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Unread 05/10/2015, 08:09 AM   #1051
Mikefromaz
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Yes I am glugging Stabilty into my tank as well. It is at least something positive right?


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Unread 05/10/2015, 08:52 AM   #1052
Butchhe
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I removed the sand bed from my tank about 6 months ago and did a large water change in the process. I left the tank as a bare bottom for about 2 months, then washed the sand extensively (it stunk) and put it back in the tank with another large water change. Within a short period of time, the dinos took over the sand bed again and it started to look like crap again. This was long before I started the dosing regime.


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Unread 05/10/2015, 08:53 AM   #1053
Montireef
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I don't see how dosing Seed or any kind of heterotrophic bacteria could help fighting dinos. In fact, most of dino populations use bacteria (but no in a parasitic way).

Do NOT use PO4 reducing resins if you are fighting dinos.


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Unread 05/10/2015, 05:15 PM   #1054
Mikefromaz
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Phos. reducing resins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montireef View Post
I don't see how dosing Seed or any kind of heterotrophic bacte.a could help fighting dinos. In fact, most of dino populations use bacteria (but no in a parasitic way).

Do NOT use PO4 reducing resins if you are fighting dinos.
I am learning here..... I am using Phosguard. I feel like I must have missed something. Why no PO4 reducers?


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Unread 05/10/2015, 06:32 PM   #1055
karimwassef
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The theory is that dinos thrive in low phosphate because they take the place of algae. They need less than algae, but they're poisonous to snails... Creating chaos.

So if you go dirty tank method, you need some phosphate to create algae competition.


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Unread 05/10/2015, 06:33 PM   #1056
karimwassef
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I run phosguard too but I'm going clean tank method... Heavy UV , chaeto and skimming


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Unread 05/10/2015, 07:06 PM   #1057
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Phosphate reducers work in some cases with blooms like this, but not in others. You could try the approach. If the problem starts getting worse, removing the phosphate binder is easy to do.


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Unread 05/10/2015, 07:26 PM   #1058
karimwassef
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If you're going to go clean, I recommend going heavy UV and skimming too. I also do water changes, carbon and full light in my refugium. I've also dosed hydrogen peroxide to kill anything in the water column. I also use small crabs and urchins to dislodge the dinos on the rocks. Big snails end up dying.

If it's brown algae, the phosphate removal would be good. If it's real dinos, you could go backwards unless you have a killing agent.


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Unread 05/10/2015, 08:50 PM   #1059
Mikefromaz
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I have a coralife UV unit that needs a bulb. I will get one. I am using s coralife 125 super skimmer with a brand new pump I installed two days ago. My original pump burned out after 11 years so I can't complain. It seems foolhardy that I thought I could get by with a Maxijet 1200. It also failed last week so I finally got the original. My tank stats with the exeption of nitrates at 15ppm and pH at 8.4 seem normal enough. Hanna checker says PO4=0.01, SG=1.025, calc=480, dkH=9 and no silicates. There is a slight question in my mind though. This goop invading my tank is cinnamon brown trailing a slimy streamer here and there BUT it shows no bubbles whatsoever. Does that mean anything?


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Unread 05/10/2015, 09:24 PM   #1060
karimwassef
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No bubbles at all? Even bacteria will generate some bubbles


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Unread 05/10/2015, 10:18 PM   #1061
Mikefromaz
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I know it sounds odd. I agree when the tank was normal there was always bubbles rising out of the sand bed. I am going to take a hard look tomorrow a couple of hours after the lights come on.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 05:47 AM   #1062
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After looking closely I am sure there are zero bubbles either from the brown slime or trapped in the sand bed. I can't help but think that the Marine Algaefix must have had a profound effect on the entire tank biotrope. In any case I have begun dosing vodka. Hopefully between that, the Stabilty and the new skimmer pump things will turn around.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 07:47 AM   #1063
karimwassef
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I'm dino free again - clean method.

I'm going to leave my UV on for another week, then go intermittent (4 hrs off a day) as I do with my skimmer.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 07:52 AM   #1064
Mikefromaz
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Karimwassef....great news! I am encouraged.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 08:34 AM   #1065
Montireef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I run phosguard too but I'm going clean tank method... Heavy UV , chaeto and skimming
Then forget about chaeto.
If chaeto can survive, dinos will absolutely thrive and laugh at you.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 09:56 AM   #1066
karimwassef
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Nope. I have the proof. I have chaeto growing and dinos in check. Dinos are everywhere, they just need to be controlled and put back into a minimal population.

Chaeto and dinos are not tied by any means. Plenty keep chaeto without issues.

Look - phosphate is needed by all organisms to thrive. It's a question of degree. The corals make the most out of it under my halides in the DT. The remainder gets consumed by my chaeto in my sump under LED and CFL.

As long as there is a good balance of phosphates and nitrates, the system works. If it goes off balance, dinos come back.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 10:00 AM   #1067
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By the way, dinos live in the water column by night! Chaeto doesn't.

UV critically kills dinos and skimming removes their waste product. Chaeto grows with no issue due to UV or skimming.

My war tools are directed at killing the dinos, but chaeto is an ally unaffected by those tools.

I'm not concerned with phosphate levels or even nitrates for that matter. It's a physical assault to curb the population of the infesting protozoan parasite.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 01:36 PM   #1068
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I think that tanks tend to react differently, and so I would hesitate to predict whether a reasonable approach is going to work or fail. Chaetomorpha does grow well in our systems. The UV approach is interesting. I'd like to see more results from it. That's a fairly novel approach to nutrient export.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 01:41 PM   #1069
karimwassef
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UV doesn't export nutrients. It kills the dinos. The skimmer exports their dead remains.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 04:10 PM   #1070
Montireef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Nope. I have the proof. I have chaeto growing and dinos in check. Dinos are everywhere, they just need to be controlled and put back into a minimal population.

Chaeto and dinos are not tied by any means. Plenty keep chaeto without issues.

Look - phosphate is needed by all organisms to thrive. It's a question of degree. The corals make the most out of it under my halides in the DT. The remainder gets consumed by my chaeto in my sump under LED and CFL.

As long as there is a good balance of phosphates and nitrates, the system works. If it goes off balance, dinos come back.
I have to disagree. If your chaeto is growing, then your system is not ULNS, you are not hurting dinoflagellates, you are still feeding them and killing other microorganisms that would prey upon the dinos.

To starve the dinoflagellates you must lower nutrients in a way no other organism could make it, specially chaetomorpha which nutrient requirements are much higher.

I have to say that what you are doing does not make any sense to me and as soon your system lose balance, dinos will come back, with rage because there won't be any other organism in your tank to compete.

If you have decided to follow the "nuke path" you are not walking the right direction mate, just another similar path that won't lead you to a safe harbour.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 06:28 PM   #1071
karimwassef
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I'm clean in 7 days. That's data.

I don't plan on running a ULNS. Dinos can thrive with very little nutrients. They live in the state that has less nutrients than algae can live in. So you either raise nutrients (dirty) and allow algae to compete or nuke them (clean), independent of nutrient levels.

This isn't an algae. It's a protozoan infestation. A disease.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 06:29 PM   #1072
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It's like getting marine velvet or ich. You kill the disease.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 08:06 PM   #1073
bertoni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
UV doesn't export nutrients. It kills the dinos. The skimmer exports their dead remains.
Right, that's what I was thinking. I should have been more precise.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 10:33 PM   #1074
karimwassef
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I see. The idea being that UV can break down floating algae, protozoans and other plankton into DOAs for skimmer export - outside the dino flare up...

I'm certainly going to try it. Between my crabs dislodging the offending material and eating my algae, and the UV breaking it up for my skimmer - my tank looks great.

I suspect that I'll have to feed more this way though. I'm essentially shortening the lifespan of my plankton mass.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 10:36 PM   #1075
karimwassef
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By the way, the UV flow must be sloooooow.

Protozoans are large and need more exposure to be destroyed. I run mine at 300-400gph as a secondary return. That's in a 380g DT, 660g full volume. It took a week of constant UV and skimming.


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