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05/29/2016, 12:19 PM | #3701 |
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DNA, sorry that the slow flow UV doesn't work in your tank.
It might be that we need to start matching different dino strains and the treatments that work for them. Maybe even with a species like Ostis, some can be eradicated with UV. In your case, the fact that is seems to make it worse may indicate that you have multiple strains at once. The UV may be killing some, but that may encourage others to bloom to replace them. Did you go dark with slow flow UV? Did you use a skimmer afterwards? It would help to understand your approach and align it with your strains.
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05/30/2016, 06:11 AM | #3702 | |||
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Mine went reverse. I never saw an osti until I got rid of my amphidinium. And PREDATION. I think it's an under appreciated key to sand-dwelling dino control. That was the key for getting rid of my amphidinium, lots of dino predators that could remove the dinos once I slowed their growth rate. I've seen ciliates of several different genera having ingested dinos, and I've also seen your micro polycheate worms in my sand too, coinciding approximately with the time that the amphidinium disappeared from the sand. And although I've never seen large numbers of dinos in their opaque gut, I had lots of pods too. And the literature says pods (moreso) and ciliates (less, usually) are important predators of dinos in the wild. Ostis on the other had, with their ability to attach in strings to high flow areas far away from the substrate does a good job of insulating them from predators. Not that some things won't eat them given the opportunity (I have shots of ciliates that love munching ostis) just that osti's growth habit lessens those opportunities. |
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05/30/2016, 07:06 AM | #3703 | |
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As for my peroxide Osti testing, it might be a few weeks before I have anything else since the summer brings maintenance work time when my testing space can be put off limits.
The question seems pretty dang straightforward: What level of single-dose H2O2 kills ostreopsis? (Can figure out multi smaller doses, and what else dies at those doses later) It's not that simple. Going to list all doses in ml H2O2 per Liter of tank water. Did concentrations of .8ml/L, .7, .6 and .5 Found that in each beaker 100% of dinos had stopped moving by 30 min after, and many of the ostis lost their theca. I thought hmmm, I guess tomorrow I can continue testing lower doses, but I better check first to see if they somehow recovered overnight (I had read some stuff about cells repairing oxidation damage in the dark). Next day, the dinos that didn't lose their theca had recovered overnight in all 4 beakers. Quote:
So next the one question becomes 2: what peroxide level to kill ostis in the dark, and what level kills them in the light? And probably since I'm already dealing with what would pretty much be considered crazy peroxide levels for a tank, I'm just going to look into what levels kill ostis in a well-lit condition. side note: I don't know if this is already recommended usage for H2O2 - I haven't gotten far enough in the peroxide treatment thread yet, but it seems like any application of peroxide to kill photosynthetic stuff should be done in bright light to reduce the amount of H2O2 required. |
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05/30/2016, 07:38 AM | #3704 |
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Do you feel like elevating no3 and po4 made a difference for you? Unless it's just timing I feel like it's the single thing I've done with the biggest impact. Could just be timing though.
If they have lost there theca are they dieing? I have a bunch that I don't see a theca around. Last edited by Kurt03; 05/30/2016 at 07:59 AM. |
05/30/2016, 10:22 AM | #3705 | ||
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Higher N and P did not make dinos stop. They do just fine with lots of N and P, but so does algae. Elevated N and P was crucial for growing lots of algae in my system, which provided large diversity of grazers of dinos, and the algae also consumed trace elements that the dinos needed and slowed dino growth. So yes, elevated N and P was important. Quote:
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05/30/2016, 10:28 AM | #3706 |
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Just got home and uncovered my tank again. I did a 3 day total blackout last week and then covered the tank back up with cardboard when I left to go camping. The rocks are even less brown than before but still not spotless like the sand. Still nothing stringy. So far so good though, no smell to the tank and i'm back to dosing Microbacter7 and phyto. Turning on moonlights now, i'll post an update in a few days.
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05/30/2016, 10:39 AM | #3707 |
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Good to hear about the n+p. My thoughts as well with it more feeding competitors and not directly affecting the Dino's.
Ahh, I'm guessing I just couldn't see the theca on most of these, being I could see theca on some ostis I was thinking the ones I didn't see theca didn't have it. I guess I could add a drop of fresh water to the slide and see if I notice more theca's The snot brown crap on the back glass of my tank is the unknown circle things, ostis are on egg crate and in a few stringy masses. I'll try another section on RC to get an I'd on those, might help in how to fight them. I think I'm close to doing a big syphon cleaning of the tank, then lights out a few days and start scrubbing and moving coral to the rescue tank. Need to take a few samples of the rescue tank and make sure I see lots of micro fauna. Thinking out loud here, any thoughts on the effect koralcolor would have? A couple other threads I'm following it seems to be helping control nuisance algae (also improving sps color), not sure if it would limit Dino competitors, or possibly limit Dino's.. for example, 100ppm nitrate sps tank, that still has solid colors and no algae. My brain is having a hard time accepting 100ppm no3 without adverse affects in a reef tank..... I think the speculated ingredient that is making a difference is manganese. |
05/30/2016, 10:41 AM | #3708 | |
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05/30/2016, 12:27 PM | #3709 | |
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I'm also seeing some kind of fast moving, yellow pill-shaped things which appear to be able to bend and change shape. They're roughly the same size as our mystery yellow discs. The Amphidinium near the center of the frame in video 2 can be used as a size reference.
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05/31/2016, 09:54 AM | #3710 |
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Tagging along for help. Recently had a dino outbreak. Ive tried raising ph to 8.4, blackout and h202. In the process of pulling rock that does not have sps and dipping in freshwater. Microscope coming today for identification..
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05/31/2016, 03:56 PM | #3711 | |
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Water params? Nitrates & Phosphates especially. You're doing the right thing. Manual removal of the vast majority is important for whatever steps come next. edit: Also, this is my own personal curiosity. Most everyone's dinos seem to look less bad just as lights come on, and at their worst after several hours of full lights, but I haven't actually observed a system with a big stringy mess, and how it changes through a day. Do you have pics right at lights on, vs afternoon full light? Last edited by taricha; 05/31/2016 at 04:02 PM. |
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05/31/2016, 06:33 PM | #3712 |
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First 4 weeks i spent cleaning off the rock with a toothbrush. Dinos would return every 3-4 days. Then i tried a 72 hour blackout. I saw no reduction after the blackout. Next came the h202. I started 1ml per 10 gallons once a day and saw no change for 2 weeks straight. I bumped up to 3ml per 10 gallons for the next two weeks, again no change. I tried dosing carbon via vitamin c and saw a huge increase in 24 hours. I also swapped out brs gfo for rhowaphos. (No change noticed). I spent a couple weeks doing 20% wc and they seemed to come back faster. I now have gone 3 weeks no water change and they seem to come back slower. That picture was around 5pm after a week of ignoring the tank and a day after I forgot to turn my mp40 back on. I also bought kno3 and dosed nitrates from .02 to 2ppm. The battle has been going strong for 5 months.
The tank is a 65 gallon rr with 10 gallon sump. The tank is barebottom (HDPE) and the dinos are only on the rock. All the rock started a base rock from reefcleaners. Maxspect razor 160 led, reef octopus nwb150 and mp40. I only dose kalkwasser atm. Dinos started after dosing aquavitro fuel. Paramters. 80 degrees PH 8.3-8.4 1.025 salinity 420 cal 9 alk 1320 mag Phos 0 Ammonia/nitrite 0 Nitrate .02 at start, 2 now What I've tried Blackout - no impact Reduced feedings - no impact H202 - no impact Increased feeding - more film algae Increased nitrates - no impact Daily water change - increase in dinos Vit c dosing - increase in dinos Rhowaphos- no impact Remove carbon - huge increase dinos (ran out for 2 days) I have a hunch the dinos are brought on by a bacteria inbalance and fed by carbon. I just bought the zeovit system to see what happens.. Last edited by rrueger; 05/31/2016 at 06:43 PM. |
06/01/2016, 08:40 AM | #3713 | |
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06/01/2016, 11:05 AM | #3714 |
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Started to see some dusting on my sand again and decided to take a sample before getting too discouraged. I was surprised to see almost nothing but diatoms in the slide. I am seeing the occasional Amphidinium but the diatoms present are far more abundant. Is it okay to have a small number of these dinos? Are they present in small amounts in everyone's tank? Or will they eventually bounce back since some still remain?
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06/01/2016, 11:18 AM | #3715 |
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I had the same question after testing a second tank I'm going to use to rescue coral from my Dino tank. Tested a small patch of what I thought was cyano just to make sure and there is some ostis in it. Allot of other stuff though. My guess is that it's common in new setups and recovering systems, and is OK as long as numbers are small. I'd love to hear someone else's opinion.
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06/01/2016, 11:32 AM | #3716 | |||
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You aren't the first to be dosing aquavitro fuel (it's a mix of lots of difference vitamins and trace elements) when dinos arrived. If you decide to go "dirty method" I'd recommend elevating both N and P. Quote:
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It seems like in systems dominated by bacteria (carbon dosing, zeo, etc) dinos have an ability to shape the bacterial community to their liking and can thrive to problem levels. This is a super-crazy-oversimplification but it really seems to be generally true in our systems: call it Rock-Paper-Scissors - Dinos beat bacteria beats algae beats dinos. If you have lots of algae, dinos don't thrive. If you grow lots of bacteria to outcompete algae, then you are at risk of the possibility of dinos taking control of the bacteria. |
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06/01/2016, 11:47 AM | #3717 | ||
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06/01/2016, 12:00 PM | #3718 |
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Ok, I'll break out the flame thrower! Does it look like cyano to you in my picture? Also wanted to thank you for all the time you spend responding to our questions!
I just stumbled across this, any thoughts on it IDing the round unknown spheres? http://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/blog...encing-results Last edited by Kurt03; 06/01/2016 at 12:07 PM. |
06/01/2016, 12:37 PM | #3719 | |
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06/01/2016, 01:01 PM | #3720 | |
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Thanks. I can't resist a tricky puzzle. Wish all our responses were actual answers, but for every handful of cases that establish clear trends (slow flow UV kills ostis!) there's a frustrating exception (DNA's super-mutant ostreopsis that's immune to a million watt slow flow UV for months...[horror movie narrator]...coming this summer to a LFS near you AAAAGH! ) Just understand that there isn't a consensus here on most of this stuff - getting closer though. Just trends, reports, and finding patterns in lots of people's experiences, and testing which patterns hold up to more intense scrutiny. |
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06/01/2016, 01:20 PM | #3721 | |
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rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank |
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06/01/2016, 02:53 PM | #3722 |
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Actually, DNA's Ostis feed on UV and get more powerful!! There's the horror story.
Like shooting lasers at Gojira and having him get bigger.
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06/01/2016, 04:33 PM | #3723 | |
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06/01/2016, 10:29 PM | #3724 | |
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Pulled the uv off line along with the rowasphos. Added some mangroves and an up flow ats. Turned my blues only up 10% per day currently at 40% blues and 5% whites for 4 hours a day. Run the ats and refug light for 8-12 hours on the off cycle of display. Still dosing microbater and algaefix marine and skimmer. Turning of the skimmer for 4 hours after dose. So far so good. What is left of the stringy Dino's is turning clear and white. I don't want to suck them out manually because I want to see what's left die and make sure it doesn't recover. I have not done a water change. Only top off with fresh ro/di. Also replacing Polly every 3 days. Added pods and cheato as well. Just my small price of the puzzle |
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06/02/2016, 10:06 AM | #3725 | |
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