Safe Zoas?

kayaaandjaden · 08/13/2006, 07:42 PM

I didn't read the whole thing, but I read enough to "believe" that there are dangers associated with the toxins in zoas.
So my questionis this....are there any know "safe" zoas.
My husband and I have 3 children and one on the way. We are currently setting up a 92 reef tank and we love zoas. We had/have full intentions of making them an addition to our tank. If at all possible, after reading the threads posted here, we would like to stay away from the more "dangerous" ones. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Blitz99 · 08/13/2006, 08:02 PM

not to sound like a smart A$$ but do you really expect your children to A. be able to get into the tank and
B. actually try to ingest the zoos?

kayaaandjaden · 08/13/2006, 08:14 PM

Not to sound like a smart A$$, but did you really think that is what I meant?
No, Blitz99, as a concerned parent I realize that all the talking in the world, -may- not prevent me from one day finding one of them with thier hands in there.
And, - IF- I can prevent some toxins from being introduced to my tank, then I plan to do so.
You may have been trying to be funny, but you actually did come off as an a$$.
I am sure, I am not the only person who has wondered what zoas are less toxic than others.
A. I don't think it is an obsurd question.
B. I didn't think anyone would assume that I was stupid enough to would allow my children to ingest items from my tank.
-k

msman825 · 08/13/2006, 08:27 PM

I dont think it's a silly ?? I have kids my self and i got a pad lock on my tank. NOT just for kids but for ANYONE. BUT ME

love2 There's a few people on hear that can really answer you ?? Good point though

twon8 · 08/13/2006, 08:30 PM

zoas arent' really as dangerous as they are made out to be imo. i have handled thousands with my bare hands. but the truth is no one really knows which ones are toxic. palythoa toxica are known to be very toxic, but as to zoas, im not aware of anything detailing the various toxicities.

and you really need to find a way to keep your kids out of the tank, locks if necessary. they will likely do more damage to the tank than the tank can do to them.

kayaaandjaden · 08/13/2006, 08:32 PM

msman825, thank you

I understand that some people think the whole "zoa toxin" thing is blown out of proportion. I really don't know enought to tell you how dangerous they are, or aren't. I just hope those that can really answer the question find this thread. Thanks.

kayaaandjaden · 08/13/2006, 08:37 PM

twon8
The tank isn't even set up yet. And it is much taller than any of the children, coule easily reach. But, I do have 3 of them, and another one the way. My children are well disciplined, but children are children. Just being precautious.
But, thank you for atleast addressnig the issue of the zoas.

msman825 · 08/13/2006, 09:04 PM

I would go with a stand with doors. and a canopy on top and do like i got mine LOCKS on BOTH. I came home from work one day and or 5 year old telling me, She feed the fish today. I looked and a peanut butter sanwich was going through my max 1200's. I GOT canopy and locks very soon

idea

camz28 · 08/14/2006, 08:51 AM

i have 3 kids from 9 to 2 and half 3 tanks one is 29gal zoo tank and i have no problem with the kids they actually want to help me out and they love to look at it all the time and of course i had to train them not to do anything bab to it , so i would go ahead and set up the tank so everyone would enjoy it good luck and let us know what happens

kayaaandjaden · 08/14/2006, 09:49 AM

I really wish I wouldn't have mentioned the kids. I don't really expect to have any real problems with the children. I had -JUST- read the thread on zoa toxins and wondered if there were any that produced relatively low to no toxins, that all.
-Most- of you have been very nice with your replys, but I am not getting much in lines of an answer to the "real" question. So, I am going to try and get the thread removed and research on my own. I didn't really want the communications to be about how to keep my kids out of the tank.....I can handle that....I just wanted to know about the zoas. Thanks to those of you who have been kind.
-k

twon8 · 08/14/2006, 11:07 AM

the reason no one has addressed the question is that no one really knows the answer, and if anyone says they do, unless they work in a lab and have conducted experiments, they are full of it.

OCDP · 08/14/2006, 11:21 AM

Exactly. Twon8 answered your question above... there's no way to know which are "more" toxic than others. There's too many zoos out there.

The simplest solution is to wear gloves. Don't handle the zoos with bare hands. Gloves are a simple fix.

kayaaandjaden · 08/14/2006, 03:21 PM

Ok...thanks...With all the "controvesy" over it, some saying one thing and others saying another...
I am sure we will most likely introduce them to our tank at somepoint, they are too many lovely ones not to. For right now, we have A LOT to focus on, just to get up and running properly.
Thanks for your imput

One question, do they excrete the toxins into the water? I had seen where someone had said to wear arm-length gloves.

psidriven · 08/14/2006, 03:27 PM

From what I read there is confusion whether zoa's produce the toxins or simply concentrate it from dinoflaglettes (sp?). So since no way to tell if one zoa is more toxic than another and no reports of aquarists dying from zoa's yet, I'd think your safe. Just lock everything you can and teach your kids to respect the tank. From my previous experiences as a child, I can say that I got into everything that was not locked and even a few that were.

kayaaandjaden · 08/14/2006, 03:37 PM

I was that kind of kid too. The older ones, know better, and the younger ones would need a ladder...... they will learn too, before they are big enough to get into it

Thanks

Nagel · 08/15/2006, 04:59 PM

Ok, First off, Blitz99. Another attempt at using $$'s to evade the profanity filter will earn you a time out. And Kayla, even though Blitz used it first, it doesn't make it right for you to use it as well. The profanity filter is there for a REASON, and that is this is a family friendly board.

Next, on the toxicity. Nobody can provide a definitive answer unfortunately. Yes, palythoa toxica is a known one to be toxic, and while it is not the brightest color (its brown / tan), it still shows up for sale from time to time. As for the zoanthids toxicity (the palythoa mentioned above is a palythoa, not a zoanthid), there is no way to keep track of which are and which are not, and even more so when you consider they can shift colors under different lighting.

The best defense is a good offense I say. Educate the little ones, put childproof locks on your cabinet and/or hood, and just be vigilent.

I've also handled thousands of zoanthids, and fragged just as many, and only been "tagged" (poisoned) once. Not really bad, a little numbness for a day or so, and the taste of copper in your mouth, but with children, I understand the "potential danger". It still would not prevent me from keeping them, I would just be pro active in educating my children and protecting them if I do not know the toxicity.

RokleM · 08/15/2006, 07:37 PM

I agree completely with Nagel.

In addition I'd like to add, it has a LOT to do with the person, not the coral itself. For example, a local guy who has done a LOT of fragging has never gotten "tagged", but got hit twice by the same type. I actually have a frag of his and although I wasn't cutting on it, I had it all over my hands and felt no ill impact even after not washing my hands for a half an hour.

So yes, educate as much as possible, and make sure you and all your family members don't put their hands in with open wounds. I can't stress enough making sure you wash your hands/arms after you're done.

DiViNeLeFT · 08/16/2006, 05:28 PM

zoas arnt the only thing to worry about either. diseases that are passed from fish to human and bacteria infections have room for concern as well. there is a good thread going in our local reef club forum about some of the dangers of not wearing gloves. i personally dont wear gloves when working in my tank but after seeing the picture of this guys thumb in the first link of the thread, it makes me want to get a pair of gloves real quick.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=906729

Reef Junkie · 08/16/2006, 08:38 PM

I have a 92 Gallon bowfront tank, zoanthids, palythoa and two 3 yr old children.
They have been taught to respect the tank or else.

I have locked the stand and it's backed up to the corner. The tank has a high canopy, so it will be difficult for them to get in.

Just be cautious and good luck!

Mariepbr · 04/30/2018, 05:15 AM

Zoas can release toxic airborne chemicals when removed from the water. They can be fatal and even affect pets. Be aware when handling out of the water or transferring.

DivingTheWorld · 04/30/2018, 09:51 AM

Agreed there is a lot of confusion around what exactly is toxic and what isn't. I have young children and don't think it's ridiculous to consider them when planning what to put in your reef tank. I have.

My understanding (and I am no biologist) is that there are two general types of "zoas" commonly seen in the hobby, Zoanthid and Palythoa. While both can contain Palytoxin, those in the Palythoa family are the ones most likely to be dangerous.

Because I love zoas, I have some in our tank. But I keep to very well known common ones which I am fairly sure are from the Zoanthid family: Bam Bams, Rastas, Tubbs Blue, Fruitloops, BBEB, etc. That said, whenever I do any fragging, I make sure my kids are out of the room and use gloves, mask and goggles. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm the crazy guy you hopefully won't read about getting sick!

manilaboy1vic · 04/30/2018, 07:08 PM

im not aware of any safe ones.. but i have had zoas for a long time now with no issues.. ive touched them before while doing maint.. just wash your hands when you done..

ive touched zoas, washed my hands with soap and water, then cupped water in my hand and drank it multiple times.. i think you really have to do something crazy to get poisoined from one.. like touch it then rub your eyes or eat french fries without washing your hands

08/13/2006, 07:42 PM	#1
kayaaandjaden Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 311	Safe Zoas? I didn't read the whole thing, but I read enough to "believe" that there are dangers associated with the toxins in zoas. So my questionis this....are there any know "safe" zoas. My husband and I have 3 children and one on the way. We are currently setting up a 92 reef tank and we love zoas. We had/have full intentions of making them an addition to our tank. If at all possible, after reading the threads posted here, we would like to stay away from the more "dangerous" ones. Does anyone have any suggestions?

08/13/2006, 08:27 PM	#4
msman825 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: maine Posts: 1,301	I dont think it's a silly ?? I have kids my self and i got a pad lock on my tank. NOT just for kids but for ANYONE. BUT ME love2 There's a few people on hear that can really answer you ?? Good point though __________________ MSMAN

08/13/2006, 08:30 PM	#5
twon8 Formally registered membe Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: slightly sw of richmond, va Posts: 5,920	zoas arent' really as dangerous as they are made out to be imo. i have handled thousands with my bare hands. but the truth is no one really knows which ones are toxic. palythoa toxica are known to be very toxic, but as to zoas, im not aware of anything detailing the various toxicities. and you really need to find a way to keep your kids out of the tank, locks if necessary. they will likely do more damage to the tank than the tank can do to them. __________________ Anthony Richmond Reef Club "and as things fell apart, nobody paid much attention." Not building a wall but making a brick Current Tank Info: 300g DD display, 60g frag tank

08/13/2006, 09:04 PM	#8
msman825 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: maine Posts: 1,301	I would go with a stand with doors. and a canopy on top and do like i got mine LOCKS on BOTH. I came home from work one day and or 5 year old telling me, She feed the fish today. I looked and a peanut butter sanwich was going through my max 1200's. I GOT canopy and locks very soon idea __________________ MSMAN

08/14/2006, 09:49 AM	#10
kayaaandjaden Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 311	It isn't about the kids.... I really wish I wouldn't have mentioned the kids. I don't really expect to have any real problems with the children. I had -JUST- read the thread on zoa toxins and wondered if there were any that produced relatively low to no toxins, that all. -Most- of you have been very nice with your replys, but I am not getting much in lines of an answer to the "real" question. So, I am going to try and get the thread removed and research on my own. I didn't really want the communications to be about how to keep my kids out of the tank.....I can handle that....I just wanted to know about the zoas. Thanks to those of you who have been kind. -k

08/13/2006, 08:02 PM	#2
Blitz99 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 271	not to sound like a smart A$$ but do you really expect your children to A. be able to get into the tank and B. actually try to ingest the zoos?

08/13/2006, 08:14 PM	#3
kayaaandjaden Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 311	Not to sound like a smart A$$, but did you really think that is what I meant? No, Blitz99, as a concerned parent I realize that all the talking in the world, -may- not prevent me from one day finding one of them with thier hands in there. And, - IF- I can prevent some toxins from being introduced to my tank, then I plan to do so. You may have been trying to be funny, but you actually did come off as an a$$. I am sure, I am not the only person who has wondered what zoas are less toxic than others. A. I don't think it is an obsurd question. B. I didn't think anyone would assume that I was stupid enough to would allow my children to ingest items from my tank. -k

08/13/2006, 08:32 PM	#6
kayaaandjaden Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 311	msman825, thank you I understand that some people think the whole "zoa toxin" thing is blown out of proportion. I really don't know enought to tell you how dangerous they are, or aren't. I just hope those that can really answer the question find this thread. Thanks.

08/13/2006, 08:37 PM	#7
kayaaandjaden Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 311	twon8 The tank isn't even set up yet. And it is much taller than any of the children, coule easily reach. But, I do have 3 of them, and another one the way. My children are well disciplined, but children are children. Just being precautious. But, thank you for atleast addressnig the issue of the zoas.

08/14/2006, 08:51 AM	#9
camz28 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: EDISON, NJ Posts: 846	i have 3 kids from 9 to 2 and half 3 tanks one is 29gal zoo tank and i have no problem with the kids they actually want to help me out and they love to look at it all the time and of course i had to train them not to do anything bab to it , so i would go ahead and set up the tank so everyone would enjoy it good luck and let us know what happens

08/14/2006, 11:07 AM	#11
twon8 Formally registered membe Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: slightly sw of richmond, va Posts: 5,920	the reason no one has addressed the question is that no one really knows the answer, and if anyone says they do, unless they work in a lab and have conducted experiments, they are full of it. __________________ Anthony Richmond Reef Club "and as things fell apart, nobody paid much attention." Not building a wall but making a brick Current Tank Info: 300g DD display, 60g frag tank

08/14/2006, 11:21 AM	#12
OCDP Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Eh? Posts: 2,759	Exactly. Twon8 answered your question above... there's no way to know which are "more" toxic than others. There's too many zoos out there. The simplest solution is to wear gloves. Don't handle the zoos with bare hands. Gloves are a simple fix. __________________ aaaaaaaannddd.......... I'm broke. Current Tank Info: 20g Mixed Reef / 130w Coralife PC's / Koralia, Seio PH's / AquaC Nano / AC50 /

08/14/2006, 03:21 PM	#13
kayaaandjaden Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 311	Ok...thanks...With all the "controvesy" over it, some saying one thing and others saying another... I am sure we will most likely introduce them to our tank at somepoint, they are too many lovely ones not to. For right now, we have A LOT to focus on, just to get up and running properly. Thanks for your imput One question, do they excrete the toxins into the water? I had seen where someone had said to wear arm-length gloves.

08/14/2006, 03:27 PM	#14
psidriven Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Westside Taipei Posts: 1,292	From what I read there is confusion whether zoa's produce the toxins or simply concentrate it from dinoflaglettes (sp?). So since no way to tell if one zoa is more toxic than another and no reports of aquarists dying from zoa's yet, I'd think your safe. Just lock everything you can and teach your kids to respect the tank. From my previous experiences as a child, I can say that I got into everything that was not locked and even a few that were. __________________ Trying to learn to read Chinese. Current Tank Info: 24 cube a go, baby walks

08/14/2006, 03:37 PM	#15
kayaaandjaden Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 311	I was that kind of kid too. The older ones, know better, and the younger ones would need a ladder...... they will learn too, before they are big enough to get into it Thanks

08/15/2006, 04:59 PM	#16
Nagel Old Salt... Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: West Milford, NJ Posts: 7,167	Ok, First off, Blitz99. Another attempt at using $$'s to evade the profanity filter will earn you a time out. And Kayla, even though Blitz used it first, it doesn't make it right for you to use it as well. The profanity filter is there for a REASON, and that is this is a family friendly board. Next, on the toxicity. Nobody can provide a definitive answer unfortunately. Yes, palythoa toxica is a known one to be toxic, and while it is not the brightest color (its brown / tan), it still shows up for sale from time to time. As for the zoanthids toxicity (the palythoa mentioned above is a palythoa, not a zoanthid), there is no way to keep track of which are and which are not, and even more so when you consider they can shift colors under different lighting. The best defense is a good offense I say. Educate the little ones, put childproof locks on your cabinet and/or hood, and just be vigilent. I've also handled thousands of zoanthids, and fragged just as many, and only been "tagged" (poisoned) once. Not really bad, a little numbness for a day or so, and the taste of copper in your mouth, but with children, I understand the "potential danger". It still would not prevent me from keeping them, I would just be pro active in educating my children and protecting them if I do not know the toxicity. __________________ "Who ARE you people!?!" "Got Prime Rib?" "Hold your children close." Jim Hobbs Current Tank Info: Tankless :( for now....

08/15/2006, 07:37 PM	#17
RokleM Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 9,687	I agree completely with Nagel. In addition I'd like to add, it has a LOT to do with the person, not the coral itself. For example, a local guy who has done a LOT of fragging has never gotten "tagged", but got hit twice by the same type. I actually have a frag of his and although I wasn't cutting on it, I had it all over my hands and felt no ill impact even after not washing my hands for a half an hour. So yes, educate as much as possible, and make sure you and all your family members don't put their hands in with open wounds. I can't stress enough making sure you wash your hands/arms after you're done. __________________ -Eric-

08/16/2006, 05:28 PM	#18
DiViNeLeFT Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hornell, NY Posts: 225	zoas arnt the only thing to worry about either. diseases that are passed from fish to human and bacteria infections have room for concern as well. there is a good thread going in our local reef club forum about some of the dangers of not wearing gloves. i personally dont wear gloves when working in my tank but after seeing the picture of this guys thumb in the first link of the thread, it makes me want to get a pair of gloves real quick. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=906729

08/16/2006, 08:38 PM	#19
Reef Junkie Premium Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Somewhere, NY Posts: 6,595	I have a 92 Gallon bowfront tank, zoanthids, palythoa and two 3 yr old children. They have been taught to respect the tank or else. I have locked the stand and it's backed up to the corner. The tank has a high canopy, so it will be difficult for them to get in. Just be cautious and good luck! __________________ Bill "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." B.B. Current Tank Info: "Still" Living vicariously through cb747

04/30/2018, 05:15 AM	#20
Mariepbr Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 1	Zoas can release toxic airborne chemicals when removed from the water. They can be fatal and even affect pets. Be aware when handling out of the water or transferring.

04/30/2018, 09:51 AM	#21
DivingTheWorld Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: San Ramon, CA Posts: 1,963	Agreed there is a lot of confusion around what exactly is toxic and what isn't. I have young children and don't think it's ridiculous to consider them when planning what to put in your reef tank. I have. My understanding (and I am no biologist) is that there are two general types of "zoas" commonly seen in the hobby, Zoanthid and Palythoa. While both can contain Palytoxin, those in the Palythoa family are the ones most likely to be dangerous. Because I love zoas, I have some in our tank. But I keep to very well known common ones which I am fairly sure are from the Zoanthid family: Bam Bams, Rastas, Tubbs Blue, Fruitloops, BBEB, etc. That said, whenever I do any fragging, I make sure my kids are out of the room and use gloves, mask and goggles. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm the crazy guy you hopefully won't read about getting sick! __________________ Current Tank Info: LeeMar Rimless (40x24x22), ATI 8x39 Dimmable w/Reefbrite XHO, 2x Vortech MP40w QD w/ Battery Backup, Apex Gold, Trigger Systems Ruby30S, Reef Octopus POV-DC1 w/Auto Waste Collector

04/30/2018, 07:08 PM	#22
manilaboy1vic Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Surf City USA Posts: 214	im not aware of any safe ones.. but i have had zoas for a long time now with no issues.. ive touched them before while doing maint.. just wash your hands when you done.. ive touched zoas, washed my hands with soap and water, then cupped water in my hand and drank it multiple times.. i think you really have to do something crazy to get poisoined from one.. like touch it then rub your eyes or eat french fries without washing your hands