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Unread 11/02/2016, 09:05 AM   #3426
JPMagyar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by africangrey View Post
That is very disappointing with 1 month over the warranty, and replacing the ballast is a huge task.
Quote:
Originally Posted by westreef View Post
Sorry to hear that. Joe, mine was 13 months old and had the same problem like yours. I cranked up the led to 100% to compensate temporary par lost.
I talked to ATI via email. It was a slow process. You might get a ballast with a slight discount. Good luck.
Yeah, contacted them via the online support form yesterday and got a response in the evening. Followed the trouble shooting directions and it does appear to be a bad ballast most likely.

We'll see how they handle it.

Funny, I did the same thing, turned the LEDs up, for the time being. We'll see . . .

I was considering posting the phone number as it irks me that they do not offer a phone contact on their website, but I will refrain from doing so, but should anyone require the number in the future please do not hesitate to PM or email me at s u n v o x at a o l.


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Joe Peck
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Unread 11/02/2016, 11:50 PM   #3427
illumnae
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Does anyone know what the spread of the LEDs is like? 7" above the water doesn't look like it will light up more than a thin strip down the middle?


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Unread 11/03/2016, 04:51 AM   #3428
JPMagyar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illumnae View Post
Does anyone know what the spread of the LEDs is like? 7" above the water doesn't look like it will light up more than a thin strip down the middle?
I have no idea what the optics are on the LEDs but even at 10 inches above the waterline the LEDs cover 48 x 30 x 30 with no trouble. Mind you the light is minimal with PAR readings around 20-50 umol/m2/s/s on my sand bed which is 24 inches below the waterline, but none the less they do provide plenty of coverage.


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Unread 11/03/2016, 03:32 PM   #3429
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JP I think you said in your build thread that the repair for your fixture will probably run like $2k ?!? How's it hat expensive when the ballasts are only like $65? Is that to ship it back and the labor to have them do it too?

Is it really that hard to do?

I'm starting to get worried now since I bought mine used and have no idea how old it is. I'm thinking of jumping ship and getting and Geismann and some reefbrites to make my own hybrid now. $2k is way more than I even paid for the light.


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Unread 11/04/2016, 04:27 AM   #3430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPMagyar View Post
I have no idea what the optics are on the LEDs but even at 10 inches above the waterline the LEDs cover 48 x 30 x 30 with no trouble. Mind you the light is minimal with PAR readings around 20-50 umol/m2/s/s on my sand bed which is 24 inches below the waterline, but none the less they do provide plenty of coverage.

Thanks Joe! I think I've finally resolved my PAR concerns by lowering my lights to 7" above the water. Most corals are now at 200 to 450 PAR and starting to colour up. LEDs are now at 25% and I'll increase by 5% per month till 35 to 45% maximum (B 255 RB 255 W 120 R 20)


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Unread 11/04/2016, 05:25 AM   #3431
JPMagyar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClownsRCoo View Post
JP I think you said in your build thread that the repair for your fixture will probably run like $2k ?!? How's it hat expensive when the ballasts are only like $65? Is that to ship it back and the labor to have them do it too?

Is it really that hard to do?

I'm starting to get worried now since I bought mine used and have no idea how old it is. I'm thinking of jumping ship and getting and Geismann and some reefbrites to make my own hybrid now. $2k is way more than I even paid for the light.


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No . . .no I'm sure I misspoke somehow, but the repairs are a $100 to $200 depending on if you do them yourself. The $2k I mentioned was about how much each fixture cost me. (I think retail is $1800 and change now, right?) plus I have 2 fixtures and a smaller Sunpower meaning I spent over $4k on ATI stuff AND my fixtures are exactly 13 months old which is only one month out of warranty . . .


BUT


Good news from ATI yesterday. They said since my fixtures were only 1 month out of warranty, they would offer me a free ballast. I don't mind doing the repairs myself as I am an E.E. by training and am knowledgeable and handy when it comes to wiring, soldering, etc. Also, I am opting to but a second ballast just to have a spare on hand under the assumption that there is a high probability this will happen again. Finally I asked if there is anything to be done to mitigate the risk of ballast failure in a Powermodule. I'm considering removing the acrylic cover to help with the cooling. I think cleaning the reflectors twice a year is probably easier and cheaper than replacing a ballast every year or so.



Quote:
Originally Posted by illumnae View Post
Thanks Joe! I think I've finally resolved my PAR concerns by lowering my lights to 7" above the water. Most corals are now at 200 to 450 PAR and starting to colour up. LEDs are now at 25% and I'll increase by 5% per month till 35 to 45% maximum (B 255 RB 255 W 120 R 20)
Awesome! Looking forward to some progression shots!!


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Unread 11/04/2016, 07:12 AM   #3432
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Joe, if you don't mind, is your fixture 6 or 8, T-5 bulbs?


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Unread 11/04/2016, 08:21 AM   #3433
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Hi Joe, you are so lucky you get your ballast for free.
Just to be clear, ATI told you that the heat built up due to the shield might cause the failure of the ballast. Interesting. If that is true, I might think about removing the shield too.


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Unread 11/04/2016, 10:14 AM   #3434
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I thought the PAR might suffer if the bulbs are kept at certain temp. too cool or too hot is no no.


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Unread 11/04/2016, 05:11 PM   #3435
JPMagyar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitodog View Post
Joe, if you don't mind, is your fixture 6 or 8, T-5 bulbs?
My 2 fixtures are both 8 bulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by westreef View Post
Hi Joe, you are so lucky you get your ballast for free.
Just to be clear, ATI told you that the heat built up due to the shield might cause the failure of the ballast. Interesting. If that is true, I might think about removing the shield too.
No, I am considering removing the cover but they have not yet given me an answer to the question "Can something be done to mitigate the risk of ballast failure?".

Quote:
Originally Posted by africangrey View Post
I thought the PAR might suffer if the bulbs are kept at certain temp. too cool or too hot is no no.
. From what I understand cooler is better for T5. I do not think too cool is possible in a Powermodule.


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Last edited by JPMagyar; 11/04/2016 at 05:25 PM.
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Unread 11/04/2016, 05:48 PM   #3436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPMagyar View Post
My 2 fixtures are both 8 bulb


No, I am considering removing the cover but they have not yet given me an answer to the question "Can something be done to mitigate the risk of ballast failure?".

. From what I understand cooler is better for T5. I do not think too cool is possible in a Powermodule.
Overcooling is just as detrimental for performance as over heating. However, I would assume (dangerous thing to do) that the ballasts being better cooled is not a bad thing.


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Unread 11/06/2016, 04:56 AM   #3437
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Small opinion with a tank not like the 'sps gods'. I went from a ATI 8x80 sun power to a hybrid about a year ago. My tank initially worked amazing and then I started to have problems with LED units and fans stopping to work. The unit became so hot, I could literally burn my hand on it.
Personally, I feel that is detrimental to the colour of T5's, based this on what i see with my eyes, not equipment.
emails went back and forth to the UK distributor and I was told I will get part to replace it myself. DIY wise I am terrible and didn't want to risk it. I then started to email ATI directly in Germany. Fast response and the unit were collected. Impressed.
It came back a few weeks later with LED fixed, but the fan not working. No luck since then.
My corals have suffered a great deal and many nems did not like the constantly changing light parameters.
IMO the hybrid was a waste of money and I only keep it as I spend the money on it.
I owned every single ATI light product over the years apart from a 54 Watt power module and this was such a huge disappointment to me, I am unlikely to ever buy another ATI light after this.
I love this hobby so much.. oh well, the addiction should I say, but it's sad that this event has put a huge damper on my views.


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Unread 11/06/2016, 05:56 AM   #3438
JPMagyar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtparty View Post
Overcooling is just as detrimental for performance as over heating. However, I would assume (dangerous thing to do) that the ballasts being better cooled is not a bad thing.
I absolutely agree!

But . . .

I think anyone who has ever turned on a fluorescent light in a freezing cold garage or workshop has witnessed first hand the affect cold has on fluorescent lighting, but I was speaking only about the Powermodule and the removal of the shield.

At the moment I have one unit with the shield removed and one unit with the shield still in place. I can say the remaining lamps on the unit with the shield removed produce ever so slightly higher PAR. Could be from cooler temps but could also be from losses through the shield or a little of both. Most importantly though, the removal of the shield is absolutely not causing the light output to be diminished so I do not think there is a problem with "over cooling" in regards to the Powermodule shield removal.

Just a little clarification Also I want to agree with and emphasize that water and fixtures do not go together so folks should be wary of trying this.

I'm thinking about building a stand off that would hold the shield an inch or two off the light. This might be enough to lower the heat and still provide protection.

Still waiting to hear from ATI though. Perhaps the issue of ballast failure is a production issue and not a heat issue. That certainly would be nice!


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Unread 11/06/2016, 08:53 AM   #3439
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Is it possibly to use a ballast of another brand on these fixtures to see if the longevity is improved?


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Unread 11/07/2016, 04:19 PM   #3440
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I am almost ready to join this club. On my new build i was debating between going all led with the new radion G4 but have decided against that will stick with what I have been successful with in the past, T5. My new build is going to be basically a 40 breeder 36x18x18. The tank will consist of all SPS. My past build I ran a 6 bulb ATI fixture. This Powemodule comes only in 4 and 8. What is the width of the 4 bulb and the 8 bulb fixture. I am thinking the 4 bulb fixture will cover the tank fine and is equivalent to a 6 bulb t5 fixture with the LED clusters going down the middle and that the 8 bulb is probably to wide.

I was going to read through the thread and try to find it but after not finding it through the first 30 pages and I thought it would be easier to just ask. THe info is not on the ATI website.


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Unread 11/07/2016, 05:16 PM   #3441
rtparty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soverjas View Post
I am almost ready to join this club. On my new build i was debating between going all led with the new radion G4 but have decided against that will stick with what I have been successful with in the past, T5. My new build is going to be basically a 40 breeder 36x18x18. The tank will consist of all SPS. My past build I ran a 6 bulb ATI fixture. This Powemodule comes only in 4 and 8. What is the width of the 4 bulb and the 8 bulb fixture. I am thinking the 4 bulb fixture will cover the tank fine and is equivalent to a 6 bulb t5 fixture with the LED clusters going down the middle and that the 8 bulb is probably to wide.

I was going to read through the thread and try to find it but after not finding it through the first 30 pages and I thought it would be easier to just ask. THe info is not on the ATI website.
4 bulb will be plenty.

I'd personally run a 6 bulb Sunpower but it's not my money and tank


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Unread 11/08/2016, 04:33 AM   #3442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soverjas View Post
I am almost ready to join this club. On my new build i was debating between going all led with the new radion G4 but have decided against that will stick with what I have been successful with in the past, T5. My new build is going to be basically a 40 breeder 36x18x18. The tank will consist of all SPS. My past build I ran a 6 bulb ATI fixture. This Powemodule comes only in 4 and 8. What is the width of the 4 bulb and the 8 bulb fixture. I am thinking the 4 bulb fixture will cover the tank fine and is equivalent to a 6 bulb t5 fixture with the LED clusters going down the middle and that the 8 bulb is probably to wide.

I was going to read through the thread and try to find it but after not finding it through the first 30 pages and I thought it would be easier to just ask. THe info is not on the ATI website.
IMOP I would run a 4 bulb sun power with a reefbrite on each side for dusk and dawn or the 6 bulb sunpower
Better bang for your buck


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Unread 11/08/2016, 09:17 PM   #3443
illjoshlli
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SQ-520 Apogee PAR meter and ATI PowerModule hybrid 36" 4T5 with LED Spike

I've been trying to find the right settings for my light for quite awhile now. For some reason people have been VERY shy in sharing their light profiles . So, I decided to bite-the-bullet and get a PAR meter. I got the new Apogee SQ-520. This sensor is supposed to be pretty accurate with LEDs. So much so, it does not contain different settings for the different lighting types. I went with the 520 to save a few bucks since it's USB based without a controller.

When I get some time I'll put together some PAR maps for T5s, LEDs, T5+LEDs. etc. For now, here is a video of my results. the quality isn't the best as I'm using a webCam and screen recording software.

The light is 9" above the water and in this test it has the following settings:
T5 at 100%: 2 x ATI C+, 2 X ATI B+
LEDs: RB 100%, B 100%, White 50%, Red 0%



For reference here is a picture of my tank.



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Unread 11/09/2016, 02:15 AM   #3444
ksc
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I think you need to add 30% to those underwater readings. I have the mq500 and this is the case due to immersion factor.


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Unread 11/09/2016, 07:35 AM   #3445
JPMagyar
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Here's the information directly from Apogee:


Quote:
Underwater PAR Measurements
Quantum sensors (often called PAR sensors) are increasingly used to measure photosynthetic photon flux density (PPFD, units of µmol m-2 s-1) underwater, which is important for biological, chemical, and physical processes in natural waters and in aquariums. When a quantum sensor that was calibrated in air is used to make underwater measurements, the sensor reads low.

This phenomenon is called the immersion effect and happens because the refractive index of water (1.33) is greater than air (1.00). The higher refractive index of water causes more light to be backscattered (or reflected) out of the sensor in water than in air (Smith, 1969; Tyler and Smith, 1970). As more light is reflected, less light is transmitted through the diffuser to the detector, which causes the sensor to read low. Without correcting for this effect, underwater measurements are only relative, which makes it difficult to compare light in different environments.

The Apogee full spectrum quantum sensor (model SQ-500) is more spectrally accurate than the original quantum sensor (model SQ-120), but the unique optics (mainly the shape) cause the immersion effect to be larger for the new sensor. Underwater PAR measurements collected using a full spectrum sensor can be corrected by multiplying by 1.32; measurements collected using an original Apogee sensor should by multiplied by 1.08.



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Joe Peck
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Unread 11/09/2016, 08:53 AM   #3446
illjoshlli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksc View Post
I think you need to add 30% to those underwater readings. I have the mq500 and this is the case due to immersion factor.
Thanks Ksc. I thought it was a bit low. Here is an article I just found that does a good job covering the immersion factor for these. I wish they would update the software to adjust for this so I don't have to calculate each measurement (* 1.32)

Edit: ReefCentral doesn't like links to another form.. for those interested you can google:
underwater-par-measurement-is-strongly-impacted-by-immersion-effect


Apogee's Info on Immersion Effect




Last edited by illjoshlli; 11/09/2016 at 09:00 AM.
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Unread 11/09/2016, 09:38 PM   #3447
illumnae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPMagyar View Post
Here's the information directly from Apogee:
I think this may be the answer to the issue of low PAR readings I was getting previously - I was using the MQ500 to measure PAR.

After lowering my lights to achieve an "acceptable" PAR range, I'm experiencing a shift to the other end of things and while previously brown corals are starting to show obvious colouring up, other corals are starting to show obvious paling and almost bleaching.

I think I need to raise my lights and take this 30% factor into account. The sweet spot may be 9 to 10 inches above the water line instead of the current 7 (previously 12 inches was obviously delivering too low PAR numbers).


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Unread 11/12/2016, 09:46 AM   #3448
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Joe sorry to hear about the ballast failure. Hopefully that gets resolved quickly. My fixture gets pretty toasty even with all the fans running and the LEDs turned down to practically nothing.

I lost a few nice colonies that seemed to respond poorly to a spike in the LED intensity. They got zapped and never recovered, slow death. At least that's what I think happened. Could be a parameter issue but my corals thrived better under my old T5 and ReefBrite setup. My old Aquaactinics fixture never got this hot.

Has anyone remove the reflector from the LED modules? I'm thinking about doing this in order to get better spread and less intensity because in the module configuration the PAR hotspot seems massive.


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Unread 11/12/2016, 12:55 PM   #3449
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ATI Powermodule Hybrid Club

OK guys here it is. I went ahead and removed one of the metal LED reflectors. Remember each of these clusters are 75w which is the same power as the old AI Sol Blues. You could argue that you can almost light the entire tank just with the LEDs. Having said that it's a lot of LED power in a very compact module. What you get is a beam of concentrated light right under the LEDs that is much higher than the rest of the tank.

Check out how the hot spot goes away after removing the reflector. Crazy. There is a piece of cardboard over the top of my tank so I can demonstrate the difference (and not lose the hex screws). Posted from my phone...sorry for the gigantic photos...







Last edited by Logzor; 11/12/2016 at 01:14 PM.
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Unread 11/15/2016, 11:00 AM   #3450
hbrochs
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Powermodule

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClownsRCoo View Post
Is it possibly to use a ballast of another brand on these fixtures to see if the longevity is improved?


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The fit of the ballast into the fixture is super tight, so you would really need to check the exact dimensions before considering using another ballast.

I just got my repaired Powermodule back from ATI. They replaced two ballasts.

The thing is that while my Hybrid fixture was being repaired I bought a 6 bulb t5 Sunpower (no leds) and the tank is doing really well with it. Maybe better than with the Hybrid. I do miss the dawn and dusk blue shimmer of the led.
So my debate is, do I buy two Reef Brite led strips and mount them on my Sunpower OR go back to the Powermodule.

The Powermodule will be a cleaner look than the modded Sunpower.
Financially, I think its a wash when I sell the light I'm not using.

I feel like my rockwork is highest down the center of the tank, and this is where the Powermodule LEDs are. My sense is that the Sunpower & Reef Brite ( or similar) combo will be better for coral growth and coloration, where the LEDs will be front and back of the fixture and a little further from the acros.

I'd really appreciate any opinions people have. Also, I don't know how people control the reef brites? Are they just on a timer, or is there some controller they are compatible with?

Howard


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