aquarium version of monkey wrenching -- but it has crossed my mind that poisoning aquariums may be a thing in some social circles.


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Old 02/20/2016, 04:01 PM   #3158
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Originally Posted by 34cygni View Post
Quiet_Ivy, I took a run at your first draft of the FAQ.
It looks pretty good already.
Perhaps it's best not to over engineer it since hopefully we will rewrite it soon with even more effective methods.

Since most reefers with a dino problem don't have a clue, add some photos to get their attention.


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Old 02/20/2016, 04:15 PM   #3159
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"Opened skimmer's collection cup drain to allow it to drain right back into the sump."

Just realized this happens to my tank at least twice a year when the skimmer overflows for some reason.


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Old 02/20/2016, 05:40 PM   #3160
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Two months ago I had Ca at 350 and Alk at 5 and almost no dinos left.
Now it's Ca at 380 and Alk at 7 and the dinos are blooming again.
This is quite a thin line.

The levels took only a week to reach where they are now and they have hit the titanium wall.
Looking at my logs for the last 4 years the only times they have peaked across the wall is with chemicals on top of my oversized Calcium and Kalkwasser reactors.

I measure my Calcium reactor occasionally and last time it read:
Alk at 29 and flow 30ml/minute

Is anyone able to solve this mystery?


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Old 02/20/2016, 09:04 PM   #3161
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34 ... I think getting dinos can create a victim response... like the aftermath of a physical assault!

So your paranoia is probably a natural reaction to the horror.


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Old 02/20/2016, 11:01 PM   #3162
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Originally Posted by Fish Keeper82 View Post
These other dinos that I have now are more round and there swimming motion is nothing like the tetherball. This new dinoflagellate has more of a burst swimming motion in no particular pattern.
So in an unexpected result slow flow UV killed my Osteopsis and now another type has taken its place and seems to not make strings and stay more on the sand. Even when my return pump was out i never saw strings just heavy dusting.
...
If i ever set up a youtube account ill post the videos
by chance does it look like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBBaXVqwlMM

first time I found a vid of this kind (Coolia). I'm now 100% that this is my dino species #2.


edit: just for jollies, the same youtube user (group from canary islands studying fish poisoning) has 2 videos of a what they call a polycheate worm with a bellyfull of prorocentrum dinos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuGB0chG0bE



Last edited by taricha; 02/20/2016 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 02/21/2016, 01:22 AM   #3163
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are you saying the answer has always been bristleworms?


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Old 02/21/2016, 09:20 AM   #3164
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So far, it has been 4 months since my first (& last) bout of Dinoflagellates. How is everyone doing so far?


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Old 02/21/2016, 09:40 AM   #3165
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I'm still in good shape. I saw a dusting on a rock where a glued coral had died... I turned the UV back on 24/7 and it's gone.


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Old 02/21/2016, 10:00 AM   #3166
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Im dino free..but the dirty method left me with gha all over my rocks. I had a question for any of you that had the gha sprout up after dinos...should i attack the gha with heavy gfo or just take it slow and remove it over time? I have some turbos, trochus, and a lettuce nudi putting in the work but as we all know they like to take naps after heavy meals..


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Old 02/21/2016, 11:02 AM   #3167
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blackouts got rid of this for me, and im just seeing a few spots again with dinos again i think due to increased photoperiod.. and i'm gonna hit them again with a 3 day blackout.. doesnt seem to affect sps corals too much.


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Old 02/21/2016, 11:06 AM   #3168
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my tank is very clean never seen phos or nitrate in it :S using elos and salifert and red sea pro ive never had any algae in the tank. but i have had huge dino blooms and twice i have done 3 day blackouts with lots of filter floss and skimmer on very wet and 3 times it has been like a system reboot... however i'm still trying to find that balance of the right amount of light. I had this lighting schedule for 1.5 months with no appearance of dinos and then bam one day at the tips of some hysterix it shows up, and slowly over the next couple of days you start seeing it on the rock and then if i keep the lighting as it is im sure the tank will be covered in 4-5 more days.. so i'm gonna hit it with a 3 day blackout as of tomorrow and hopefully they will be gone! again.

My main concern when i do these blackouts is my alk/calc consumption. so make sure you test your kh daily when you do this.


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Old 02/21/2016, 11:10 AM   #3169
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I use an ATS and an army of tangs. Heavy feeding and no algae in the DT


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Old 02/21/2016, 11:17 AM   #3170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha View Post
by chance does it look like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBBaXVqwlMM

first time I found a vid of this kind (Coolia). I'm now 100% that this is my dino species #2.


edit: just for jollies, the same youtube user (group from canary islands studying fish poisoning) has 2 videos of a what they call a polycheate worm with a bellyfull of prorocentrum dinos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuGB0chG0bE
Best guess i can make from PANTS website is i now have amphidinium Dinoflagellates.
I have not seen Ostreopsis since i added the UV sterilizer. These seem to be much easier to deal with since in my case they do not seem to bother corals where as ostreopsis would make them close up.
Interesting vdeo you posted. I found several of these worms with what appears to be a bely full of Dinos. I obsereve him under the slide for about 10 mins but did not see any actual ingestion of them.


One interesting occurance was i only had 2 lights on my aquarium as seen here when i got "rid" of Ostreopsis .

After adding the 3rd light a dinos explosion came over the white lightless rock.
It has since died back quite a bit but was surprised to see how quickly they initially took hold of this new area. They even produced bubbles for a few days.


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Old 02/21/2016, 02:37 PM   #3171
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The worm actually looks full of dinos. It may not have been feeding because it was so full.


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Old 02/21/2016, 03:49 PM   #3172
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Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
The worm actually looks full of dinos. It may not have been feeding because it was so full.
I siphoned out in a 20 gal brute can 1/4" of the sands top layer to get most if the amphidinium dinos out of tank. And did a 20 gal WC.
Out of that big mess i took a small sample and saw a few of these worms. Lots of other life.
All the worms i saw of this type appeared to be full of dinos.


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Old 02/22/2016, 03:00 AM   #3173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Keeper82
Best guess i can make from PANTS website is i now have amphidinium Dinoflagellates.

I have not seen Ostreopsis since i added the UV sterilizer.
This fun science fact dropped into the mix about a week ago...


Quote:
02/13/2016, 10:06 AM #3086
taricha

Turns out some amphidinium species (Those that are laterally flattened, like mine) makes a daily cycle within the sand going deeper at night.
By killing dinos in the water column, UV would be a strong selection pressure favoring species that stay in the sand at night.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Keeper82
I found several of these worms with what appears to be a bely full of Dinos. I obsereve him under the slide for about 10 mins but did not see any actual ingestion of them.
Maybe they're not food. Maybe they're parasites or pathogens or even symbiotes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef
34 ... I think getting dinos can create a victim response... like the aftermath of a physical assault!
Wasn't there a fellow who tried building a dino-based algae scrubber some time back...? Apparently they can even trigger Stockholm Syndrome.


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Old 02/22/2016, 06:13 AM   #3174
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anybody know what kind of dip will kill ostreopsis? my tank is still squeaky clean but i have one SPS that's getting overwhelmed by the last few spots of dinos
My experience has been that even if you dip it still returns with avengance if it is still in the main tank and I reckon it is because you are also reducing the good bacteria in whatever it is you dip which is why I decided not to bother but add more bacteria as well as all the other strategies. I siphon it off or blast it off at night hoping it will remain in the water column to be sucked into filter sock or UV. I have dipped my cheato in peroxide several times and it still comes back!


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Old 02/22/2016, 07:53 AM   #3175
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Originally Posted by tastyfish View Post
So far, it has been 4 months since my first (& last) bout of Dinoflagellates. How is everyone doing so far?

Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I'm still in good shape. I saw a dusting on a rock where a glued coral had died... I turned the UV back on 24/7 and it's gone.
I keep thinking they have made a return, but it's not dinoflagellates in my case, more like diatoms as it's still a relatively new tank

Quote:
Originally Posted by mannyhernz View Post
Im dino free..but the dirty method left me with gha all over my rocks. I had a question for any of you that had the gha sprout up after dinos...should i attack the gha with heavy gfo or just take it slow and remove it over time? I have some turbos, trochus, and a lettuce nudi putting in the work but as we all know they like to take naps after heavy meals..
I think balance is probably one of the most important things here, you don't want to cause swings, so tackle whatever is feeding the GHA, but do it gently and ensure you are encouraging competitive micro fauna/flora.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KritikaL View Post
my tank is very clean never seen phos or nitrate in it :S using elos and salifert and red sea pro ive never had any algae in the tank. but i have had huge dino blooms and twice i have done 3 day blackouts with lots of filter floss and skimmer on very wet and 3 times it has been like a system reboot... however i'm still trying to find that balance of the right amount of light. I had this lighting schedule for 1.5 months with no appearance of dinos and then bam one day at the tips of some hysterix it shows up, and slowly over the next couple of days you start seeing it on the rock and then if i keep the lighting as it is im sure the tank will be covered in 4-5 more days.. so i'm gonna hit it with a 3 day blackout as of tomorrow and hopefully they will be gone! again.

My main concern when i do these blackouts is my alk/calc consumption. so make sure you test your kh daily when you do this.
I carried on with dosing Triton during my blackout, however I did a much longer blackout than 3 days which seems to be enough to get the dinos in to the water column (enough to make people think they are gone) but not enough to actually do them any harm.

After 5/6 days, the sump was getting deep in dead dinoflagellates (I was siphoning out regularly), by 8 or 9 days, this was markedly reduced suggesting that most if not all had perished and were siphonable.

I've not had a return outbreak yet, so hoping this stays true.


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