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Old 03/10/2016, 12:44 PM   #3276
karimwassef
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Mine was on special for $140 or so.. now it's $166

http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-15602.../dp/B0064JHW4I

but you can get this and it should work just as well - I didn't find it back then.

http://www.amazon.com/Jebao-55-watt-.../dp/B00K1HHG9U


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Old 03/10/2016, 12:45 PM   #3277
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If I could go back, I'd get this baby

http://www.amazon.com/Jebao-CW-UV-Cl.../dp/B00UB5SYD4


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Old 03/10/2016, 01:23 PM   #3278
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Pants reported problems with getting dinos alive at his doorstep and I think he said something about shipping here on RC or his website.


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Old 03/10/2016, 01:57 PM   #3279
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That's the answer - ship your tank... all dinos will die.



Sorry - a little bad humor always helps when things are rough.


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Old 03/10/2016, 02:37 PM   #3280
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My work has a lab so I stole one of these sample jars. I'm going to put it in a box with those hand warmers things and bubble wrap. Can't believe I'm trying to keep these things alive.


As for my tank, still only getting a slight dusting on the glass, mixed with green algae, every couple of days. The "dustings" get noticeably worse when I force myself to do a water change. I think I'm done getting those long brown bubbly strands on rocks and gravel (knock on wood).

Here's a picture of the back glass that i won't clean so I can send a sample to Taricha. Green mixed with the brown. Picture is bad, it's has more brown spots than it appears. Then full tank shot to show it is beatable!






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Old 03/10/2016, 04:48 PM   #3281
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Originally Posted by sinful View Post
i tried finding a reference to a $100 uv. I'm all in on a UV working, I'm actually about to purchase one of the emperor aquatics 18 or 25w. From everything I've read a cheap uv does nothing? Maybe I missed it? Would be great if that was wrong, I'd rather not spend triple that on one if a cheaper one works??
I think I paid $42 for this one. Ran it for a few days and Dinos in remission...


http://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcost...power-head-24w


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Old 03/10/2016, 05:48 PM   #3282
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Originally Posted by Dfee View Post
Can't believe I'm trying to keep these things alive.
Hehe. This thread is so full of crazy.
We hate water changes, love algae, pour peroxide, skimmate, and miracle grow in our tanks while overfeeding and starving our tanks in week long darkness.

Thanks for contributing to the insanity!


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Old 03/10/2016, 06:27 PM   #3283
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taricha,
How is the sand bed transplant idea/project coming along?


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Old 03/10/2016, 10:11 PM   #3284
karimwassef
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Originally Posted by taricha View Post
Hehe. This thread is so full of crazy.
We hate water changes, love algae, pour peroxide, skimmate, and miracle grow in our tanks while overfeeding and starving our tanks in week long darkness.

Thanks for contributing to the insanity!
well.. when you put it that way








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Old 03/11/2016, 07:32 AM   #3285
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Heres a picture of mine. I've been battling them for at least 6 months. This is only one day after completely siphoning them out. They completely disappear at night and are back during the day. I've tried everything I've read to try, short of the UV. I just purchased an 18w emperor aquatics to run on my 57g. Hopefully have it online this weekend. I don't have a positive ID on them but it definitely killed all my snails. Hermits and emerald crabs seem to be fine though.

Steps I've tried
1. 3 day blackout (this cleared the tank for about a day. I noticed small patches by that night and by the next day it was business as usual for them.
2. Dino X ( this worked incredibly well, completely rid my tank for a week, and then all hell broke loose and they came back stronger than ever) increasing dosage had no effect.
3. Hydrogen peroxide 1-2ml per gallon has had no effect.

So my plan of attack this round is going to be the UV, blackout and Dino X.




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Old 03/11/2016, 07:36 AM   #3286
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Originally Posted by Fish Keeper82 View Post
taricha,
How is the sand bed transplant idea/project coming along?
The sandbed is ready to go in.
After I siphoned all visible dinos from my DT into the cultured sand, 24 hrs later there were about as many dinos inside the guts of other organisms as there were free swimming dinos. 48 hours, dinos were hard to find.
I'll try to get a microscope video of all the benthic heterotrophs among the sand grains in the cultured sand bed.

I'm not ready for the transplant yet, though. I'm trying to get an established culture of my dinos in a beaker before I wipe them out in my tank.


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Old 03/11/2016, 02:01 PM   #3287
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Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Get an ATS!!
I would say this is the best advise... I think an ATS has more to do with your success getting rid of dinos, not the uv filter.



Last edited by jweist; 03/11/2016 at 02:09 PM. Reason: got the quote part wrong
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Old 03/11/2016, 05:58 PM   #3288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
Hehe. This thread is so full of crazy.
That may be so, but we come by it honestly...


Quote:
01/06/2016, 08:16 AM #2547
Quiet_Ivy

Reefing is the definition of empirical science (We do stuff this way and it works but we don't really know why and can't prove it)
Implicit in that observation is the fact that along the way, we try doing a lot of stuff and it doesn't work. Hence karimwassef's rather trenchant sig, I would imagine, and hence a fair chunk of the crazy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
I've been thinking about what sort of things change between day 4 and day 10 of darkness. I'd expect die off of various things to significantly pick up making lots of nutrients available to bacteria etc.
And maybe it's not the issue that there's a different mechanism that takes effect between days 4 and 10. Maybe it's just the math of exponential growth: 2 to the 3rd is only 8, but 2 to the 10th power is 1024.
Yes, a blackout of any length is in essence beginning the change from a "sunlit" to a cryptic ecosystem, and then aborting the process. Heterotrophs rule in the darkness, and a new ecosystem emerges in which, lacking primary producers, the lowest trophic level consists of detrivorous bacteria and protists. Or at least, a new ecosystem begins to emerge... Obviously, the process won't get very far, but as you pointed out the shift would proceed pretty quickly on the micro level because there's lots of food around and microorganisms can reproduce like crazy when conditions are favorable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
Also, you mentioned a hypothetical benthic heterotrophic dino species. Do we know of any such species? I haven't run across one.
Well, I haven't put any time into investigating heterotrophic dinos for their own sake, but this popped when I Googled "benthic heterotrophic dinoflagellate": http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...26042000202154

This was also in the top 10 hits: http://www.phycologia.org/doi/abs/10...884-41-4-382.1

I've always assumed there's a diverse population of benthic heterotrophic dinos on wild reefs, some cross-section of which is present in any hobby system, in part because there are hundreds and hundreds of species of heterotrophic dinos so it seemed likely that some of them had adapted to the benthic environment, and in part because of stuff like this:


Quote:
08/21/2015, 02:40 AM #1570
34cygni

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molecular data and the evolutionary history of dinoflagellates
The importance of dinoflagellates in aquatic communities is hard to overestimate. They are ubiquitous in marine and freshwater environments, where they constitute a large percentage of both the phytoplankton and the microzooplankton, and in benthic communities as interstitial flora and fauna or as symbionts in reef-building corals, other invertebrates and unicellular organisms (Taylor, 1987).
Emphasis mine. Translated from Science, that means both mixotrophic ("flora") and heterotrophic ("fauna") dinos like to live in the little gaps between sand grains.
FWIW, such evidence as we have (which pertains to free swimming dinos) indicates that heterotrophic dinos and small ciliates are the least effective predators on mixotrophic dinos...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Growth, Feeding and Ecological Roles of the Mixotrophic and Heterotrophic Dinoflagellates in Marine Planktonic Food Webs
Therefore, in MIRs [Maximum Ingestion Rates] and MCRs [Maximum Clearance Rates] of the predators on MTDs [MixoTrophic Dinoflagellates], the general sequence was copepods > large ciliates = the larvae of benthos > small ciliates = HTDs [HeteroTrophic Dinoflagellates].
...so they're probably not the dominant predators in a blacked-out system. Though on the other hand, I expect heterotrophic dinos and small ciliates can bloom, too, meaning they could overwhelm a population of mixotrophic dinos with sheer numbers if given time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha
The sandbed is ready to go in.
After I siphoned all visible dinos from my DT into the cultured sand, 24 hrs later there were about as many dinos inside the guts of other organisms as there were free swimming dinos. 48 hours, dinos were hard to find.
I'll try to get a microscope video of all the benthic heterotrophs among the sand grains in the cultured sand bed.

I'm not ready for the transplant yet, though. I'm trying to get an established culture of my dinos in a beaker before I wipe them out in my tank.
Are the dinos in your tank growing back quickly enough to keep up with demand? Bear in mind that the dino-killing organisms you've got need dinos to eat. Without food, their population may die back and your carefully cultivated sand could lose its punch.

--

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinful
So my plan of attack this round is going to be the UV, blackout and Dino X.
Part of the crazy around here is acknowledging that dinos are waaaay better at chemical warfare than we are, which means if you go that route, you may find that it actually turns 180 degrees on you and ends up helping the dinos.


Quote:
08/22/2015, 01:35 PM #1589
cal_stir

First let me say I used algaeX to try to rid my bubble algae, HUGE mistake, it TOTALLY DECIMATED my micro fauna and brought on my dinos.
As I understand it, AlgaeX and DinoX contain the same active ingredient, which would explain the similar results...


Quote:
Originally Posted by sinful
2. Dino X ( this worked incredibly well, completely rid my tank for a week, and then all hell broke loose and they came back stronger than ever) increasing dosage had no effect.
You're not the first to observe this -- at this point, DinoX may do nothing more than select for dinoflagellates that are immune to DinoX. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the widespread application of chemical fixes like DinoX over the years has had a role in selecting for particularly troublesome dinos like ostis, ultimately creating an even worse version of the problem they were meant to solve.

But all that having been said, the combination of UV + H2O2 was played with in 2013 and '14 and abandoned, perhaps because it wasn't yet apparent that when you knock your dinos back, you have to follow through to keep them down -- nobody has tried UV + DinoX that I'm aware of, so who knows? There may be a synergy there, too, and having already nuked your tank more than once, nuking it again probably won't make things worse. But the follow through may be a problem, what with the fallout and all... Meaning that I don't know how effective going dirty or dosing phyto would be with an algicidal chemical in the mix.


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Old 03/11/2016, 06:06 PM   #3289
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I would say this is the best advise... I think an ATS has more to do with your success getting rid of dinos, not the uv filter.
well.. that's like saying you need to focus on breathing, not eating... You need many things to work together to win.




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Old 03/11/2016, 07:03 PM   #3290
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What's up guys. I've been missing in action for a few weeks, maybe a month. Want to know why? Because I've decided that these little bastards will never die. And you just gotta learn to live with them.


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Old 03/11/2016, 08:33 PM   #3291
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What's up guys. I've been missing in action for a few weeks, maybe a month. Want to know why? Because I've decided that these little bastards will never die. And you just gotta learn to live with them.

Ha. Sounds like a good relationship you have there.


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Old 03/11/2016, 09:29 PM   #3292
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A few questions if anyone can answer...

1. Are dinos affected by calcium or alkalinity? Every time I dose, I see a bit of a bloom.
2. Does running blue LED's instead of white affect the dinos?
3. How long do dinos have to be in fresh water to die? If I start my tank over, I would like to keep my zoas.

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Ha. Sounds like a good relationship you have there.
I hate this crap! lol no relationship there. Dinos are like the girl who keeps stalking you, even though you told her no a million times.


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Old 03/11/2016, 09:40 PM   #3293
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Are the dinos in your tank growing back quickly enough to keep up with demand? Bear in mind that the dino-killing organisms you've got need dinos to eat. Without food, their population may die back and your carefully cultivated sand could lose its punch.
That could become an issue. Passive things I've been doing in my tank (like growing lots of macro - chaeto and caulerpa) have slowed the dino growth in the DT, so it's a valid concern.
If anyone has a substitute dino sized - 10-50 micron round particulate - food in mind, that would be helpful.
I currently toss in skimmate, fish food, and dead phyto.

Here's a vid of my sandbed on 40x for a shot of what sorts of things are in there.
https://youtu.be/24s9IjAwTqM


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Old 03/12/2016, 02:51 AM   #3294
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Here's a vid of my sandbed on 40x for a shot of what sorts of things are in there.
https://youtu.be/24s9IjAwTqM
It's a busy and fascinating world.
I wonder what a behavioral science would make of it.
Those that move seem to be on a mission and the dark masses hubs.


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Old 03/12/2016, 10:38 AM   #3295
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well.. that's like saying you need to focus on breathing, not eating... You need many things to work together to win.
I agree that a multi pronged approach to fighting these things is definitely a good thing to do... however I feel like there is a lot of talk about the uv sterilizer being the answer but I think it would only do little to combat the dinos without using the ATS as well. In my experience it's much easier to out-compete these things with algae than try to eliminate them all together. All I'm saying is that if you can't find anything to kill the dinos then might as well try an ATS. It worked for me and clearly has worked for you too.


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Old 03/12/2016, 11:48 AM   #3296
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likewise, using an ATS alone didn't work. In fact, one of the first indicators of a dino infestation is the death of an ATS...


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Old 03/12/2016, 02:44 PM   #3297
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I agree that a multi pronged approach to fighting these things is definitely a good thing to do... however I feel like there is a lot of talk about the uv sterilizer being the answer but I think it would only do little to combat the dinos without using the ATS as well. In my experience it's much easier to out-compete these things with algae than try to eliminate them all together. All I'm saying is that if you can't find anything to kill the dinos then might as well try an ATS. It worked for me and clearly has worked for you too.
How would you make one for say a biocube 29?


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Old 03/12/2016, 03:06 PM   #3298
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How would you make one for say a biocube 29?

Is it the one with the window in the back? Where the bioballs would normally go?


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Old 03/12/2016, 04:02 PM   #3299
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Is it the one with the window in the back? Where the bioballs would normally go?
Yes.


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Old 03/12/2016, 04:10 PM   #3300
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Is there any way to clean zoas of dinos? I have colony of about 80 rastas that I would like to transfer to new tank if I tear this one down.


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