illumnae's SPS shallow reef - Page 4

illumnae · 02/15/2018, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscusHeckel

Oh man, this is a delightful picture. Thanks for sharing. It has brought back memories. My discus fish looked a little different compared to yours in that they did not have much "blue face". Also, I kept wild-caught Altum angels.

I used to be a South American cichlid nut. I also had blue/brown discus from Curuai, Alum angels, Atabapo and Tapajos pike cichlid pairs, panda uarus, various eartheaters and plenty of apistogramma. I really have to say those days were much more smooth sailing than when I switched to reefing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscusHeckel

Thanks for your reply. Looking back nine years ago, I must have followed the instructions because I do not remember any rinsing of the media. A 1000-ml tub of Ultra Phios arrived yesterday from Germany. I am going to replace PhosGuard with UltraPhos probably today. It is a real pain to remove all the dust from PhosGuard. It is just as bad Sachem Matrix carbon.

I use Fauna Marin carbon as well. It does have to be rinsed but a lot less than Seachem.

DiscusHeckel · 02/15/2018, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illumnae

I used to be a South American cichlid nut. I also had blue/brown discus from Curuai, Alum angels, Atabapo and Tapajos pike cichlid pairs, panda uarus, various eartheaters and plenty of apistogramma. I really have to say those days were much more smooth sailing than when I switched to reefing!

I use Fauna Marin carbon as well. It does have to be rinsed but a lot less than Seachem.

I find reefkeeping much more rewarding snd stimulating as I developed a vast knowledge base. In discus keeping, parameters are much more smaller and so are the scope of learning.

I use Vertex Rox 0.8 carbon, which is almost dust free.

illumnae · 02/18/2018, 10:43 AM

Vertex Rox 0.8 isn't easily available to me unfortunately.

I did my 2nd weekly dip yesterday. Took 1.5 hours including catching all the fish out to qt. I start the clock for fallow tomorrow and will do 12 weeks. There were still aefw flying off the sps this week, but noticeably less and smaller. I also saw what looked like unhatched eggs but will see again next week to be sure.

Luckily for me, despite using the harsher KCl as my dip of choice, the sps are not reacting badly to it. I've not had to adjust my calcium reactor at all and kh is still maintaining. I had expected consumption to drop during this period. PE is actually better than before the first dip.

I really hope this whole exercise is worth it.

E.intheC · 02/20/2018, 06:35 PM

Sorry to hear about the AEFW's.. Good luck! Your tank previously looked amazing

illumnae · 02/24/2018, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.intheC

Sorry to hear about the AEFW's.. Good luck! Your tank previously looked amazing

Thank you!

So I just completed my 3rd dip. Is it normal to still be finding aefw eggs at this stage? I found 2 colonies with eggs - one had only a few eggs and what looked like recovering bite marks, while the other had 2 big patches of eggs and many fresh bite marks. I glued over the eggs on the first one and threw away the other one. In the dip tub there were still dead flatworms floating around, but less than weeks 1 and 2.

Is this normal or did I mess up somehow?

reefmutt · 02/25/2018, 06:45 PM

No, I don’t think it's normal.
The third dip should really be the better safe than sorry dip. You should have really been pretty much aefw free after two dips..
Remind us again what dip you are using?

illumnae · 02/26/2018, 01:38 AM

I'm using potassium chloride at 2tsp per gallon - it definitely kills aefw as I'm seeing dead bodies fly around the tub after every dip. The number of bodies flying around has dropped after every dip - after the first dip it was crazy alot, second dip about 1/3 the amount, third dip I had to look hard to find a couple.

Someone on the other forum did tell me though that eggs can take 3-4 weeks to hatch - given that first dip is on day 1, the 3rd dip is only day 15, so it's possible that what I saw were leftover eggs from before the first dip that hadn't hatched yet. Baby aefw are supposed to take 21 days to mature enough to lay eggs - so i shouldn't be seeing new eggs. That's supposed to be why 5 weekly dips are required - up to 4 weeks for the eggs to all hatch, then the 5th week to kill the aefw that hatched in the 4th week. Week 6 is to be extra sure to kill any that Week 5 may have missed. So long as they are killed before hitting the 21 day maturity date, the treatment should eradicate them all - so if you get to Week 7 without eradicating them, the cycle starts over because the Week 4 hatchlings would have matured enough to start laying eggs.

Does this sound accurate?

reefmutt · 02/26/2018, 10:59 AM

Definitely sounds accurate.. seems like you missed some eggs

Good luck! It appears to be going in the right direction.

illumnae · 03/06/2018, 11:06 AM

A short video documenting the tearing down of my tank to start the dipping. Filmed in HD.

DiscusHeckel · 03/06/2018, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illumnae

A short video documenting the tearing down of my tank to start the dipping. Filmed in HD.

I have felt mentally exhausted after watching your video.

I will be even more careful from now on in order to keep my corals AEFW free. Prevention is better than cure as they say.

I hope your effort pays off eventually.

watchguy123 · 03/06/2018, 12:52 PM

WOW!!! undoubtedly worth the effort but the heartbreak to pull all those acros out

Ostentum · 03/06/2018, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscusHeckel

I have read that some people use flatworm stop even though there is no flatworm presence in their tank. I have never understood the motive.

Thats because the flatworm stop by KZ doesnt kill flatworms. It does 2 things it causes the corals to increase its ability to heal itself, i have noticed that if the base gets irritated by fish or snails etc that the coral heals itself much much quicker, even after fragging it seems that the corals put on a base and heal much quicker. The other thing it does is change the mucus of the corals. It supposedly makes it less tasty to the bugs. They honestly should rename it to nudi stop. I had some monti nudis show up in my tank and have all but disappeared without me having to dip or introduce a predator to the tank. So either it works or peppermint shrimp eat Monti nudis. Even though I dont have flatworms to me the other noticeable effects make this product worth its weight.

illumnae · 03/07/2018, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscusHeckel

I have felt mentally exhausted after watching your video.

I will be even more careful from now on in order to keep my corals AEFW free. Prevention is better than cure as they say.

I hope your effort pays off eventually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchguy123

WOW!!! undoubtedly worth the effort but the heartbreak to pull all those acros out

Thank you. It was indeed quite an exhausting task. That 30 second sped up section was almost 2 hours of climbing up and down the ladder between the tank and the dipping tub. I was literally shaking after it was all done. Now weekly it takes an hour to transfer all the corals to the dipping tub, dip them and place them back on the egg-crate rack.

That said, it's also not an easy task preventing them from getting into your tank when your local reefing scene favours colonies over frags. It is almost impossible to be 100% thorough with wild colonies. Everything that went into my tank was dipped and inspected before going in, and still I ended up with the pest. The only 100% surefire way is to set up a QT and do the weekly dip for 6 weeks on every piece that you obtain - which also means you can't buy a gem that appears in the importer's place if you're midway through a dip session.

reefmutt · 03/07/2018, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illumnae

A short video documenting the tearing down of my tank to start the dipping. Filmed in HD.

Ooooouuuuuuch!!!!
Brutal!!!
I hope this works for you. I just can not imagine doing this!!
Bulent is right, it’s exhausting just watching you..
I did notice that somewhere in that video, you added the new diffusers to your lights. That’s cool.
Look really closely for any bare patches in the body of the colonies where eggs could have been laid without you noticing.

illumnae · 03/08/2018, 01:29 AM

Thanks! The diffusers were actually added prior to this video being filmed. I really like them - they give a much more even spread of light, allowing me to lower the lights from 16" to 12" above the tank and lowering the intensity of the Radions, resulting in some electricity savings.

In the latest dip I've actually inspected all the corals for any unhatched eggs and glued over everything I could find. If i find any more new ones it likely means that the dip isn't working... so fingers crossed!

shermanang · 03/08/2018, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illumnae

I'm using potassium chloride at 2tsp per gallon - it definitely kills aefw as I'm seeing dead bodies fly around the tub after every dip. The number of bodies flying around has dropped after every dip - after the first dip it was crazy alot, second dip about 1/3 the amount, third dip I had to look hard to find a couple.

Someone on the other forum did tell me though that eggs can take 3-4 weeks to hatch - given that first dip is on day 1, the 3rd dip is only day 15, so it's possible that what I saw were leftover eggs from before the first dip that hadn't hatched yet. Baby aefw are supposed to take 21 days to mature enough to lay eggs - so i shouldn't be seeing new eggs. That's supposed to be why 5 weekly dips are required - up to 4 weeks for the eggs to all hatch, then the 5th week to kill the aefw that hatched in the 4th week. Week 6 is to be extra sure to kill any that Week 5 may have missed. So long as they are killed before hitting the 21 day maturity date, the treatment should eradicate them all - so if you get to Week 7 without eradicating them, the cycle starts over because the Week 4 hatchlings would have matured enough to start laying eggs.

Does this sound accurate?

Where you get Potassium Chloride in Singapore?
Very interesting sharing

Thank You

illumnae · 03/08/2018, 07:34 AM

You can get smaller quantities up to 1kg from Eco City Hydroponics. 50kg sacks also available at Tues industrial area but I'm not sure exactly where. The sacks are much more economical if you can find a group to share. Lifetime supply of potassium to dose your tank and use as a dip.

shermanang · 03/11/2018, 09:37 PM

Thank You illumnae for sharing

illumnae · 03/14/2018, 05:24 AM

So dip #5 is done and the good news is no new eggs found and no visible aefw in the dipping tub. Going to continue with 2 more dips to complete 6 weeks and I really hope this nightmare is over. I've also completed the new scape - will try to do a video of it before the final dip.

DiscusHeckel · 03/14/2018, 05:39 AM

Keep up the good work.

reefmutt · 03/14/2018, 08:02 AM

Looking forward to the new scape!

illumnae · 03/14/2018, 09:25 AM

quick question... do you think I need to pre-cycle my new scape?

My previous scape was made from a local brand of man made rock and of course they cycled with the tank through its infancy. I removed and gave that scape to a friend and my new scape is made from dry Real Reef Rock (the branded man made rock). In my sump I have about 15 litres of siporax and a refugium with chaeto and some Walt Smith rock for pods to hide in. Obviously the siporax is fully cycled as the tank is maintaining the fish and sps with stable parameters. No3 is 0.2 and po4 is 0.02 - identical as before tearing down the tank.

So do you think it's safe for the new scape to go straight in, or should I still cycle it with bottled bacteria in a tub for a couple of weeks first?

reefmutt · 03/15/2018, 08:17 AM

Assuming it’s not going to leach anything like po4 or other trace metals or something.. and the ph of the stuff is close to natural sea water, I don’t see why you can’t just put it in..
.. Having said that, I don’t know a lot about the man made rock products but I assume they are often made with a cement base.. I think cement has a very high ph..
you may want to verify with the manufacturer if it will affect ph. Or leach anything.. I guess they will probably say no..
I guess the ‘better safe than sorry and it just can’t hurt’ answer is why not soak it for a while..
Maybe in ro water first and then in salt water...

illumnae · 03/15/2018, 06:17 PM

Thanks Matt! It's supposed to be made if aragonite and soaked for months before sale, but as you've said there's no harm in playing safe. Now to find a big enough tub....

illumnae · 03/19/2018, 10:03 AM

And here's the new scape! Hope it looks good enough... I've set up 2 tubs and will start cycling the rocks in salt water with Fritz and Prodibio bacteria for 2 weeks. I may also dose some TM Reef Mud Vital into the tubs to hopefully seed some additional micro fauna into the rocks.

02/20/2018, 06:35 PM	#79
E.intheC Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 5,373	Sorry to hear about the AEFW's.. Good luck! Your tank previously looked amazing __________________ -Eric

02/25/2018, 06:45 PM	#81
reefmutt Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mtl. Canada Posts: 7,824	No, I don’t think it's normal. The third dip should really be the better safe than sorry dip. You should have really been pretty much aefw free after two dips.. Remind us again what dip you are using? __________________ Matt. Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer

02/26/2018, 10:59 AM	#83
reefmutt Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mtl. Canada Posts: 7,824	Definitely sounds accurate.. seems like you missed some eggs Good luck! It appears to be going in the right direction. __________________ Matt. Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer

03/06/2018, 12:52 PM	#86
watchguy123 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,074	WOW!!! undoubtedly worth the effort but the heartbreak to pull all those acros out __________________ Reef Hobbyist Magazine, Q4 2017, "Achieving Colorful SPS" ReefHacks.com, "The Ultimate Guide: How To Successfully Grow Beautiful SPS Corals" Reef Spotlight February 2013, other Forum Current Tank Info: 180 Bowfront, 30 gallon sump, 20 gallon refugium, reeflo dart/snapper hybrid pump, 2 x 6105 Tunze ,Tunze ATO, dual chamber CA reactor, 3 x250 metal halides with 2x t5 actinic supplement, Reefbrite Blue XHO's dawn/dusk

03/14/2018, 05:39 AM	#95
DiscusHeckel Acropora Gardener Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 2,780	Keep up the good work. __________________ Featured Tank OCT 2016 \| "Reef Hobbyist Magazine" TOTM OCT 2016 \| "Ultimate Reef", UK FB \| "/troutsReefTank/" 65G SPS Reef- ATI 8 X 39W PM; TM [Bacto-Balance A-; Reef Actif; Nitribiotic; Iodine]

02/18/2018, 10:43 AM	#78
illumnae Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Singapore Posts: 322	Vertex Rox 0.8 isn't easily available to me unfortunately. I did my 2nd weekly dip yesterday. Took 1.5 hours including catching all the fish out to qt. I start the clock for fallow tomorrow and will do 12 weeks. There were still aefw flying off the sps this week, but noticeably less and smaller. I also saw what looked like unhatched eggs but will see again next week to be sure. Luckily for me, despite using the harsher KCl as my dip of choice, the sps are not reacting badly to it. I've not had to adjust my calcium reactor at all and kh is still maintaining. I had expected consumption to drop during this period. PE is actually better than before the first dip. I really hope this whole exercise is worth it.

02/26/2018, 01:38 AM	#82
illumnae Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Singapore Posts: 322	I'm using potassium chloride at 2tsp per gallon - it definitely kills aefw as I'm seeing dead bodies fly around the tub after every dip. The number of bodies flying around has dropped after every dip - after the first dip it was crazy alot, second dip about 1/3 the amount, third dip I had to look hard to find a couple. Someone on the other forum did tell me though that eggs can take 3-4 weeks to hatch - given that first dip is on day 1, the 3rd dip is only day 15, so it's possible that what I saw were leftover eggs from before the first dip that hadn't hatched yet. Baby aefw are supposed to take 21 days to mature enough to lay eggs - so i shouldn't be seeing new eggs. That's supposed to be why 5 weekly dips are required - up to 4 weeks for the eggs to all hatch, then the 5th week to kill the aefw that hatched in the 4th week. Week 6 is to be extra sure to kill any that Week 5 may have missed. So long as they are killed before hitting the 21 day maturity date, the treatment should eradicate them all - so if you get to Week 7 without eradicating them, the cycle starts over because the Week 4 hatchlings would have matured enough to start laying eggs. Does this sound accurate?

03/06/2018, 11:06 AM	#84
illumnae Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Singapore Posts: 322	A short video documenting the tearing down of my tank to start the dipping. Filmed in HD.

03/08/2018, 01:29 AM	#90
illumnae Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Singapore Posts: 322	Thanks! The diffusers were actually added prior to this video being filmed. I really like them - they give a much more even spread of light, allowing me to lower the lights from 16" to 12" above the tank and lowering the intensity of the Radions, resulting in some electricity savings. In the latest dip I've actually inspected all the corals for any unhatched eggs and glued over everything I could find. If i find any more new ones it likely means that the dip isn't working... so fingers crossed!

03/08/2018, 07:34 AM	#92
illumnae Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Singapore Posts: 322	You can get smaller quantities up to 1kg from Eco City Hydroponics. 50kg sacks also available at Tues industrial area but I'm not sure exactly where. The sacks are much more economical if you can find a group to share. Lifetime supply of potassium to dose your tank and use as a dip.

03/11/2018, 09:37 PM	#93
shermanang Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 27	Thank You illumnae for sharing

03/14/2018, 05:24 AM	#94
illumnae Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Singapore Posts: 322	So dip #5 is done and the good news is no new eggs found and no visible aefw in the dipping tub. Going to continue with 2 more dips to complete 6 weeks and I really hope this nightmare is over. I've also completed the new scape - will try to do a video of it before the final dip.

03/14/2018, 08:02 AM	#96
reefmutt Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mtl. Canada Posts: 7,824	Looking forward to the new scape! __________________ Matt. Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer

03/14/2018, 09:25 AM	#97
illumnae Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Singapore Posts: 322	quick question... do you think I need to pre-cycle my new scape? My previous scape was made from a local brand of man made rock and of course they cycled with the tank through its infancy. I removed and gave that scape to a friend and my new scape is made from dry Real Reef Rock (the branded man made rock). In my sump I have about 15 litres of siporax and a refugium with chaeto and some Walt Smith rock for pods to hide in. Obviously the siporax is fully cycled as the tank is maintaining the fish and sps with stable parameters. No3 is 0.2 and po4 is 0.02 - identical as before tearing down the tank. So do you think it's safe for the new scape to go straight in, or should I still cycle it with bottled bacteria in a tub for a couple of weeks first?

03/15/2018, 08:17 AM	#98
reefmutt Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mtl. Canada Posts: 7,824	Assuming it’s not going to leach anything like po4 or other trace metals or something.. and the ph of the stuff is close to natural sea water, I don’t see why you can’t just put it in.. .. Having said that, I don’t know a lot about the man made rock products but I assume they are often made with a cement base.. I think cement has a very high ph.. you may want to verify with the manufacturer if it will affect ph. Or leach anything.. I guess they will probably say no.. I guess the ‘better safe than sorry and it just can’t hurt’ answer is why not soak it for a while.. Maybe in ro water first and then in salt water... __________________ Matt. Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer

03/15/2018, 06:17 PM	#99
illumnae Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Singapore Posts: 322	Thanks Matt! It's supposed to be made if aragonite and soaked for months before sale, but as you've said there's no harm in playing safe. Now to find a big enough tub....

03/19/2018, 10:03 AM	#100
illumnae Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Singapore Posts: 322	And here's the new scape! Hope it looks good enough... I've set up 2 tubs and will start cycling the rocks in salt water with Fritz and Prodibio bacteria for 2 weeks. I may also dose some TM Reef Mud Vital into the tubs to hopefully seed some additional micro fauna into the rocks.