LED Recommendation Thread - Page 2

brassmonkyballs · 07/09/2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamf25

You have the same tank as I have and you are running a very similar led build!! I have 13 cw, 13 nw, 4 blue, and 39 rb running of 5 eln's all retrofitted into a 48 inch fixture, no optics, about 4 inches over the water. Works awsome.

Awesome...4" off you are getting alot of PAR! In retrospect I wish I went with more nw to cw just because the cw are so baddass powerful and throwing a little warmer nw is probably pretty beneficial. I was playing around this evening and holding some 60 degree optics over certain LEDs and noting the difference which is shocking. When I wake up in the morning I'm going to put some on the front row only and only the RBs for my next experiment....get that penetration down to the sand! I don't need them but I have to experiment man!

brassmonkyballs · 07/09/2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bedroomgangsta

No optics at all? So just basically the white pad with the led on it? What would be best to get the most spread/least spotlight effect for my 36" tank on a 24" heat sink? Do you think going dimmable is the best right off the bat because I can control the color or if I did ask for more RB leds and less CW on a constant driver @ less cost would that be as effective? The cost is my main issue so Im trying to conserve, granted they pay for themselves in short time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bedroomgangsta

Also, would you recommend the drilled and tapped heat sink, or the one that is not? With a 15$ price difference is the D&T sink easier to put together or would I be fine with the solid one? I wanted to try and keep this under 250$ for the build and eventually add on to it, such as a controller, more led's etc...

I'm not using any optics on a large build and the fixture is 8" off the water and the tank is 24" deep. I suggest more RBs AND dimmable drivers. Dimmable drivers are a MUST in IMO. You will want to adjust the color mix...you just have to believe me on it. If anyone else here has experience they can chip in.

I don't recall how much that D&T heatsink cost but if you are a little bit handy and own a drill you can get the same size undrilled heatsink from heatsinkusa.com and drill it yourself. I don't tap anymore. I found that a #40 drill makes a perfect hole for a #4 sheet metal screw. They screw right in with no tapping. I'm pretty sure you could save a bunch of money that way. Tapping yourself is a major pain and i've done but this way is a snap.

If you want to use optics get the 80 degree but as I said before it really depends how high off the water your fixture will be.

goby1kenobi · 07/09/2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brassmonkyballs

Recap:
18 Cree CW
6 Cree NW
50 Cree RB
MW HLG 120-42B running the whites and 6 RBs
MW HLG 185-42B running 44 RBs

Good grief. Can you please translate? What are all the acronyms?

brassmonkyballs · 07/09/2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goby1kenobi

Good grief. Can you please translate? What are all the acronyms?

Sure...that was copied from the DIY thread I posted in and we all use those acronyms...sorry.

The numbers are the quantities.

Cree is the LED manufacturer.

CW - Cool White is the color temperature (although there's multiple temps within cool white that the LED manufactures call Bins.....but we won't go there

)

NW - Neutral white - another temperature

RB - Royal Blue - specific color that emits a wavelength in the 450nm range which is a good thing and provides actinic coloring

MW is short for Meanwell which is the manufacturer of the drivers (ballasts) we use to power the LEDs

HLG 185-42 or HLG 120-42 are the model of the drivers manufactured by Meanwell

Hope that helps....didn't want to get techy on this thread but just pitch in as a viable alternative.

clowndude · 07/10/2011, 05:34 AM

BrassMonkey, if you don't mind me asking what did the entire DIY project cost?

Bedroomgangsta · 07/10/2011, 08:54 AM

Thank you guys so much for the excellent input. I wouldnt mind hanging the fixture close to the surface but my only concern is I feel like I may have to hang it higher considering its a 36" tank with a 23" heat sink. Unless not using optics counteracts the spread by putting it that much closer to the surface...which in a sense would result in more PAR would it not?

Bedroomgangsta · 07/10/2011, 09:04 AM

Also, on heatsinkusa.com would I be better off getting a 8"x36" and spacing the LED's out more with 24 of them, or getting a 8"x24" and keep them closer together? Is it completely necessary to hold them in place via bolts/screws? Does the thermal epoxy work or is it just a PITA? Heatsinkusa.com has wicked cheap prices and with a little bit of work I could drill and tap it in no time for way less cost. Whats the best plan? Sorry about all the questions but this is my first DIY LED and I want it to be done right and not invest a bunch of money into a POS.

brassmonkyballs · 07/10/2011, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bedroomgangsta

Thank you guys so much for the excellent input. I wouldnt mind hanging the fixture close to the surface but my only concern is I feel like I may have to hang it higher considering its a 36" tank with a 23" heat sink. Unless not using optics counteracts the spread by putting it that much closer to the surface...which in a sense would result in more PAR would it not?

You want a heatsink shorter than your tank. The LED spread around 100 degrees without optics so coverage is not really an issue unless you hang it high....in which case you need tighter optics to focus the light down. I like to go 4-6" shorter on each end of the fixture. So my 48" 120g has a 36" heatsink. Though I probably should have done 40 but its lit all around just some shadows on the ends from the rocks. Don't be too concerned about PAR...you will have more than you need. maybe a 28" heatsink for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bedroomgangsta

Also, on heatsinkusa.com would I be better off getting a 8"x36" and spacing the LED's out more with 24 of them, or getting a 8"x24" and keep them closer together? Is it completely necessary to hold them in place via bolts/screws? Does the thermal epoxy work or is it just a PITA? Heatsinkusa.com has wicked cheap prices and with a little bit of work I could drill and tap it in no time for way less cost. Whats the best plan? Sorry about all the questions but this is my first DIY LED and I want it to be done right and not invest a bunch of money into a POS.

Keep the LEDs about 2" apart and each row about 3" apart...seems to always work well for me. Again....I don't tap I just drill a #40 hole and use #4 sheet metal screws with little #4 nylon washers under them which I get at Ace hardware. The thermal epoxy works fine but then think if you ever want to replace, remove, change colors, etc....you can't get them off (though some people will tell you a hammer and screw driver works for that which makes me cringe)...but its totally up to you....epoxy is the fastest way to put them on.

Take your time and ask the questions and it won't be a POS but rather a real nice light fixture.

brassmonkyballs · 07/10/2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clowndude

BrassMonkey, if you don't mind me asking what did the entire DIY project cost?

Sure its not like I got special places to get stuff from but I just hunt for the best prices.

With the sources I use I got all the LEDs for under $300, the drivers were around $110 each, and I think the heatsink was around $100 so call it $600 not counting the odds and ends of screws, fuses, wire, solder, etc which depends on what you have laying around...call it another $50 if you don't have any of it.

Lipitor · 07/10/2011, 12:17 PM

People are still using XR-E but every year CREE has something new it seems. XP-G and now XM-L.

Here is some data on the 3 main CREE models. The XR-E Q5 CW, the XP-G R5 CW, and the XM-L T6 Cool White

As you can tell, the new models use less power but put out more light. In the long run, they will be cheaper than the older models.

As you can see from the above graph, as more amperage is used, there is less and less light given out by the older CREE models. The XR-E Q5 at 1 amp puts out only 67% of what the XP-G CW would at 1amp and only 60% of what the XM-L CW. That means you have to use almost twice the number of XR-E CW to match an XM-L cool white. This is not taking into consideration how much voltage you have to pump into that little XR-E just to get 60% of the XM-L light which is show below.

You can tell quickly by the graph as the amperage goes up, the XR-E uses much more voltage than the XP-G and XM-L. At 1 amp, the XR-E uses 3.7v which is 10% more than the XP-G and a whopping 23% more than the XM-L. That means if you have a 48V driver running at 1mp you can only put 12 XR-E CW or 14 XP-G CW or 16 XM-L CW. That means for the same cost of powering 12 XR-E CW which give you 2824.8 lumen you could be powering 16 XM-L CW which would give you 6208 lumens. See how quickly this adds up? Less power, more light, that is what LEDs are all about. This is why efficiency is so important. Every minute you have a non efficient LED wired up, it is costing you money.

Now this is just the CREE LEDs. Other non CREE LEDs are often much less efficient than the oldest CREE LED

Sfiligoi is the best pendant in the market now. They are using Cree LED and T5 combine (Hybrid). They also have RGB LED install in the fixture for the option. It can control by Apex or Profilux, it also comes with their SFILIGOI controller. It can control every thing as well as like AI controller. T5 & all LEDs are dimmable.

Lipitor · 07/10/2011, 12:19 PM

LED TESTING pictures by redfishnc - Photobucket

here is the best thing you can read

brassmonkyballs · 07/10/2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lipitor

LED TESTING pictures by redfishnc - Photobucket

here is the best thing you can read

Lipitor that is an awesome link....i need to look at it closer but Thanks!

moondoggy4 · 07/10/2011, 02:43 PM

Tagging along

brassmonkyballs · 07/10/2011, 02:46 PM

Good info you're adding here Lipitor. I made a Royal Blue only supplement bar for a friend who added it over his 150 with his T5s and it looks very nice and he's raving to anyone that will listen. So its a good point on that combo of LEDs with T5's.

The tricky part of the XMLs is that to get the most out of them you really have to up the current. True you can get more than an XPG at the same current but the cost difference doesn't justify it unless you push them....and then they are so bright I wouldn't know what to do with them. I know someone is just finishing up a build with some of them at 2000ma so it will be interesting to get his thoughts. He's actually using XPGs and XPE RBs as well.

Felixc395 · 07/10/2011, 07:48 PM

Thanks lipitor, good stuff!

Anyone who needs help with ideas in LED's post them here! Let's keep these good conversations going. Anything LED related is welcome!!!

bif24701 · 07/10/2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brassmonkyballs

Good info you're adding here Lipitor. I made a Royal Blue only supplement bar for a friend who added it over his 150 with his T5s and it looks very nice and he's raving to anyone that will listen. So its a good point on that combo of LEDs with T5's.

The tricky part of the XMLs is that to get the most out of them you really have to up the current. True you can get more than an XPG at the same current but the cost difference doesn't justify it unless you push them....and then they are so bright I wouldn't know what to do with them. I know someone is just finishing up a build with some of them at 2000ma so it will be interesting to get his thoughts. He's actually using XPGs and XPE RBs as well.

From what I understand however occupied run the XMLwith a lower current you can get more lumens with less energy add more life, correct? That is why I am looking for CREE XM-L LEDs

Bedroomgangsta · 07/11/2011, 07:24 AM

Yeah thats why I have been asking so many questions. I think I will go with no optics then and try to keep it a little closer to the tank. I may just drill the sink myself just as you said, seems easy and maybe with the little money I save on the sink I can add a couple more LEDs to my order

Bedroomgangsta · 07/11/2011, 06:47 PM

Can a meanwell/led's be controlled with a potentiometer or will that only work on the dimmable drivers?

brassmonkyballs · 07/11/2011, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bedroomgangsta

Can a meanwell/led's be controlled with a potentiometer or will that only work on the dimmable drivers?

You a dimmable driver AND a potentiometer

Felixc395 · 07/11/2011, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bif24701

From what I understand however occupied run the XMLwith a lower current you can get more lumens with less energy add more life, correct? That is why I am looking for CREE XM-L LEDs

I believe LEDsupply.com has them. I'm not sure if I said that in this thread yet, so sorry if I'm repeating myself and being rude. That isn't my intention at all.

But I couldn't see a better DIY LED setup then with cree's and the XM-L is just really awesome.

If you build a fixture, make sure to post pics here, I would be more than eager to see!

Jerad · 07/11/2011, 11:13 PM

I believe the cree bulbs from rapidled have 120 degree optics as default and not 100 degree

brassmonkyballs · 07/12/2011, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerad

I believe the cree bulbs from rapidled have 120 degree optics as default and not 100 degree

I think whites are 100degree and royal blues 120....

brassmonkyballs · 07/12/2011, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bif24701

From what I understand however occupied run the XMLwith a lower current you can get more lumens with less energy add more life, correct? That is why I am looking for CREE XM-L LEDs

Yes but they are $10 vs $5 for the XPG. That was my point in not being able to justify them. I'm not saying don't use them just for the cost difference they are not for me unless I ran them up in the 2000ma range. I'm not worried about life either because LEDs are rated for a very long life already. Keeping them cool is the key.

Scott70454 · 07/12/2011, 07:00 AM

Hey guys,

I have been reading for about two days and come to the assumption to once again, ask the experts...

Current Set up =
29 Gallon Tank - Clownfish & anemone only
30L x 12-1/2" W x 20 T
2 (ea) T8 "white light" bulbs
2(ea) T5 "blue light" bulbs

LFS says I need a LED Moonlight strip too.... SO here is the question, my current set up is part of the hood so I don't really have anywhere to put another LED light Fixture. Please guys, can you point me in the right direction? I was under the assumption my current lighting set up was a good set up, but it does lack the luster of the color the LFS LED lighting provided.

Can anyone give me a solution that keeps my current setup, but provides a good "moonlight" alternative?

Scott70454

reeferstace · 07/12/2011, 08:54 AM

Can someone recommend a link for "LED's for dummies"? I know NOTHING about them except I may want to put them over my 300g.

07/10/2011, 12:17 PM	#35
Lipitor Registered Member. Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 4	People are still using XR-E but every year CREE has something new it seems. XP-G and now XM-L. Here is some data on the 3 main CREE models. The XR-E Q5 CW, the XP-G R5 CW, and the XM-L T6 Cool White As you can tell, the new models use less power but put out more light. In the long run, they will be cheaper than the older models. As you can see from the above graph, as more amperage is used, there is less and less light given out by the older CREE models. The XR-E Q5 at 1 amp puts out only 67% of what the XP-G CW would at 1amp and only 60% of what the XM-L CW. That means you have to use almost twice the number of XR-E CW to match an XM-L cool white. This is not taking into consideration how much voltage you have to pump into that little XR-E just to get 60% of the XM-L light which is show below. You can tell quickly by the graph as the amperage goes up, the XR-E uses much more voltage than the XP-G and XM-L. At 1 amp, the XR-E uses 3.7v which is 10% more than the XP-G and a whopping 23% more than the XM-L. That means if you have a 48V driver running at 1mp you can only put 12 XR-E CW or 14 XP-G CW or 16 XM-L CW. That means for the same cost of powering 12 XR-E CW which give you 2824.8 lumen you could be powering 16 XM-L CW which would give you 6208 lumens. See how quickly this adds up? Less power, more light, that is what LEDs are all about. This is why efficiency is so important. Every minute you have a non efficient LED wired up, it is costing you money. Now this is just the CREE LEDs. Other non CREE LEDs are often much less efficient than the oldest CREE LED Sfiligoi is the best pendant in the market now. They are using Cree LED and T5 combine (Hybrid). They also have RGB LED install in the fixture for the option. It can control by Apex or Profilux, it also comes with their SFILIGOI controller. It can control every thing as well as like AI controller. T5 & all LEDs are dimmable. Last edited by Lipitor; 07/10/2011 at 12:45 PM.

07/11/2011, 11:13 PM	#46
Jerad Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 38	I believe the cree bulbs from rapidled have 120 degree optics as default and not 100 degree __________________ Mathematics and Statistics Undergraduate Student at Winona State

07/12/2011, 07:00 AM	#49
Scott70454 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 13	LFS says I need "moonlight" LED Hey guys, I have been reading for about two days and come to the assumption to once again, ask the experts... Current Set up = 29 Gallon Tank - Clownfish & anemone only 30L x 12-1/2" W x 20 T 2 (ea) T8 "white light" bulbs 2(ea) T5 "blue light" bulbs LFS says I need a LED Moonlight strip too.... SO here is the question, my current set up is part of the hood so I don't really have anywhere to put another LED light Fixture. Please guys, can you point me in the right direction? I was under the assumption my current lighting set up was a good set up, but it does lack the luster of the color the LFS LED lighting provided. Can anyone give me a solution that keeps my current setup, but provides a good "moonlight" alternative? Scott70454

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07/10/2011, 05:34 AM	#30
clowndude Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 760	BrassMonkey, if you don't mind me asking what did the entire DIY project cost?

07/10/2011, 08:54 AM	#31
Bedroomgangsta Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 337	Thank you guys so much for the excellent input. I wouldnt mind hanging the fixture close to the surface but my only concern is I feel like I may have to hang it higher considering its a 36" tank with a 23" heat sink. Unless not using optics counteracts the spread by putting it that much closer to the surface...which in a sense would result in more PAR would it not?

07/10/2011, 09:04 AM	#32
Bedroomgangsta Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 337	Also, on heatsinkusa.com would I be better off getting a 8"x36" and spacing the LED's out more with 24 of them, or getting a 8"x24" and keep them closer together? Is it completely necessary to hold them in place via bolts/screws? Does the thermal epoxy work or is it just a PITA? Heatsinkusa.com has wicked cheap prices and with a little bit of work I could drill and tap it in no time for way less cost. Whats the best plan? Sorry about all the questions but this is my first DIY LED and I want it to be done right and not invest a bunch of money into a POS.

07/10/2011, 12:19 PM	#36
Lipitor Registered Member. Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 4	LED TESTING pictures by redfishnc - Photobucket here is the best thing you can read

07/10/2011, 02:43 PM	#38
moondoggy4 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: menifee So cal Posts: 11,042	Tagging along

07/10/2011, 02:46 PM	#39
brassmonkyballs BMB Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Space Coast - Florida Posts: 471	Good info you're adding here Lipitor. I made a Royal Blue only supplement bar for a friend who added it over his 150 with his T5s and it looks very nice and he's raving to anyone that will listen. So its a good point on that combo of LEDs with T5's. The tricky part of the XMLs is that to get the most out of them you really have to up the current. True you can get more than an XPG at the same current but the cost difference doesn't justify it unless you push them....and then they are so bright I wouldn't know what to do with them. I know someone is just finishing up a build with some of them at 2000ma so it will be interesting to get his thoughts. He's actually using XPGs and XPE RBs as well.

07/10/2011, 07:48 PM	#40
Felixc395 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,612	Thanks lipitor, good stuff! Anyone who needs help with ideas in LED's post them here! Let's keep these good conversations going. Anything LED related is welcome!!!

07/11/2011, 07:24 AM	#42
Bedroomgangsta Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 337	Yeah thats why I have been asking so many questions. I think I will go with no optics then and try to keep it a little closer to the tank. I may just drill the sink myself just as you said, seems easy and maybe with the little money I save on the sink I can add a couple more LEDs to my order

07/11/2011, 06:47 PM	#43
Bedroomgangsta Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 337	Can a meanwell/led's be controlled with a potentiometer or will that only work on the dimmable drivers?

07/12/2011, 08:54 AM	#50
reeferstace I'm a little people Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Over Yonder Posts: 1,392	Can someone recommend a link for "LED's for dummies"? I know NOTHING about them except I may want to put them over my 300g.