Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 05/23/2018, 08:56 PM   #1
240gallons
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 258
30 years and about to give up.

I was raised with SW and Reef aquaria. I've done everything from show SPS tanks to owning and operating wholesale coral shops. I have always been successful even when importing difficult to care for coral.

Over the years I've downgraded my home system. Career and kids have taken priority. I'm now having the toughest times in reefing! Just when I thought things were going to get simple, I'm more frustrated than ever.

Zoanthids have been mostly closed since January.

My tank is fairly basic.. 75 AGA. My current "bullet proof" setup.

Toadstools

Zoanthids

Torch

Chalice

small hippo tang

False clown

damsels

It appears to me there is some serious coral warfare going on. Corals open after water changes, then close up 3 to 4 days later.
I'm wet skimming and running a carbon reactor. Water parameters have been tested and retested. I have "perfect water" according to every LFS and my own testing. I dose 2 part as needed.



What corals could be causing issues? What can I pull out to see if things improve.
I've changed out EVERYTHING except for the coral. (Rock, pumps, lights, etc)
Something in this tank is ****ed off, what is it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


240gallons is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/24/2018, 05:16 AM   #2
sde1500
Registered Member
 
sde1500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Glocester, RI
Posts: 3,336
Can you post numbers? What are your actual test results? What lights do you use? That is a pretty big shadow down the center of your tank, what is causing that? Zoanthids on the left side look fine, the right ones look unhappy, have you tried moving them?


__________________
My build thread:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2548422

Current Tank Info: 65 gallon mixed reef, Eshopps sump and HOB overflow, RO-110int skimmer, Reefbreeder 32" photons V1.
sde1500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/24/2018, 07:04 AM   #3
crawlerman
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 503
Looks like those palys are touching the toadstool, that could be causing the toadstool to respond with toxins. Leathers are known for that.


crawlerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/25/2018, 03:18 AM   #4
homer1475
Registered Member
 
homer1475's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 5,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by crawlerman View Post
Looks like those palys are touching the toadstool, that could be causing the toadstool to respond with toxins. Leathers are known for that.

Was just going to say this exact thing, but the OP is running carbon in a reactor so the toxins the leather is putting out should be soaked up by the carbon. Could still be the problem, cause I do see 2 in there.


__________________
80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

"He's just taking his lunch to work"
homer1475 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/25/2018, 06:12 AM   #5
elegance coral
They call me EC
 
elegance coral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: central Florida
Posts: 6,208
can you post a pic of the filtration?


__________________
"Most of the failures with marine aquaria are due to lack of knowledge of the biological processes that occur in the aquarium." Martin A. Moe, Jr.
"A scientist seeks the truth, wherever that may lead. A believer already knows the truth, and cannot be swayed no matter how compelling the evidence."

Current Tank Info: I'm trying to see how many tanks will fit in my house before the wife loses it.
elegance coral is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/30/2018, 05:04 PM   #6
240gallons
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 258
Thank you all for your interest in my issue. Although the toadstools are NOT touching any of the Zoanthids, I can see where they Toadstool heads have receded in areas where the were millimeters from touching zoanthid colonies. This must be causing some stress and potential warfare.

Today I cut off all toadstoods and mounted them on rubble in this was causing an issue

Please see my thread from January. Parameters are the same
Temp 74
ph 8.3 - 8.2
KH 10-12
Cal 380-400
TDS 0 on top off
Dose BRS 2 part

Using Chinese LEDs. (about 50%) The shadow is not visible to the naked eye, but is caused by the cross bar on the tank and a fan. I place my low light corals there.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2661266


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20180530_185837.jpg (79.8 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg 20180530_185632.jpg (67.8 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg 20180530_185659.jpg (68.2 KB, 117 views)
240gallons is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/30/2018, 05:09 PM   #7
240gallons
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 258
Pics

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


240gallons is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/31/2018, 03:19 AM   #8
ajoe
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 297
WoW. 30 years in the hobby and still reaching out to learn. I tip my hat. When you say you have "downgraded your home system" exactly what did that entail? It would be helpful to know then and now. I think we can all learn something here.


ajoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/31/2018, 11:23 AM   #9
240gallons
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajoe View Post
WoW. 30 years in the hobby and still reaching out to learn. I tip my hat. When you say you have "downgraded your home system" exactly what did that entail? It would be helpful to know then and now. I think we can all learn something here.
Here is a pic from 2008.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


240gallons is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/31/2018, 01:10 PM   #10
zachfishman
Registered Member
 
zachfishman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Posts: 3,577
I had a similar problem (corals slowly shrinking to nothing, no growth, briefly bouncing back after large water changes) and solved it by replacing my DIY plastic tub "food safe" sump with acrylic. The turnaround was immediate. I don't see any nameless plastics in your filtration picture, any hiding elsewhere?

An ICP test might be worthwhile to see if anything is releasing metals into your system.

I also had an old Koralia die recently - the shielding on the power cord wore away near where it attached to the pump. The tank was not happy with the stray current (and maybe some copper from the corroding lines). Worth checking.


__________________
Patience is a reefer's best tool.
Secret Xenia lover. M.S. Marine Biology
Staff - Marine Discovery Center, St. Petersburg FL
Tampa Bay Reef Club BOD 2018

Current Tank Info: 34g modded Solana
zachfishman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/31/2018, 04:26 PM   #11
ajoe
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachfishman View Post
I had a similar problem (corals slowly shrinking to nothing, no growth, briefly bouncing back after large water changes) and solved it by replacing my DIY plastic tub "food safe" sump with acrylic. The turnaround was immediate. I don't see any nameless plastics in your filtration picture, any hiding elsewhere?

An ICP test might be worthwhile to see if anything is releasing metals into your system.

I also had an old Koralia die recently - the shielding on the power cord wore away near where it attached to the pump. The tank was not happy with the stray current (and maybe some copper from the corroding lines). Worth checking.
Excellent suggestions zackfishman. With such a drastic change (beautiful tank in 2008 by the way) I would have to think chemistry is the issue. ICP testing and if possible check for any current in the tank. Both great places to start.


ajoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/09/2018, 04:20 AM   #12
jestronix
Registered Member
 
jestronix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachfishman View Post
I had a similar problem (corals slowly shrinking to nothing, no growth, briefly bouncing back after large water changes) and solved it by replacing my DIY plastic tub "food safe" sump with acrylic. The turnaround was immediate. I don't see any nameless plastics in your filtration picture, any hiding elsewhere?

An ICP test might be worthwhile to see if anything is releasing metals into your system.

I also had an old Koralia die recently - the shielding on the power cord wore away near where it attached to the pump. The tank was not happy with the stray current (and maybe some copper from the corroding lines). Worth checking.
I had a koralia magnets rust away, they changed to cheaper magnets and I had a major issue like yours till I found the cause


jestronix is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/16/2018, 04:35 PM   #13
George_n_Joanne
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3
Don't give up. You will regret it.


George_n_Joanne is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/05/2018, 08:55 PM   #14
NeverlosT
A bit fishy
 
NeverlosT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 416
changing rock and other bits may be keeping you in a constant "new tank" state. I think things may need to settle in a bit more, change less and give more space between corals and let a month or two go by, and keep the lights turned pretty low (the LEDs are strong!).

Hopefully things turn around, good luck!!!


NeverlosT is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/18/2018, 12:15 PM   #15
Silly clownfish
Registered Member
 
Silly clownfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 488
As for chemical warfare - leathers are know for releasing toxins when fragged. But the first thing I see as a threat in your tank is the torch. Euphyllia put out sweeper tentacles at night that can reach much further than what you see during the day and sting anything they can touch. I have definitely had problems with that. I use a rule of thumb that euphyllia needs to be at least 6” away from anything else I care about (it is allowed much closer to mushrooms). I sometimes position it so that my live rock is blocking it from reaching something else.

Kim


__________________
75g mixed reef, 20g sump, ocelaris clownfish (20+yrs old), flame hawk, one spot foxface rabbitfish, green mandarin, Bicolor Blenny, Coral Beauty;30g sumpless with Spotcinctus pair with RBTA

Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef, 20g sump, ocelaris clownfish (20+yrs old), flame hawk, one spot foxface rabbitfish, green mandarin, Bicolor Blenny, Coral Beauty;30g sumpless with Spotcinctus pair
Silly clownfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/18/2018, 04:30 PM   #16
Sk8r
RC Mod
 
Sk8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 34,628
Blog Entries: 55
Even carbon can't stop fullblown chemical warfare:I had a leather that would turn purple and tick off absolutely everything. Everything would shut.

OTOH, if you think you might have a case of old-tank-syndrome, where old situations are just continuing to be a problem, and piling on, you might consider first a dose of Reeflux (I had NO dieoff from it except pest algae of various sorts including bryopsis) followed by four weeks of waiting, intense skimming and filter-socking, followed by one 30% water change, and the next week another 30%. It's really helped my tank get out of the doldrums.


__________________
Sk8r

Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
Sk8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/22/2018, 05:39 PM   #17
David MC Lee
Registered Member
 
David MC Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South of Springfield IL.
Posts: 1,645
Look out for copper or brass getting into the tank. I spend a year once having to do water changes every two to three days. Turned out a new pump I was using had a brass seal that contains copper. Replaced the pump with different seals and the tank turned around in days.


David MC Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/24/2018, 07:54 AM   #18
LPS_Blasto
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by David MC Lee View Post
Look out for copper or brass getting into the tank. I spend a year once having to do water changes every two to three days. Turned out a new pump I was using had a brass seal that contains copper. Replaced the pump with different seals and the tank turned around in days.
WOW!! So sorry that happened to you. Water chages 2 or 3 times a week? I'd have thrown in the towel. Glad you got it fixed.


LPS_Blasto is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/10/2018, 02:04 AM   #19
laverda
Registered Member
 
laverda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 6,902
I really don’t think it is chemical warfare. Check all electrical equipment and magnets in the tank. I had a simaler problem for 6 months. One morning my ex tells me she saw a flash coming from the end of the tank. I imeadately removed my heater that was there. Turned out the seal on the heater failed. The inside of the heater came right out and was covered in black muck. The heater tub was filled with black stinky water. The heater had been sending electricity in to the tank every time it turned on( flash of light). My leathers started to look better the next day.
Another thing you might check is your water for chlorimines. Water districts change sources of water and how they treat it more often than you probably realize.
Good luck!


__________________
240G mixed reef, 29G SPS/LPS clam tank, 50G mixed reef

Current Tank Info: 300g mixed reef, 50g cube
laverda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/06/2020, 05:39 PM   #20
240gallons
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly clownfish View Post
As for chemical warfare - leathers are know for releasing toxins when fragged. But the first thing I see as a threat in your tank is the torch. Euphyllia put out sweeper tentacles at night that can reach much further than what you see during the day and sting anything they can touch. I have definitely had problems with that. I use a rule of thumb that euphyllia needs to be at least 6” away from anything else I care about (it is allowed much closer to mushrooms). I sometimes position it so that my live rock is blocking it from reaching something else.

Kim
Old thread but maybe it will help someone. It was the toadstool! Never thought a toad will create so much havoc. Thanks kim!

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


240gallons is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/06/2020, 07:36 PM   #21
Sk8r
RC Mod
 
Sk8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 34,628
Blog Entries: 55
Yeppers, carbon is a must when running leathers. We had a cabbage leather that could tick off everything in the tank in 5-4-3-2-1---


__________________
Sk8r

Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
Sk8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/23/2020, 02:08 PM   #22
Da_Neefer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: San Ramon
Posts: 16
WoW! Not experiencing issues but I had no idea leathers could do this. Great info and thank you!


Da_Neefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.