Can't Grow "CERTAIN" Zoa's (In Mature Healthy Tank). Photo (Is this ChemicalWarfare?)

[Rx79394]

Wally -

I am glad you started to get this going the right way. It was interesting to see the progress on this thread (I just viewed it the first time today), you put in a lot of effort on all of the pictures and diagrams... so it is nice to see the work paying off.

I'm curious on how much exactly your lighting has changed.

[Wally.B]

So if you read my thread CONCLUSION/THEORY, you understand that I don't think ONLY Cause was lighting, however it is was part of the factor. (The 1-2 Punch)

I am still trying to figure out where my lighting limit is with my 2x (T5 Dimmables), 2x (T5 Full ON/OFF), and My 1x Kessil light.

I did back off, for a while, then went up, then backed off, and just recently am moving UP a bit (max 10%) each week. I think I'm quite low and can go higher since whatever was irritating my Zoa's is gone (Ampihpods or something else).

My Current Setting is as below.



I think I need to go a bit more on both Intensity and PhotoPeriod, since my Frogspawns used to be under MH lights, and now with the reduction in lighting, they are as happy. Zoa's are happy for first time, so I am being extra careful to work up slowly. Really slowly.

That the problem with this hobby. You sometimes can see the invisible things. Or sometimes things take time for a reaction.
I did rent a PAR Meter for a weekend, and that helped me understand my lights. PAR at all on, PAR at one on. But with UV it doesn't pick up on PAR Meter.

My new way with Lighting changes. Is RECORD SETTINGS (print them). Come back in a week and see if things are ok. Then increase a bit. Do all over again.
Tricky part for me with 3 sets of different lights is increase which one next. I think my Kessil is the strong one since it has the UV leds.
So I'm currently only increasing T5. I overshot the Kessil too many times and burned corals.

[Clown99]

love the setup. awesome reef

[Wally.B]

Update (Keep Increasing Lighting Slowly / Zoa's moved to Front & Main Lighting Exposure)

I must admit, I still haven't stabilized with respect to Lighting. I'm still slowly increasing, and corals appear to want more.

I think the Zoa's have acclimatized enough, so they have been moved to front of Tank (where they will get more direct lighting).

If they do well in the front, they will finally go on rocks permanently.

Some Zoa's doing we'll. One Not not. Two have faded away, or gotten eaten. These Corals baffle me.

Here is an Current photo.



I'm about to start Automatic Daily Calc/Alk Dosing, since till now it's been adjustment as needed.

The HawkFish, continues to have a large belly, even thought I feed him minimal. What the heck is he eating?

[Wally.B]

Aha! Found a couple of Zoa's pickers (Not Allowed!! Confined to sump)

So while doing an inspection this morning for new Zoa Location notice a couple of Zoa pickers.



Appears the Zebra Hermit, and Emerald crab may have been a possible cause of Zoa discomfort. This tank is very lightly feed with single Fish (HawkFish) so perhaps they pick everywhere to find food scapes.

Great Part is that simply lifting the Eggcrate FragTray and scooping them up was easy. They are now in sump where they won't be a nuisance anymore. We'll see if Zoa's do better.

Crabs will be fine in sump since I have a SeaWeed feeder in there.

[Mael]

this goes back to page one again with the amphipods, in 99% of cases the invert in question is either going after an already dying polyp, basically cleaning it even though the sloughing skin is what they are eating, or they are eating stuff between/under the polyps and it looks like they are going after them. They can and will definitely make them close by crawling on them, but they are not eating them. Have run all three of these crustaceans for years in Z/P dominated tanks with no issues. When polyps die it is usually from light burn, bacterial infection from fragging, Unkown other pest(nudis), etc

Now if you want no zoa discomfort at all, then anything but snails(and even then...) will crawl on zoas and irritate them. that said my frag tank is 85% Z/P and I have all those crustaceans in there, of course these are my experiences, there are rogues in every species....both inverts and fish.

your display looks great btw, especially the euphylia choices, love em.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by Mael

this goes back to page one again with the amphipods, in 99% of cases the invert in question is either going after an already dying polyp, basically cleaning it even though the sloughing skin is what they are eating, or they are eating stuff between/under the polyps and it looks like they are going after them. They can and will definitely make them close by crawling on them, but they are not eating them. Have run all three of these crustaceans for years in Z/P dominated tanks with no issues. When polyps die it is usually from light burn, bacterial infection from fragging, Unkown other pest(nudis), etc

Now if you want no zoa discomfort at all, then anything but snails(and even then...) will crawl on zoas and irritate them. that said my frag tank is 85% Z/P and I have all those crustaceans in there, of course these are my experiences, there are rogues in every species....both inverts and fish.

your display looks great btw, especially the euphylia choices, love em.

I hear your points. (Very valid) Emerald & Hermit will be put back eventually, and actually next day another Hermit was digging around exactly the same areas. I notice why. Food is getting trapped in the EggCrate holes, and that why they are there. After a good feeding, nothing like a Snooze in a Zoa Bed.

I was just being extra sensitive, since I want to place the Zoa's up on the rocks. Been babying them for a while to acclimatize them to my mystery lighting levels.

Once They are on rocks (hoping this weekend), and doing well, it's open game for crew come by and clean the Zoa's.

Yes the Euphulia's are one of my Favourites. The Green Frogspawn was one head 10+ years ago. Now it's like 80+ heads, and some have been sold due to limited space.

[Wally.B]

Zoa's on Journey UP

I've moved up the Zoa's to their future Placement Level.



Haven't attached them yet, BUT put them on EggCrate Tracks.

What I find interesting is I also moved the Acan's up a bit and to my surprise the puffed up really well. (I guess they need more lighting than they got on the bottom).

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by Mael

this goes back to page one again with the amphipods, in 99% of cases the invert in question is either going after an already dying polyp, basically cleaning it even though the sloughing skin is what they are eating, or they are eating stuff between/under the polyps and it looks like they are going after them. They can and will definitely make them close by crawling on them, but they are not eating them. Have run all three of these crustaceans for years in Z/P dominated tanks with no issues. When polyps die it is usually from light burn, bacterial infection from fragging, Unkown other pest(nudis), etc

Now if you want no zoa discomfort at all, then anything but snails(and even then...) will crawl on zoas and irritate them. that said my frag tank is 85% Z/P and I have all those crustaceans in there, of course these are my experiences, there are rogues in every species....both inverts and fish.

your display looks great btw, especially the euphylia choices, love em.

Just a follow up, and Emerald Crabs eating Corals.

My Emerald Crab is still in the Sump (Hasn't been returned to Zoa Tank).
The previous Emerald that was in this same sump grew massively compared to this new Emerald (since he was able to get access to much food flowing into the sump).
I put that Large Emerald into my SPS tank, since there is work for him there.
I expect the small Emerald to be very happy in the sump.

So I was at a LFS this weekend and in a holding tank were many Emeralds. They had Zoa's in that tank and I was shocked to see them all ripping apart the Zoa's. (Not just cleaning them, but ripping them apart). I GUESS THEY WERE BEING UNDERFED.

So after coming home I read up more about Emerald Crab and there are warnings if they don't get enough food (meaty foods) that they can convert to Coral eating (which mine may have).

I think I was underfeeding this tank (which only had the HawkFish), and it's possible my Crabs were doing more than just cleaning up the Zoa's.

Ever since removing the Hermit and Emerald last week, ALL my Zoa's are doing MUCH MUCH better (noticeable change after just a few days).

So until I decide to get more Fish and Feed this tank more, I'll stay away from any Crabs.
I'll just add more Snails as needed to control the little algae that does grow.
(However there is a turf like algae that I notice the Emerald did take care of, and we'll see how it does without the Emerald around).

[Rx79394]

hmm, glad things are going better now. It is interesting that you decided to remove the zebra hermit, I haven't read/seen anything that would indicate possible irritation.

I am sure the automatic alk dosing is helping a lot though! I too dose my tank every once in a while, and noticed my Mg was at 1140 while Alk was at 7. Shortly after making the adjustments all of my corals looked 10000x times better. This of course, could have been the placebo effect. I now am looking at doing an auto doser with a jabeo set-up.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by Rx79394

hmm, glad things are going better now. It is interesting that you decided to remove the zebra hermit, I haven't read/seen anything that would indicate possible irritation.

I am sure the automatic alk dosing is helping a lot though! I too dose my tank every once in a while, and noticed my Mg was at 1140 while Alk was at 7. Shortly after making the adjustments all of my corals looked 10000x times better. This of course, could have been the placebo effect. I now am looking at doing an auto doser with a jabeo set-up.

Yes, I put back the Zebra hermit, and to be safe, I throw in a few tiny pellets to sink to the bottom (not every day), so all the hermits have something to eat (other than Zoa's ). I may put back the Emerald crab, but he loves the sump.

Yes, I do agree with Dosing automatically, and this tank used to be dosed (Randy's A/B formula) but I borrowed the Dosing pumps for my SPS only tank, which needs it a lot more (for stability). LPS and Soft Corals can handle the little swings. And like you did, bringing back Alk will perk them up each time. It's either Dosing, or more frequent Water changes. But Alk/Calc dosing doesn't bring back lost trace elements, so I am switching my A/B dosing to better quality like (ESV) to include also some trace elements.

I also feed my Zoa's now once a week (Reef Roids, and Coral Frenzy). ONLY ONCE A WEEK (since any more, means algae).

And today, I just added a Algae Blenny to start picking at the little algae that is coming back (due to weekly Coral feedings, which are needed for Zoa's and Acans to keep them healthy. I learned that not feeding Zoa's makes them not too happy. Especially since I only have 1 fish)

[Wally.B]

Are These Colonial Hydroids Spreading all over my Tanks rocks?

I been feeding the Zoa's and that has helped Zoa's.

But I'm getting what appears to be Colonial Hyroids spreading over the tank. Kind of started when I also dosed ZeoVit Sponge Power.

Will try getting a more focused photo. but can anyone confirm what these are? I don't think they are Baby Zoa's.

[Wally.B]

Zoa and Hydroids (Appears I can't have one without the other).

So as this thread started, I haven't been able to keep Zoa's for years.

And now things have really taken off with the Zoa's like never before. I have a nice color mix and the tank is looking very promising (Zoa wise).

BUT with this feeding that I've been doing for the Zoa's it appears it's also feeding the Hydroids. Pretty sure the (Hydroids) probably hitchhiked with the Zoa pods I bought, but they never flourished till I started feeding the tank.

Tonight, I was starting to look into remedies for the Hydroids, but everything appears to be drastic measures (and most measure don't really work anyway).

I've also read that Hydroids could just be a cycle and they may go away.

Will continue to observe the Hydriod outbreak, but I think I need to continue to move forward with the Zoa's (and not stop feeding the tank, to stop the Hydroids).

Maybe if these Zoa's take off and cover the rocks, they could out compete the Hydriods and use up the nutrients to starve the Hydriods.

I do plan to put back the Emerald Crab, since I've read that they may eat Hydroids.

BTW. The Algae Blenny is gone. I figure the Hawkfish killed him, since there were fish particle floating in my tank a day after he disappeared.

[Wally.B]

Update.

I stopped Dosing the Zevit Sponge Power a week ago, and the Hyrdoid outbreak has stopped.

It's starting to look like Hydroids are actually shrinking.

I am target feeding corals very closely to not feed the tank suspended food.

I know hydroids will never go away, but if they remain under control and don't increase in size or quantity that if fine by me.

BTW. I got another larger Algae Blenny. This one is doing wonders. Cleaning all Algae patches so well, I am starting to worry he won't have enough to eat eventually. May have to start putting in some SeaWeed sheets.

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by Wally.B

I know hydroids will never go away, but if they remain under control and don't increase in size or quantity that if fine by me.

sure they will , like all animals they need the basics of things to survive restrict those things and they will surely die off , place a thick sheet of epoxy over the hydroids like a blanket , press down around on the outer edges like a pie and leave for a couple weeks , you can either remove the epoxy easily later or let corals grow over it carefull not to stab yourself with the hydroids they can be sharp

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by reefwars

sure they will , like all animals they need the basics of things to survive restrict those things and they will surely die off , place a thick sheet of epoxy over the hydroids like a blanket , press down around on the outer edges like a pie and leave for a couple weeks , you can either remove the epoxy easily later or let corals grow over it carefull not to stab yourself with the hydroids they can be sharp

Good idea, but they are kind of everywhere. Impossible to cover them. They are in nook and crannies. A polyp here and there. Covering with epoxy would make tank a visible mess, and use up a lot.

As I said they are thinning out. Not in quantity but each polyp size. I assume due to my effort to Target Feed corals.

I was considering another option. One of my Aquarium stores sell's a Aptasia Zapper. It a long stick with a metal pin at the end. A wire goes to a high votage transformer. You zap with high voltage any unwanted things like aptasia, mushrooms (they use it for incoming wild corals to clean them of unwanted hitchhikers). I called them today and they said it would work on Hydroids as well.

If thing get out of control I may get one, but no hurry. They are $50.

[Wally.B]

FINALLY (Got Lighting Setting figured out for ALL Corals to Like it!! ) :

So after months of tuning the lights to get all kinds of Corals to get Happy, I think I have reach a ideal setting.

I had issues with Zoa's not liking the Kessil, then LPS not having enough light, to other acclimatization challenges.

I make this programming change as below (to lower Kesil Intensity) during the time when T5's come on (T5 Full Pair, and T5 Dimmable Pair).

And kaboom!! All corals are Happy at the same time, all day.
Been like 3-4 days.

[Wally.B]

Added 6 Chromis Fish a couple of week ago (Tank Doing Better with Natural Nutrients)



I added 6 Blue Green Chromis ,which has sparked up tank activity.

Added an Algae Blenny who is keep the tank Algae free nicely.

I also put back the ATI Purple Plus bulb since Algae is gone from Algae Blenny, which is why the colors have improved.

Interesting part is the higher I place the Zoa's the better they are doing. So it appears I'm past acclimatization and can possible increase lighting. (But I've saving all the Light Settings, since I'm really tuned in right for health).

[Wally.B]

Appears the Nutrients from the Fish Load is Helping

So it's been a few weeks with the Extra BioLoad after adding the Blue/Green Chromis School.

They are eating quite a bit, and I can tell this is helping all the Corals.
I now Target Feed the Corals every other week.

[Sense of nature]

Look's great !
Congrats on succeeding in winning the battle & dialing things in.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by Sense of nature

Look's great !
Congrats on succeeding in winning the battle & dialing things in.

Thanks.

Tank continues to flourish. Got the confidence to purchase some high end Paly's & Zoa's (Darth Maul, Utter Chaos, Blue & Purple Hornets)

But that Finger Leather is just getting too big and shading some good Real Estate spots. (The price of progress )

[organism]

Originally Posted by reefwars

sure they will , like all animals they need the basics of things to survive restrict those things and they will surely die off , place a thick sheet of epoxy over the hydroids like a blanket , press down around on the outer edges like a pie and leave for a couple weeks , you can either remove the epoxy easily later or let corals grow over it carefull not to stab yourself with the hydroids they can be sharp

This. Also I forget the name but there's an additive that kills them too, I think maybe Fluke tabs.

I wouldn't underestimate hydroids, they can eat your tank and sting hard enough to kill some corals. I had those same ones and it took 3 years to get them all.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by organism

This. Also I forget the name but there's an additive that kills them too, I think maybe Fluke tabs.

I wouldn't underestimate hydroids, they can eat your tank and sting hard enough to kill some corals. I had those same ones and it took 3 years to get them all.

So how did you eradicate the Hydroids after 3 years?

Would love to find out if there is an Additive, but I doubt it.
Whatever would kill a Hyrdriod would have to hurt the other corals. I assume this solution would be a treatment done outside of tank.

I had a rock that was removable, and a blow torch singe did it. They never grew back (at least on that rock).

I have been trying to contain them and GOT one of the Aptasia Zappers. It's an Eletrode you place in the tank with a Titanium tip. There is a transformer and it will zap/vapourize anything in the tank. I have controller some Palays, and Mushroom with it (Works like a charm). It literally vaporizes a hairy mushroom, paly, anything made of liquid and flesh. I am careful with Palys since they can release toxins, so I run carbon in the system when zapping, and fine net catch any vapourized gunk (since it floats to top).

This link below is a similar model. Mine cost only $49.
https://www.tbaquatics.com/algae-cle...majano-zapper/

I used the zapper on the hydroids, and it works, but they always come back in a few weeks since their roots are deep. But it helps contain any further spreading.

[organism]

Originally Posted by Wally.B

So how did you eradicate the Hydroids after 3 years?

With reef putty, just kept puttying over them every time they popped up.

I had a rock that was removable, and a blow torch singe did it. They never grew back (at least on that rock).

That's why it took 3 years. I'd start on them asap since it's a whole different ball game once they spread to parts of your rocks that you can't see like the back of your tank.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by organism

With reef putty, just kept puttying over them every time they popped up.



That's why it took 3 years. I'd start on them asap since it's a whole different ball game once they spread to parts of your rocks that you can't see like the back of your tank.

I'm DOOMED!!!

I have spots of Hydroids in many place.

Places I can't reach easy.

Plus how much putty will I need. The stuff ain't cheap.

I know these Hyroids are aggressive, but can other corals fight back?
Will Palys/Zoas overgrown them? or will They kill the Palys/Zoas.