Return pump dilemma

[DanzReef]

Hi all! I'm getting back into the hobby and ran into a issue regarding my return pumps... So I have a 375g tank and currently have 2 BlueLine 40HDX external pumps that were recommended to me from my LFS so I went with them... Come to find out according to several other enthusiasts that these pumps aren't sufficient GPH for my tank. Was even told to just go with a cheap aquastation dc12000 pumps which have a suggested 3100gph each compared to my 1400gph and so ditch the AC pumps.... So with all that being said, input is greatly welcomed!

[Member No. 1]

People think they need a high thru-put thru their sump. This is not true. The sump is a place for any suspended solids (poop, food, etc...) to settle out. On a tank that big, I would use 2 good quality return pumps, Ecotech L2, Apex COR20, Red Dragon RD100 (personal favorite) and there are a few others. 2 pumps will give you redundancy.
The Blueline are a good pump, but are a power hog and loud.
Then go with wave pumps (4) MP 40's or (2) MP 60's for flow and circulation inside the tank.

[Cpeguero83]

Depends on your goals. As stated above, you don’t need high flow through your sump, unless you’re like me. I wanted my return to be a significant part of my tank flow because I didn’t want power heads inside the tank.

It also depends on your placement. My sump is in a basement fish room 40 feet away, so I did t have that many options. I’m running a reeflo hammerhead gold and getting around 1800 gph. Great, but loud.

I have a Royal exclusive rd3 80 watt on one closed loop and an abyzz a100 on the other. Both are great pumps, but rd3 is much cheaper (I got both used). Both are silent. Since they’re right under my display, I didn’t need a higher pressure pump and I needed both to be silent.

Some more details on your setup and needs would help with recommendations. Broadly, Abyzz and Royal Exclusive are fantastic, but pricey. I dont have experience with the other brands like ecotech, reef octopus, and sicce, though they are quite popular.


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[DanzReef]

Currently my setup will be using x2 Maxspect Gyre XF 350's and the sump is in the stand with 1 pump running directly into return and second shares/splits into manifold.

[five.five-six]

Originally Posted by Member No. 1

People think they need a high thru-put thru their sump. This is not true. The sump is a place for any suspended solids (poop, food, etc...) to settle out. On a tank that big, I would use 2 good quality return pumps, Ecotech L2, Apex COR20, Red Dragon RD100 (personal favorite) and there are a few others. 2 pumps will give you redundancy.
The Blueline are a good pump, but are a power hog and loud.
Then go with wave pumps (4) MP 40's or (2) MP 60's for flow and circulation inside the tank.

This!

I can vouch for the Echotec. I’m not an Echotech fanboy but that pump is the bees knees. Also, their dosing pumps are very nice.

[DanzReef]

So do you guys suggest that I ditch the bluelines because they're ac pumps or simply not enough flow??

[Member No. 1]

Originally Posted by DanzReef

So do you guys suggest that I ditch the bluelines because they're ac pumps or simply not enough flow??

We need more info.

Where is your sump?

What do you plan on keeping? FOWLR? Softies? LPS? SPS?

[DanzReef]

Originally Posted by Member No. 1

We need more info.

Where is your sump?

What do you plan on keeping? FOWLR? Softies? LPS? SPS?

Sump under the tank in the stand, will be a mixed reef tank.

[Member No. 1]

Originally Posted by DanzReef

Sump under the tank in the stand, will be a mixed reef tank.

In that case, ditch the blue lines. Way to noisy, induce to much heat, power hogs.

Ecotech, Apex COR 20, Red Dragon. Whatever, but spend the money on a good pump(s) and you'll only need to buy once.

Again, I would go with 2 on separate return lines.

[DanzReef]

Originally Posted by Member No. 1

In that case, ditch the blue lines. Way to noisy, induce to much heat, power hogs.

Ecotech, Apex COR 20, Red Dragon. Whatever, but spend the money on a good pump(s) and you'll only need to buy once.

Again, I would go with 2 on separate return lines.

Damn... I was hoping to hear good news as Ill have to redo all the plumbing and out of the $ for the pumps... Oh well

[Cpeguero83]

You may not have to completely redo your plumbing. I think all the pumps mentioned can be run externally.

If you’re a bit clever with your plumbing, and want to save a bit of money, you might be able to get just one dc pump and keep one of the bluelines as a backup. Depends on how you want to handle your backup plan - 2 return pumps means if one fails, sump keeps limping along while you fix/replace the other. Single pump with a backup requires you to be around to swap out the pump….. in your case, I’d recommend the 2 return pumps route, though it may be more expensive.


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[five.five-six]

It’s not that DC pumps are inherently better, but most of the available better pumps are DC.


DC is nice because you can adjust the output and tune your system for silence and efficiently, It’s nice to have more tools than just a gate valve and the option of re-plumbing.

[Vinny Kreyling]

The only downside to DC pumps is the fact that most do not do well with head pressure.

[five.five-six]

Originally Posted by Vinny Kreyling

The only downside to DC pumps is the fact that most do not do well with head pressure.

They are more expensive, they are more complicated and a well build AC pump is inherently more efficient.

[DanzReef]

Originally Posted by Cpeguero83

You may not have to completely redo your plumbing. I think all the pumps mentioned can be run externally.

If you’re a bit clever with your plumbing, and want to save a bit of money, you might be able to get just one dc pump and keep one of the bluelines as a backup. Depends on how you want to handle your backup plan - 2 return pumps means if one fails, sump keeps limping along while you fix/replace the other. Single pump with a backup requires you to be around to swap out the pump….. in your case, I’d recommend the 2 return pumps route, though it may be more expensive.


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Yea I think Im going with 2 Core20's.

[DanzReef]

Originally Posted by Vinny Kreyling

The only downside to DC pumps is the fact that most do not do well with head pressure.

Right, but my sump is in the stand so wont be much head pressure appose to having it go up a floor where then a AC pump would be the best option there I'd say.

[Vinny Kreyling]

OK - so under the stand I would look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQpXdcKTw_Y&t=16s
I have worked with this fellow in years past, nice guy & a 5 year warranty on a pump is not to be dismissed.

[fishgate]

I keep coming back to Eheim pumps. They simply never fail.

[moondoggy4]

Fluval SP4 pump.

https://www.googleadservices.com/pag...gQIARBN&adurl=

[Roamer]

Originally Posted by fishgate

I keep coming back to Eheim pumps. They simply never fail.

I had to laugh at this. Simply because TODAY I had my 25 year old Eheim 1048 give up the ghost (thankfully via tripping the GFCI instead of releasing the magic smoke) while transferring some salt water into my main tank. It served long and well. But it DID fail eventually!

[Roamer]

Originally Posted by five.five-six

They are more expensive, they are more complicated and a well build AC pump is inherently more efficient.

I would have stopped at the first two (expensive/complex). "inherently more efficient"? Yeah, about that. Small, single phase induction motors are about the least efficient electric motors there are. Especially compared to BLDC motors. The little AC power heads are worse, but...

Look at the specs for a 1/15 HP (i.e.: 50w motor) Dolphin Amp Master pump. Only 50w of work output, but pulling an average of 1.21amps at 120V, or 145w electrical input. That works out to about 35% efficient. There are worse, but that isn't great.

A generic BLDC (aka: "DC Motor") pump is going to range between 60% and 80% electrical efficiency at the motor depending on operating point (three phase motors are always a LOT more efficient than single phase motors). The 24VDC (or whatever DC power supply) is going to be between 90 and 95% efficient these days. So worst case, you are looking at .9 * .6 = .54 or 54% efficient. And could be as good as .95 * .8 = .76 or 76% efficient. There will be a small loss in the controller as well, but that is really low these days (notice how small the controllers are and the fact that generally don't get hot? Efficiency).

The BLDCs motors are just a lot more efficient than a good fractional hp single phase induction motor and a LOT more efficient than the (shaded pole?) AC power head type motors.

But the DEFINITELY are more expensive and more complex (more things to go wrong). But they are not "inherently" more efficient.

[moondoggy4]

I just put a Eheim 1262 on my 120 gallon tank, it is really powerful for my tank, I have too have a very slow rate of return due to the fact I have a Maggi muffler return. So I am using a gate valve to throttle down the pump. I am hoping for free so to speak heat off, so I do not have to use 500 watts for heaters.