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Unread 12/03/2018, 01:11 AM   #1
Meg rebreather
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Plumbing

Hi guys ... setting up new tank just finished the plumbing would like help on the location of pipe would this be ok ...
I'm using the beam overflow with 2 inlet and 1 emergency, not sure looking from the back my I take to tank would work...
Ant option please?

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Unread 12/03/2018, 01:14 AM   #2
Meg rebreather
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Originally Posted by Meg rebreather View Post
Hi guys ... setting up new tank just finished the plumbing would like help on the location of pipe would this be ok ...
I'm using the beam overflow with 2 inlet and 1 emergency, not sure looking from the back are the return on? please?

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Unread 12/03/2018, 11:18 AM   #3
mcgyvr
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Can you ask your questions again?
Please try paying a bit more attention to spelling, punctuation and the construction of complete sentences this time.


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Unread 12/03/2018, 01:25 PM   #4
Meg rebreather
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Sorry was in a bit of a hurry...
I need to know if my plumbing on the back for the return is ok before I glue the pipes, the return die is 32mm I have a Core 20 pump....


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Unread 12/03/2018, 01:55 PM   #5
jacksonpt
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I would add valves to each side of the return.


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Unread 12/03/2018, 03:11 PM   #6
bblumberg
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Originally Posted by Meg rebreather View Post
Sorry was in a bit of a hurry...
I need to know if my plumbing on the back for the return is ok before I glue the pipes, the return die is 32mm I have a Core 20 pump....
1. Put a gate valve (not a ball valve) in the line you intend to be the full siphon
2. Cut the length of the pipes entering the sump such that they will extend 1" below the planned water level. Shorter will lead to lots of splashing, longer will make it difficult for the full siphon to purge air to get started.
3. I'd put the ball valve you are taking off on the emergency overflow line. You may never need this but it is good to be able to close off all lines for maintenance if necessary.
4. Consider using larger pipe for the return line. The larger the pipe, the lower the resistance to flow. For example, if your pump has a 1" outlet, I'd use 1 1/4" pipe.

Otherwise, looks like a good plumbing job.


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Current Tank Info: 150G mixed reef (6x Blue Acro 20K Pro COB LEDs, 4x 80W T5 supplement), 150g fw discus (T5 lighting), 110G fw Angelfish (DIY LED lighting), 4 x 40 g frag tanks (DIY LED).
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Unread 12/03/2018, 04:41 PM   #7
shellsea
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I am by no means a plumbing expert but many on this forum are and may agree or disagree but the return line looks like it may create a problem. With the center of the T feeding one side before the split goes to the other side pressure will not be balanced, in my opinion.


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Unread 12/03/2018, 05:16 PM   #8
Lsufan
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I am by no means a plumbing expert but many on this forum are and may agree or disagree but the return line looks like it may create a problem. With the center of the T feeding one side before the split goes to the other side pressure will not be balanced, in my opinion.
There really isn’t a need for the 2 returns to be balanced but if that is the preference then adding a ball valve on each individual return like mentioned above will do the trick. By closing one it will create head pressure & send more flow to the other.


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Unread 12/03/2018, 09:27 PM   #9
Meg rebreather
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Gate valves are hard to get here in Australia that why I have the ball vales they are very easy to turn...
Should I only have the ball valve on the full sihpon?



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Unread 12/04/2018, 09:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meg rebreather View Post
Gate valves are hard to get here in Australia that why I have the ball vales they are very easy to turn...
Should I only have the ball valve on the full sihpon?
Yes, that is correct.


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Unread 12/04/2018, 04:18 PM   #11
bblumberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meg rebreather View Post
Gate valves are hard to get here in Australia that why I have the ball vales they are very easy to turn...
Should I only have the ball valve on the full sihpon?



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You only need a valve on the full siphon, but it does not hurt to have them on all 3 in case you need to shut off all three. 2 of my 3 Bean Animal systems have a single gate valve on the siphon whereas the newest one has valves on all 3.


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Current Tank Info: 150G mixed reef (6x Blue Acro 20K Pro COB LEDs, 4x 80W T5 supplement), 150g fw discus (T5 lighting), 110G fw Angelfish (DIY LED lighting), 4 x 40 g frag tanks (DIY LED).
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Unread 12/04/2018, 04:21 PM   #12
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ps. I see King Brothers gate valves on Amazon.com.au They cost more than in the US, but are not silly high priced like the Spears valves.


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Current Tank Info: 150G mixed reef (6x Blue Acro 20K Pro COB LEDs, 4x 80W T5 supplement), 150g fw discus (T5 lighting), 110G fw Angelfish (DIY LED lighting), 4 x 40 g frag tanks (DIY LED).
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Unread 12/04/2018, 08:56 PM   #13
Lsufan
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If u have valves on the open channel or emergency make sure u leave them fully open. They aren’t needed but they won’t hurt eighther. With all the 90’s u have in your drains I would leave them on both the syphon & open channel. If u have issues purging the air from the drain because of all the 90’s it gives u a option to try & switch the open channel & syphon drains around. I wouldn’t worry much about a gate valve. Ball valve will work fine in the majority of setups. While a gate valve is definitely easier to fine tune a ball valve will work fine in most setups. When it can be a issue is if u have a really small overflow box & u need to make the slightest of adjustments.

A bunch of people are using the ghost type overflow boxes now & where people make a mistake is putting a small 12” overflow on a big 5’ or 6’ tank because the box says it can handle the gph they plan on running. The smaller the overflow box the more inconsistent it will be & that is when a gate valve may be a must. It’s just one of the reasons it’s best to use as long of a overflow box as possible & don’t go by how many gph it states the box can handle.



Last edited by Lsufan; 12/04/2018 at 09:01 PM.
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Unread 12/05/2018, 12:41 AM   #14
Meg rebreather
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This is all very helpful guys (keep it coming)I will be installing another valve on the emergency pipe ...
Still not sure whether I should chance the outlet return pipe to a bigger pipe @ present it is 32mm ....


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Unread 12/06/2018, 12:35 PM   #15
bblumberg
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Originally Posted by Meg rebreather View Post
This is all very helpful guys (keep it coming)I will be installing another valve on the emergency pipe ...
Still not sure whether I should chance the outlet return pipe to a bigger pipe @ present it is 32mm ....
32mm for a return line sound like a good size. What is the GPH of the pump?


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Current Tank Info: 150G mixed reef (6x Blue Acro 20K Pro COB LEDs, 4x 80W T5 supplement), 150g fw discus (T5 lighting), 110G fw Angelfish (DIY LED lighting), 4 x 40 g frag tanks (DIY LED).
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Unread 12/06/2018, 07:46 PM   #16
Meg rebreather
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Originally Posted by bblumberg View Post
32mm for a return line sound like a good size. What is the GPH of the pump?
I have a Core 20 think it's 1700 GPH,
I have changed the return from 32mm to 40mm they are inside sump tank now pics still to come!

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Unread 12/06/2018, 08:18 PM   #17
bblumberg
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Quite big enough, I think. I only mentioned the size because it seemed much smaller compared to the drain sizes. You should have plenty of flow both into and out of the tank.


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Current Tank Info: 150G mixed reef (6x Blue Acro 20K Pro COB LEDs, 4x 80W T5 supplement), 150g fw discus (T5 lighting), 110G fw Angelfish (DIY LED lighting), 4 x 40 g frag tanks (DIY LED).
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Unread 12/07/2018, 12:55 AM   #18
Meg rebreather
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I have changed my mind gone back to 25mm for return I have 2 pipes going back out to the top like in the pics...






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Unread 12/10/2018, 07:38 AM   #19
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I still recommend valves on each of the returns.


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Unread 12/28/2018, 03:09 AM   #20
Meg rebreather
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I still recommend valves on each of the returns.
where to the return side or in the sump?


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Unread 12/28/2018, 05:01 PM   #21
Meg rebreather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bblumberg View Post
1. Put a gate valve (not a ball valve) in the line you intend to be the full siphon
2. Cut the length of the pipes entering the sump such that they will extend 1" below the planned water level. Shorter will lead to lots of splashing, longer will make it difficult for the full siphon to purge air to get started.
3. I'd put the ball valve you are taking off on the emergency overflow line. You may never need this but it is good to be able to close off all lines for maintenance if necessary.
4. Consider using larger pipe for the return line. The larger the pipe, the lower the resistance to flow. For example, if your pump has a 1" outlet, I'd use 1 1/4" pipe.

Otherwise, looks like a good plumbing job.

Hi again you mentioned cutting the pipes which pipes are you referring to I have 3 , also is the emergency pipe ok where I have it?


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Unread 12/28/2018, 09:11 PM   #22
bblumberg
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What I meant was that the pipes entering the sump (full siphon and open channel) should not extend more than 1" below the normal water level of the sump. If more than this, it will be difficult, if not impossible for the pipes to purge air and establish the siphon. Similarly, the emergency should not extend much, if any below the water level of the chamber it is in. You want it to be noisy to alert you that something is wrong. Mine is in the same chamber as the other 2 pipes, but I don't think this is essential since this line should only carry water in rare instances.


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Current Tank Info: 150G mixed reef (6x Blue Acro 20K Pro COB LEDs, 4x 80W T5 supplement), 150g fw discus (T5 lighting), 110G fw Angelfish (DIY LED lighting), 4 x 40 g frag tanks (DIY LED).
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Unread 12/29/2018, 01:53 AM   #23
Meg rebreather
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Originally Posted by bblumberg View Post
What I meant was that the pipes entering the sump (full siphon and open channel) should not extend more than 1" below the normal water level of the sump. If more than this, it will be difficult, if not impossible for the pipes to purge air and establish the siphon. Similarly, the emergency should not extend much, if any below the water level of the chamber it is in. You want it to be noisy to alert you that something is wrong. Mine is in the same chamber as the other 2 pipes, but I don't think this is essential since this line should only carry water in rare instances.


https://photos.google.com/search/_tr...zsmChcAsG-LKUI

How does this look ...
Core pump only @20% like to get more flow in the tank but if I crank the core pump up I'm worried the sump return will flood...


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Unread 12/30/2018, 02:20 PM   #24
bblumberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meg rebreather View Post
https://photos.google.com/search/_tr...zsmChcAsG-LKUI

How does this look ...
Core pump only @20% like to get more flow in the tank but if I crank the core pump up I'm worried the sump return will flood...
I can't see the photo for some reason. Your 1" full siphon should be able to handle 2000 gph+ based on information from BeanAnimal's web site.
http://www.beananimal.com/articles/h...-aquarist.aspx
I am assuming here 1" pipe, full siphon, 4' drop from the overflow level to the water level in the sump.


Your pump, running at 100% and assuming 5' of head from the bottom of the sump to the inlet should move around 1500 gph
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/cor-2...e-systems.html

Adjust these assumptions to match your tank, but they should be close. Therefore, unless the intended water level in your sump is quite high, I don't see how you will easily overflow the return or the sump with this configuration.

I'd open the gate valve on the full siphon fully and crank up your return pump, paying careful attention to the water level in both the overflow and the sump. Obviously, if it looks like you will flood the overflow, back off the flow or shut it down. Set the return pump power such that you have as much flow running back into the tank as you want, then adjust the gate valve on the full siphon so that you get some water coming through the open channel. I like my water level to be about half way up the elbow of the open channel. Neither of my pumps can keep up with the capacity of the full siphon when the gate valve is all the way open.

I set return pipe entry into the tank height so that when the power is off, the maximum amount of water to be returned to the sump still leaves some gallons of extra capacity. For me, this is a safer approach than relying on a valve to prevent backflow down the return to the sump when power is off...

Having said all that, I would not use the return pump to produce the desired flow in the tank. That is what powerheads are for. You should plan to run 5-10x the tank volume through the sump per hour.


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Current Tank Info: 150G mixed reef (6x Blue Acro 20K Pro COB LEDs, 4x 80W T5 supplement), 150g fw discus (T5 lighting), 110G fw Angelfish (DIY LED lighting), 4 x 40 g frag tanks (DIY LED).
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Unread 12/30/2018, 07:04 PM   #25
Meg rebreather
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Hi Bruce..
I have the valve fully open on both pipes going into the sump but yet pump is only running 20%...also looking to put a manifold for my chiller where would you suggest to fit ....


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