DIY 40BR sump, questions before finalizing design....

rovster · 06/01/2012, 06:36 PM

I am working on my 40 BR sump/fuge this weekend. Actually I already started. The DT will be 112 gallons, the sump is obviously a 40BR. Skimmer is a SRO XP2000, return will be an Eheim 1262. ATO is a Tunze ATO.

The SRO has a relatively large footprint, so I need a bit over 11" for it.

Here is the layout mocked up. The skimmer section is 11.xx inches x 9" tall, giving me 8 gallons. I know I will have to raise the skimmer to 6.XX". The return section is 8", run at 8" tall, will give me 5 gal. The Fuge is 13.XX" x 12" tall and is approximately 12 gal.

My concern is that the return chamber may be too small. Although I will (do) have a Tunze Osmolater ATO, I want to make sure this layout is OK. I plan to T the return to run the fuge. I will be running LR and Chaeto in the fuge. Any advice/suggestions/comments welcome. I already started the skimmer section. I'm waiting for some feedback on the Return/Fuge dimensions before setting everything in stone (silicone). Thanks!

chrisd1009 · 06/01/2012, 08:01 PM

I believe that tall baffle for the fuge may create some micro bubble issues for you unless I'm looking at the plywood and not seeing the top of your baffles. I was under the assumption that your skimmer runs best in 5.75 inches of water, so I think my eyes locked on you plywood spacers as your baffle height.

rovster · 06/01/2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisd1009

I believe that tall baffle for the fuge may create some micro bubble issues for you unless I'm looking at the plywood and not seeing the top of your baffles. I was under the assumption that your skimmer runs best in 5.75 inches of water, so I think my eyes locked on you plywood spacers as your baffle height.

Baffle height for the skimmer is 9". The bubble trap is an over-under-over, so that middle baffle will be raised 1". The baffles are not in the right orientation in the picture, it was only to demonstrate left to right spacing. I made the middle baffle 1" taller. I don't know why, just did. Thanks....

TimeConsumer · 06/01/2012, 08:16 PM

I think your return section is fine. My return on my 40b sump is 6"L x 18"W x 8"H, making it smaller than yours. I have the same basic layout with a Tee'd off pump running the refugium.

uncleof6 · 06/01/2012, 08:25 PM

I would steal 2 gallons from the fuge, and use it for the return section. The 2 more gallons for the return section will go a long way in protecting your pump, in the event your ato fails (which they do,) whereas that 2 gallons benefits the fuge very little. 10 gallon fuge would be fine for this system.

rovster · 06/01/2012, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncleof6

I would steal 2 gallons from the fuge, and use it for the return section. The 2 more gallons for the return section will go a long way in protecting your pump, in the event your ato fails (which they do,) whereas that 2 gallons benefits the fuge very little. 10 gallon fuge would be fine for this system.

This was my concern. Initially, I underestimated how big my skimmer's footprint was. I wasn't sure whether to skimp on the return or on the fuge. I know the bigger the fuge, the better, but at the same time, I need to have an out if my ATO takes a dump. I figured as it is now, I have maybe 2 days at best between topoffs if my ATO fails. I have some things to consider. Maybe I'll split the difference, LOL! Thanks!

rovster · 06/01/2012, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeConsumer

I think your return section is fine. My return on my 40b sump is 6"L x 18"W x 8"H, making it smaller than yours. I have the same basic layout with a Tee'd off pump running the refugium.

How long has your system been up and running? What is your ATO? Any issues? If your ATO were to fail, how many days would you say you have between topoffs. I will be running an open top, so evaporation is a concern. Thanks for the reassurance

uncleof6 · 06/01/2012, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rovster

This was my concern. Initially, I underestimated how big my skimmer's footprint was. I wasn't sure whether to skimp on the return or on the fuge. I know the bigger the fuge, the better, but at the same time, I need to have an out if my ATO takes a dump. I figured as it is now, I have maybe 2 days at best between topoffs if my ATO fails. I have some things to consider. Maybe I'll split the difference, LOL! Thanks!

Just FYI, that is not really true. A five gallon bucket of sand will do more than a 12 gallon fuge can dream about doing, with fewer headaches. Just sayin.

Your return pump is the more critical factor in the sump, along with the skimmer footprint.

chrisd1009 · 06/01/2012, 09:46 PM

Thank you for clarifying the baffle thing. I saw the height of your fuge baffle and for whatever reason, I thought the plywood spacers were the height of your other baffles. That what I get for looking at the pictures and not reading.
2 questions, if power goes out, is there enough room in your sump to hold all the water that drains from the MD? (I have far more faith in an osmillator than I do in a check valve)
I've been looking @ the skimmer you have as an option for me. I don't have any experience with the brand. I was wondering that since the company advises 5.75" water depth for optimal use, do you think you will see any adverse effects with the skimmer placed in 9 inches of water? I'm sure their are plenty of owners out there who don't keep their skimmer at 5.75", so I'd like to anyone to chime in on that question about the depth.

uncleof6 · 06/01/2012, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisd1009

Thank you for clarifying the baffle thing. I saw the height of your fuge baffle and for whatever reason, I thought the plywood spacers were the height of your other baffles. That what I get for looking at the pictures and not reading.
2 questions, if power goes out, is there enough room in your sump to hold all the water that drains from the MD? (I have far more faith in an osmillator than I do in a check valve)
I've been looking @ the skimmer you have as an option for me. I don't have any experience with the brand. I was wondering that since the company advises 5.75" water depth for optimal use, do you think you will see any adverse effects with the skimmer placed in 9 inches of water? I'm sure their are plenty of owners out there who don't keep their skimmer at 5.75", so I'd like to anyone to chime in on that question about the depth.

Do not know how about the optimal height for this particular skimmer, however, if he drops the baffle height down, he is going to run into problems with evap in his return section. If 5.75" is optimal for this skimmer, he will have to put a stand under it and raise it up.

TimeConsumer · 06/01/2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rovster

How long has your system been up and running? What is your ATO? Any issues? If your ATO were to fail, how many days would you say you have between topoffs. I will be running an open top, so evaporation is a concern. Thanks for the reassurance

I've been running my 75g for a year now. I use a Avast Marine topoff system. I lose about a gallon a day in evaporation. If my ATO fails, I can run for no more than two days without sucking air in my return. I originally used this design without an ATO for a good 9 months. I just topped off daily. It was designed this way intentionally because I use a HOB overflow and I wanted a flood-proof design. Now that I have an ATO I've scrapped the flood proofing, but I have other float switches in place to help with that.

rovster · 06/02/2012, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncleof6

Do not know how about the optimal height for this particular skimmer, however, if he drops the baffle height down, he is going to run into problems with evap in his return section. If 5.75" is optimal for this skimmer, he will have to put a stand under it and raise it up.

Optimal height is 5.5-6.5", so I will be building a skimmer stand with egg crate and PVC legs. You can hold it all together with zip ties.

rovster · 06/02/2012, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisd1009

if power goes out, is there enough room in your sump to hold all the water that drains from the MD? (I have far more faith in an osmillator than I do in a check valve)

I should have about 13-14 gal of drain out capacity, which should hold assuming I set up the return high enough. I plan on keeping it at the surface or just under. I have 2MP40s for in tank flow.

rovster · 06/02/2012, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeConsumer

I've been running my 75g for a year now. I use a Avast Marine topoff system. I lose about a gallon a day in evaporation. If my ATO fails, I can run for no more than two days without sucking air in my return. I originally used this design without an ATO for a good 9 months. I just topped off daily. It was designed this way intentionally because I use a HOB overflow and I wanted a flood-proof design. Now that I have an ATO I've scrapped the flood proofing, but I have other float switches in place to help with that.

Thanks. I was figuring 1.5 gal for my system. I occasionally go away for the weekends so I would really like a min of 2-3 days worth. You must love your ATO now

. Thanks.

Gandolfe · 06/02/2012, 06:28 AM

if you have the room for it why not run a seperate 10 or 20 gallon tank as a fuge and make the whole 40 G a return well

rovster · 06/02/2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandolfe

if you have the room for it why not run a seperate 10 or 20 gallon tank as a fuge and make the whole 40 G a return well

I actually thought about that, but that may interfere with future plans. I do have the room now, but may not when I'm "done". Thanks for the suggestion.

chrisd1009 · 06/02/2012, 04:39 PM

Cool, again, thanks for clarifying the plans on the skimmer stand. Going off the picture, I wasn't sure if room in your stand was going to be an issue for cup removal if you had to elevate it. Sorry for hijacking your thread with my own questions and thanks for answering them. My main concern with a sump is how much water flows through it to avoid a raceway of microbubbles, good skimmer placement and it's ability to hold water if the power goes out. Thanks again for answering my ?'s and good luck with it.

Gandolfe · 06/03/2012, 06:17 AM

I used to have a 20 long,split into 3 sections, first was for my overflow and skimmer with a tank divider from petsmart for my skimmer, the divider kept the sand and macro out of skimmer section but let water flow through it,Then a mddle section with sand, some rocks and macro for a fuge,sectioned off by a 9" high plexiglass piece with holes drilled in the top to let water flow to my return pumps( i had 2 because a 90 G and a 45 G shared the sump. There was just enough flow to let my fuge fill up with "tiny critters' and the last section was the only place to get and then filled with top off there.Worked for almoist 4 years like that....just had to watch when the power went out to make sure i didn't have too much water in the sump or it overflow. Now I have a 40 gallon sump with baffles seperating the first section where I have my skimmer and pumps for canister filter and ATS. the last section has a few rocks and my return pump and my ATS drains into it. I have a seperate 10 G fuge i made from an old wet/dry filter that has two sections, I have 3" of sand, macro, a coulpe of rocks, about 10 Mangroves, and lots of "tiny critters" again. I drilled the bulkhead so it stays about an 1' from overflowing and use a 240 GPH sub pump to feed it. It never even comes close to overflowing unless I cllose the shut off valve and forget it closed with the pump running!

Gandolfe · 06/03/2012, 06:24 AM

The drain runs into the sump through a 1" pipe so I know the pump will never overflow the fuge. i split the fill hose with a tee at the end that flows into both sections instead of just the hose like shown, it now has a 1/2 tee at the end

kv2wr1 · 06/03/2012, 11:43 AM

Have you thought about removable baffles?

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume...bafflesart.htm

jasimek · 06/04/2012, 03:41 PM

Considering removable baffles...just bought marine Epdm weatherstripping. I also bought an acrylic panel from home depot that lists the thickness as .093 inches. If I'm figuring this out correctly I would cut the panel So that there is 1/8 inch on either side of the panel to ensure a good seal with the weatherstripping. It is a 40 gallon breeder and I haven't measured the width yet but I'm thinking this should work...thoughts?

06/01/2012, 06:36 PM	#1
rovster Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Miramar, FL Posts: 7,518	DIY 40BR sump, questions before finalizing design.... I am working on my 40 BR sump/fuge this weekend. Actually I already started. The DT will be 112 gallons, the sump is obviously a 40BR. Skimmer is a SRO XP2000, return will be an Eheim 1262. ATO is a Tunze ATO. The SRO has a relatively large footprint, so I need a bit over 11" for it. Here is the layout mocked up. The skimmer section is 11.xx inches x 9" tall, giving me 8 gallons. I know I will have to raise the skimmer to 6.XX". The return section is 8", run at 8" tall, will give me 5 gal. The Fuge is 13.XX" x 12" tall and is approximately 12 gal. My concern is that the return chamber may be too small. Although I will (do) have a Tunze Osmolater ATO, I want to make sure this layout is OK. I plan to T the return to run the fuge. I will be running LR and Chaeto in the fuge. Any advice/suggestions/comments welcome. I already started the skimmer section. I'm waiting for some feedback on the Return/Fuge dimensions before setting everything in stone (silicone). Thanks!

06/01/2012, 08:01 PM	#2
chrisd1009 Lurker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 226	I believe that tall baffle for the fuge may create some micro bubble issues for you unless I'm looking at the plywood and not seeing the top of your baffles. I was under the assumption that your skimmer runs best in 5.75 inches of water, so I think my eyes locked on you plywood spacers as your baffle height. __________________ But my water parameters are perfect? The best customer service is the one you don't need. Current Tank Info: planning phase

06/01/2012, 08:16 PM	#4
TimeConsumer Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 1,919	I think your return section is fine. My return on my 40b sump is 6"L x 18"W x 8"H, making it smaller than yours. I have the same basic layout with a Tee'd off pump running the refugium. __________________ Steve - Retired from reefing, for now.

06/01/2012, 08:25 PM	#5
uncleof6 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: AWOL Posts: 12,013	I would steal 2 gallons from the fuge, and use it for the return section. The 2 more gallons for the return section will go a long way in protecting your pump, in the event your ato fails (which they do,) whereas that 2 gallons benefits the fuge very little. 10 gallon fuge would be fine for this system. __________________ "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef

06/01/2012, 09:46 PM	#9
chrisd1009 Lurker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 226	Thank you for clarifying the baffle thing. I saw the height of your fuge baffle and for whatever reason, I thought the plywood spacers were the height of your other baffles. That what I get for looking at the pictures and not reading. 2 questions, if power goes out, is there enough room in your sump to hold all the water that drains from the MD? (I have far more faith in an osmillator than I do in a check valve) I've been looking @ the skimmer you have as an option for me. I don't have any experience with the brand. I was wondering that since the company advises 5.75" water depth for optimal use, do you think you will see any adverse effects with the skimmer placed in 9 inches of water? I'm sure their are plenty of owners out there who don't keep their skimmer at 5.75", so I'd like to anyone to chime in on that question about the depth. __________________ But my water parameters are perfect? The best customer service is the one you don't need. Current Tank Info: planning phase

06/02/2012, 06:28 AM	#15
Gandolfe Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Port Richey,Florida Posts: 849	if you have the room for it why not run a seperate 10 or 20 gallon tank as a fuge and make the whole 40 G a return well

06/02/2012, 04:39 PM	#17
chrisd1009 Lurker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 226	Cool, again, thanks for clarifying the plans on the skimmer stand. Going off the picture, I wasn't sure if room in your stand was going to be an issue for cup removal if you had to elevate it. Sorry for hijacking your thread with my own questions and thanks for answering them. My main concern with a sump is how much water flows through it to avoid a raceway of microbubbles, good skimmer placement and it's ability to hold water if the power goes out. Thanks again for answering my ?'s and good luck with it. __________________ But my water parameters are perfect? The best customer service is the one you don't need. Current Tank Info: planning phase

06/03/2012, 06:17 AM	#18
Gandolfe Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Port Richey,Florida Posts: 849	I used to have a 20 long,split into 3 sections, first was for my overflow and skimmer with a tank divider from petsmart for my skimmer, the divider kept the sand and macro out of skimmer section but let water flow through it,Then a mddle section with sand, some rocks and macro for a fuge,sectioned off by a 9" high plexiglass piece with holes drilled in the top to let water flow to my return pumps( i had 2 because a 90 G and a 45 G shared the sump. There was just enough flow to let my fuge fill up with "tiny critters' and the last section was the only place to get and then filled with top off there.Worked for almoist 4 years like that....just had to watch when the power went out to make sure i didn't have too much water in the sump or it overflow. Now I have a 40 gallon sump with baffles seperating the first section where I have my skimmer and pumps for canister filter and ATS. the last section has a few rocks and my return pump and my ATS drains into it. I have a seperate 10 G fuge i made from an old wet/dry filter that has two sections, I have 3" of sand, macro, a coulpe of rocks, about 10 Mangroves, and lots of "tiny critters" again. I drilled the bulkhead so it stays about an 1' from overflowing and use a 240 GPH sub pump to feed it. It never even comes close to overflowing unless I cllose the shut off valve and forget it closed with the pump running!

06/03/2012, 11:43 AM	#20
kv2wr1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 498	Have you thought about removable baffles? http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume...bafflesart.htm

06/04/2012, 03:41 PM	#21
jasimek Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Plainfield, Illinois Posts: 692	Considering removable baffles...just bought marine Epdm weatherstripping. I also bought an acrylic panel from home depot that lists the thickness as .093 inches. If I'm figuring this out correctly I would cut the panel So that there is 1/8 inch on either side of the panel to ensure a good seal with the weatherstripping. It is a 40 gallon breeder and I haven't measured the width yet but I'm thinking this should work...thoughts?